2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, parfait said:

They are alike in that they are both stuck in between. Wiseman was a 7-footer who fancied himself a perimeter player, but wasn't good enough at it. Sarr is a super-mobile 7-footer who is agile enough to be a perimeter player, but who is likely to not be agile or skilled enough to stay on the perimeter over time, and will need a good amount of time to develop the big man skills and girth to play down low. They are both stuck in between what they are good at, and what we want them to be good at. That's why I'm just not confident in the time and yearly cost it will take for Sarr's development to possibly arrive 3+ years from now.

Wiseman was never a shooter.  He never had perimeter skills.  That’s one of the reasons he has been a bust.  He’s a traditional big who doesn’t fit the modern NBA.  

[Final_quest]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

But you're saying something other than what I was responding to.

I'm sayin there are no sure things, Clingan included. 

I know, but that is every draft.  My main point is “no sure things” applies less to Clingan than almost anyone in this draft.  

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I know, but that is every draft.  My main point is “no sure things” applies less to Clingan than almost anyone in this draft.  

Clingan is anything but a safe pick as he is a 7-footer who has already had foot issues, has mobility issues, and there should be a lot more questions about how he fits in the modern NBA.  

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, parfait said:

I'm saying I would rather have a bigger, better, stronger, better-passing version of Walker Kessler than a 3/4 tweener with hardly any big man skills who could just as easily turn into James Wiseman rather than Evan Mobley.

Walker Kessler had a tremendous rookie year when he had Mike Conley. Let's keep it real, with players like Lively and Kessler, you need that PG who can create their food for them. Kessler rookie year was better than any of our bigs this year by a significant margin. 

Personally, I think Kessler is a better defender. The difference is offensively, Kessler is worse than Gobert. Whereas Clingan is clearly better offensively than Gobert in some areas. I do wish Clingan is better at put backs, his PnR finishing could be better, and I would like if he has more stamina and work his legs which I think causes his issues but I see him even right now as way more effective than Wiseman for winning Basketball, right now. 

I don't believe there is an Evan Mobley in this draft or anyone close. Mobley cleared everyone in this class for me. I would easily lean to taking him 1st overall. 

Edited June 5 by NBASupes

[JTB]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Clingan is anything but a safe pick as he is a 7-footer who has already had foot issues, has mobility issues, and there should be a lot more questions about how he fits in the modern NBA.  

We don’t know how these players are going to truly turn out but the only truth in what you wrote here is the foot injuries is a legitimate issue however since there are rumors of teams wanting to move up to get Clingan the injury is likely not real issue.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

We don’t know how these players are going to truly turn out but the only truth in what you wrote here is the foot injuries is a legitimate issue however since there are rumors of teams wanting to move up to get Clingan the injury is likely not real issue.

He doesn't have mobility issues. 

Foot issues are something that I am interested in. As I've said about Clingan before. I think he needs some lower body work like Myles Turner before he entered the NBA. 

That's my big issue with Clingan. 

To me, he's a reach at 1, then again, I think everyone in this draft is a reach at 1. Risacher is probably the most safe guy just due to his current floor and prototype. 

[parfait]

I think it says a lot that a team with a great history of talent evaluation like Memphis would like to trade up for Clingan.

[NBASupes]

If I had to compare Clingan, six players come up for me

The 1st, Vlade Divac, strong low post player with a terrific passing and shooting touch. Weaker legs so they get moved and effected on both ends by it. Both are tremendous off ball movers

2nd, Mason Plumlee, he's not the athlete Mason is but he's not far when you consider his height and size. Both go all out and play extremely hard and they do not play at a pace at all. 

3rd, Clint Capela, young Clint was a terrific screener who set all types of screens, showcased excellent screen IQ and had a nice feel. Both really know how to go into pockets where they end up open for dunks using their athletic ability. Capela was more athletic but Clingan makes up for that with sheer size difference. 

4th, Domantas Sabonis, this is more of a shades thing as Sabonis has Shades of Divac in his game but he's just superior offensively. I think Sabonis is superior offensively as well as a long term prospect. 

