2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[RedDawg#8]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

There's a lot in here to respond to but let's go easy. Have you personally watched the video of him actively avoiding contact when setting screens? Dude is really passive on contact, even against smaller players.

“The video” no.

Multiple videos of him, yes. 

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Typical Hawks man.  So hard to root for this team sometimes.   I desparately hope this is all smoke

Squawk smoke just smoke it. 

[KB21]

Knecht with Clingan is not going to be good.  He can shoot, but he's 23 with limited upside.  He is not a POA defender, which is what you will need around Clingan to have a successful drop coverage scheme since he can't play any other ball screen defense.  To top it off, you are going to add another guy who isn't a POA defender in Ingram?  Then you are going to have Ingram's mid-range game clashing with Clingan clogging up the lane because he can't play on the perimeter.  

[Spud2nique]

I don’t give a damn what the Hawks FO might be watching. Sarr the first pick and it’s not even close. Draft Sarr AND KEEP HIM.. 

[Jody23]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Squawk smoke just smoke it. 

I sincerely hope you're right!

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Knecht with Clingan is not going to be good.  He can shoot, but he's 23 with limited upside.  He is not a POA defender, which is what you will need around Clingan to have a successful drop coverage scheme since he can't play any other ball screen defense.  To top it off, you are going to add another guy who isn't a POA defender in Ingram?  Then you are going to have Ingram's mid-range game clashing with Clingan clogging up the lane because he can't play on the perimeter.  

This feels really ugly as far as wing defense:

Trae / Bufkin

Bogi / Knecht

Ingram / Vit

JJ / Nance

Clingan / OO

(Assumes Sothron scenario of drafting Clingan / Knecht and trading Murray and CC for Ingram and Nance).

(Edit:  I think this is a better team than we had this year fwiw.  But then you are paying Ingram $50M because you can't afford to lose him and you are over a barrell.)

[AtLaS]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Knecht with Clingan is not going to be good.  He can shoot, but he's 23 with limited upside.  He is not a POA defender, which is what you will need around Clingan to have a successful drop coverage scheme since he can't play any other ball screen defense.  To top it off, you are going to add another guy who isn't a POA defender in Ingram?  Then you are going to have Ingram's mid-range game clashing with Clingan clogging up the lane because he can't play on the perimeter.  

Yeah let's surround Trae with more non-defensive players.  We already have the veteran version of Knecht (Bogi) and a young prospect version of Knecht (AJ). 

Had AJ stayed in college he would have put up 20 ppg this past year on good 3pt%, without question.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

So something like:

Buzelis / Ware

Castle / Edey

Ware / Knecht

Holland / Edey

Etc.  This group feels like a group that will end up being 50% hit and 50% bust.  Tough to tell which will be which.  

Seems like we'd be better off trading down and getting a future pick from a team expected to be bad.   (Maybe the protection could include the ability to pass on it if it isn't a good enough pick.)

There are some real possibilities in there and they'd be fair value out of the original pick. Good draft year with a legit #1 option....I'm not trading down but in a crap shoot year, 2 shots better than 1, especially if the 1 is an unknown. 

This isn't like the Luka year. There were 6 legit #1's that year. Most of that draft class top 10 would go #1 this year. Biggest issue with the Luka/Trae deal wasn't Luka vs Trae. Its what we did with the 2nd acquired pick.  Neither Luka nor Trae exist this year (unless scouts are wrong on Edey and even then, he has a ceiling).  That 7/14+ future 1st from Portland is very tempting (to me), especially considering we don't have our own pick for 3 more years.

[AtLaS]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

This feels really ugly as far as wing defense:

Trae / Bufkin

Bogi / Knecht

Ingram / Vit

JJ / Nance

Clingan / OO

(Assumes Sothron scenario of drafting Clingan / Knecht and trading Murray and CC for Ingram and Nance).

I'd rather just keep Murray and have a bad fit than trade him for Ingram as the centerpiece.  Murray has value and we could at least get some future picks for him.

Ingram at 50 million is a negative.  I'd rather not have him on the team, than have him on the team making 50 million.  He also misses a ton of games, and only plays like 55 games a year.

So in a Murray for Ingram package we give up a great PG who is a borderline all-star, for the opportunity to overpay an injury prone, non all-star $50/year?  That's a joke.

[Hawkish]

37 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Risacher is the top prospect at this point by most NBA FO and not Sarr. 

I think everyone here should be mentally prepared we trade the #1 pick. I think it is likely we trade with the Spurs for 4 and 8 and they take Risacher. We will take Clingan at 4 and someone like Knecht at 8 to give Trae a shooter. 

I think the Pels trade in some fashion will take place where we move Murray and Capela and get Ingram plus other things back. 

Goodness — Just keep the pick and draft Risacher…. I don’t see the point of the Pelicans trade.  

[thecampster]

6 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

“The video” no.

Multiple videos of him, yes. 

I posted a video of him showing lots of possessions. Some of them good and included the not so good. There is a 4 possession stretch where commits a charge, bricks a 3, gets blocked at the rim by a stiff and then catches a pass and immediately travels.  In that same video there are many instances of him ghosting the pick or committing an offensive foul moving too soon.  He'd need a full season at College Park just to fix his pick setting instincts alone but he bails at contact on setting the pick. Avoids it on instinct. Its legions worse than anything we have on the current roster. Gueye is much better than him at setting picks. In the NBL he could get away with that off the bench. NBA, setting picks for Trae/Murray....uh..no!

[KB21]

The Hawks will ultimately regret passing on Sarr if they do it.

[KB21]

I must have missed when setting a screen was a more important skill than shooting or being able to defend in space.

[Jody23]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The Hawks will ultimately regret passing on Sarr if they do it.

I still remember d*ck Vitale's voice the moment the Hawks passed on Chris Paul for Marvin Williams.  He said the Hawks would live to regret it and they did.  They're gonna do this to us again, huh?

[AtLaS]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

I must have missed when setting a screen was a more important skill than shooting or being able to defend in space.

It's also the easiest skill to learn.  It's impossible for Clingan to "learn" to defend in space.  And bad FT shooters rarely turn into good FT shooters or jumpshooters.

It's just a bad argument.   

[AHF]

Just now, AtLaS said:

I'd rather just keep Murray and have a bad fit than trade him for Ingram as the centerpiece.  Murray has value and we could at least get some future picks for him.

Ingram at 50 million is a negative.  I'd rather not have him on the team, than have him on the team making 50 million.  He also misses a ton of games, and only plays like 55 games a year.

So in a Murray for Ingram package we give up a great PG who is a borderline all-star, for the opportunity to overpay an injury prone, non all-star $50/year?  That's a joke.

It makes no sense to me because I don't view Ingram as a max player and fully expect him to demand a max contract and think the odds of him getting a huge deal are high because PPG still drives salary.

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

There are some real possibilities in there and they'd be fair value out of the original pick. Good draft year with a legit #1 option....I'm not trading down but in a crap shoot year, 2 shots better than 1, especially if the 1 is an unknown. 

This isn't like the Luka year. There were 6 legit #1's that year. Most of that draft class top 10 would go #1 this year. Biggest issue with the Luka/Trae deal wasn't Luka vs Trae. Its what we did with the 2nd acquired pick.  Neither Luka nor Trae exist this year (unless scouts are wrong on Edey and even then, he has a ceiling).  That 7/14+ future 1st from Portland is very tempting (to me), especially considering we don't have our own pick for 3 more years.

Volume of lower selections historically doesn't work out well at all.  This is more viable this year if the FO concludes that there are no top level talents and so everyone is more like a historical #10 pick.  But you better be right that there are no stars in this draft or right in that you draft them.  Passing on a star after winning the #1 pick would be a PR nightmare surpassed only by the scenario where you trade the pick and that star gets selected with that exact pick.

[AtLaS]

2 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I still remember d*ck Vitale's voice the moment the Hawks passed on Chris Paul for Marvin Williams.  He said the Hawks would live to regret it and they did.  They're gonna do this to us again, huh?

We also traded Pau for Shareef, we picked Shelden over Roy, we traded Luka.  But wait that wasn't enough, let's do it all over again!

[macdaddy]

Sarr seems like a massive talent just dropped in our laps and we're going to over think it.  Already has skills on both sides of the floor that just need polishing.  Needs some bulk and coaching up.  But there is really nothing that isn't in his wheel house.  Doesn't mean he'll get there but at least it's possible.  

[KB21]

Just now, macdaddy said:

Sarr seems like a massive talent just dropped in our laps and we're going to over think it.  Already has skills on both sides of the floor that just need polishing.  Needs some bulk and coaching up.  But there is really nothing that isn't in his wheel house.  Doesn't mean he'll get there but at least it's possible.  

I'm 100% prepared for them to take Clingan at #1 if they can't trade down.  It's going to suck.

[NekiEcko]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

This feels really ugly as far as wing defense:

Trae / Bufkin

Bogi / Knecht

Ingram / Vit

JJ / Nance

Clingan / OO

(Assumes Sothron scenario of drafting Clingan / Knecht and trading Murray and CC for Ingram and Nance).

(Edit:  I think this is a better team than we had this year fwiw.  But then you are paying Ingram $50M because you can't afford to lose him and you are over a barrell.)

Yeah, that is straight ughhhhh right there.

and I dont think Trae will sign off on something like that, no Herb, no additional pick from NO, trading down and etc etc etc

Can I get off this train please?  I cant take this team anymore.