5th, Rudy Gobert. Another shades guy. I don't believe he will be as good defending in space as Rudy even if he shows better flashes than Rudy did as a prospect. Rudy was just too weak as a prospect. Clingan is far more polished, but I am not sure the defensive upside to be Rudy is there. Kessler to me has the upside to be a better Rudy defensively. I am not sure Clingan has that but Clingan is better as a rim protector as a prospect by a mile just due to his sheer size and NBA readiness.

6th, more of an impact comp but Joakim Noah comes up in his charts. The first player I've had Noah come up for since Noah. Noah really impacted winning even if he wasn't a primary star, ever.

 

Strengths 

Passing

Low post offense

Big man Movement 

Screening

Rebounding

Athleticism for size

Upper body strength

NBA readiness

Plays extremely hard

Day 1 impact, especially in the right situation.

Elite impact out of college and played in an elite system in college and shined at it. Shades of Joakim Noah.

 

Weaknesses

Self creation on offense

Lower body concerns

Put backs

PnR finishing

Has to do a better just of handling contact for size

Stamina

Has a tremendous touch but is very inconsistent at shooting. I think the lower body strength impact this

Doesn't play at a pace

FT shooting is inconsistent even if form and touch is there. There is too much upside for him to be truly under 70% long term. I see a lot of young Al Horford in this area. 

Didn't play a ton of minutes which shows on overall impact charts. 

[theheroatl]

It’s fun debating but Hawks aren’t trading #1 and have Sarr 1A and Risacher 1B

Edited June 5 by theheroatl

[NBASupes]

Just now, theheroatl said:

It’s fun debating but Hawks aren’t trading #1 and have Sarr 1A and Risacher 1B

Sarr is not 1 on their list. Risacher is and they are willing to move down to land Clingan 

[KB21]

43 minutes ago, JTB said:

We don’t know how these players are going to truly turn out but the only truth in what you wrote here is the foot injuries is a legitimate issue however since there are rumors of teams wanting to move up to get Clingan the injury is likely not real issue.

There are clear mobility issues and questions about his fit in the modern NBA since he cannot space the floor.  Not to the extent of Zach Edey, but those questions are there.  

[deester11]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Sarr is not 1 on their list. Risacher is and they are willing to move down to land Clingan 

The FO should be wearing clown hats then.  Risacher has azz hat written all over him.  For Supes concerns about the support structure for Sarr, Risacher is gonna need the ghost of "grow a pair of creativity" for Risacher.  He's safe and gross all at the same time.

[terrell]

2 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Clingan has weak ankles

Thats my worry with him

He didnt play many min in College..

And he kinda moves like a foot injury waiting to happen...

I wouldn't be upset if we could get him at 4 though.. And Knect, Buzelis, Castle, or Holland at 8...

That's if we make a deal with SA..

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Risacher 1B

1Z 

[theheroatl]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Sarr is not 1 on their list. Risacher is and they are willing to move down to land Clingan 

Yes he is. They aren't moving down for Clingan.

[Macknsweetjones]

First time getting the number 1 pick …they not trading it..def not for some slow footed ass center that prolly won’t average more than 10 points a game and lane clog

[AtLaS]

10 hours ago, terrell said:

Thats my worry with him

He didnt play many min in College..

And he kinda moves like a foot injury waiting to happen...

I wouldn't be upset if we could get him at 4 though.. And Knect, Buzelis, Castle, or Holland at 8...

That's if we make a deal with SA..

Agreed, I really like Clingan's passing and feel for the game.  But he really worries me as an injury risk.  It's just like it takes so much effort for him to move around and hasn't played big minutes and has had some feet injuries in the past.  The other big men in this draft move a lot more effortlessly.  82 games + playoffs is a LOT.  I'm just worried he can hold up.  That and the fact that he can't shoot at all just ends it for me.

[Jody23]

 

[capstone21]

Apparently Devin Vessell is off limits for SA.  If that is the case, I hope we don't make a deal with them.  He is the player I want back not Keldon Johnson who can't even hold on to his starting spot because he can't defend.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

 

Shut them dogs up, Bawb!

 Whoooo lettha dawgs owt?  Me!

Bawb out here pushing the trade-down propaganda.