2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, Afro said:

You and I definitely share the "f*** the east" sentiment lol. 

There are only 4 teams I respect as being clearly better than us on paper. 

Boston-no stipulations. There is nothing we can do this offseason to match that roster on paper. 

Sixers-IF they're fully healthy. This is the closest one though. 

Bucks-IF fully healthy. 

Knicks-now that they have OG. 

Everybody else? f*** em, square up Lil b's. Caw caw. 

 

Sixers are fugazy to me.  It's always, "If JoeLLLL is healthy in the playoffs this time... watch out!"

Well, the dude is never healthy in the playoffs.  And all he'll be next year is older and more injury prone.

What's left there to believe in?  Maxey?  He's closer to a 'dime-a-dozen, more usage = more numbers' player than he is to a 'prime-Wade carrying Shaq to a title'. 

Just my two sense. 

[AHF]

56 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I like this plan and would be really excited if we pulled it off.  My problem is I don't think NO does that deal.  @Mikey mentioned we need to throw in the #8 pick to make it work.  We only get the #8 pick by trading with the Spurs.  

There's also a big question about where we would land against the cap.  My guess is it would be similar to @thecampster's break down where we would be close to the 2nd apron AFTER we do these transactions.  So there is likely not gonna be room to use the MLE and TPE at all.    

If we have to add the #8 pick, a deal with NO might not work or maybe they can move Ingram somewhere else to get the value they want.  That deal is about Herb for me and DJM is a massive upgrade for them over Ingram because of future salary.

On the cap, just thinking off the top of my head I don’t think there is much change.  We are giving up more than $60M and getting back less than $60M if my thinking is correct because Ingram is something like $36M, Herb $12M, and Nance something like $12M too.  DJM is like $23M, Hunter $20M, CC $20M.  Those are not real numbers since I’m not going to open multiple windows on my phone right now but I think it should not increase our payroll meaningfully and might even decrease it.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

If we have to add the #8 pick, a deal with NO might not work or maybe they can move Ingram somewhere else to get the value they want.  That deal is about Herb for me and DJM is a massive upgrade for them over Ingram because of future salary.

On the cap, just thinking off the top of my head I don’t think there is much change.  We are giving up more than $60M and getting back less than $60M if my thinking is correct because Ingram is something like $36M, Herb $12M, and Nance something like $12M too.  DJM is like $23M, Hunter $20M, CC $20M.  Those are not real numbers since I’m not going to open multiple windows on my phone right now but I think it should not increase our payroll meaningfully and might even decrease it.

I still think NO is going to continue to request OO in the deal, which makes that deal a no go for me.  

[JTB]

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

Ingram is not a bad defender. He's average. His wingspan and height help him out a lot.

It’s unfortunate that some won’t just do their own research about Ingrams improved defense that last two seasons.

it’s not hard to find and the pelicans took leaps defensively this season with his contribution to defense being a new focal point for him.

 

https://clutchpoints.com/pelicans-boasting-brandon-ingram-dialed-up-defensive-intensity

 

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

It’s unfortunate that some won’t just do their own research about Ingrams improved defense that last two seasons.

it’s not hard to find and the pelicans took leaps defensively this season with his contribution to defense being a new focal point for him.

 

https://clutchpoints.com/pelicans-boasting-brandon-ingram-dialed-up-defensive-intensity

 

He's worth a shot for the better fit and the chance to see if Quin can instill newer/better habits in his shot diet.  If it doesn't work, that's okay.  DJ sure as hell isn't working and Ingram will still have value elsewhere.  If we get Herb in the deal (tall order), Ingram is house money.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

He's worth a shot for the better fit and the chance to see if Quin can instill newer/better habits in his shot diet.  If it doesn't work, that's okay.  DJ sure as hell isn't working and Ingram will still have value elsewhere.  If we get Herb in the deal (tall order), Ingram is house money.

Disagree.  Ingram is an albatross, and we should get more out of the deal for taking him off their hands.  

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Disagree.  Ingram is an albatross, and we should get more out of the deal for taking him off their hands.  

He's not an albatross right now and won't be until someone offers him a massive maximum contract.  If we get Herb Jones, that's plenty more anyways.  He's on the best contract in the NBA.

[JTB]

5 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

He's not an albatross right now and won't be until someone offers him a massive maximum contract.  If we get Herb Jones, that's plenty more anyways.  He's on the best contract in the NBA.

I agree.

No team is willing to pay Ingram 50 million per season. That’s just going to happen.

its the absolute least of our worries if we acquire Ingram via trade.

Now is Ingram going to accept 20-25 mil per season like DJ did?…likely not and in all honesty  DJ did the hawks a big favor signing that deal. He could easily have gotten 5-8 million more per season on his contract, especially in this era!

[RedDawg#8]

Sidenote, why would the Pelicans want to do that deal and take on an additional $9 million in salary when their owner is stereotypically even more cheaper than ours?

DJ-Hunter-Capela = $69 mil

Ingram-Jones-Nance = $60 mil

Would this strictly be because Capela is expiring and they wouldn’t have to offer Ingram a new contract?

[Final_quest]

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

If we have to add the #8 pick, a deal with NO might not work or maybe they can move Ingram somewhere else to get the value they want.  That deal is about Herb for me and DJM is a massive upgrade for them over Ingram because of future salary.

On the cap, just thinking off the top of my head I don’t think there is much change.  We are giving up more than $60M and getting back less than $60M if my thinking is correct because Ingram is something like $36M, Herb $12M, and Nance something like $12M too.  DJM is like $23M, Hunter $20M, CC $20M.  Those are not real numbers since I’m not going to open multiple windows on my phone right now but I think it should not increase our payroll meaningfully and might even decrease it.

With the payroll being roughly the same after this trade, we’d be right at the second apron.  Using the TPE or MLE at that point moves us above the second apron.

[RedDawg#8]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

I agree.

No team is willing to pay Ingram 50 million per season. That’s just going to happen.

its the absolute least of our worries if we acquire Ingram via trade.

Now is Ingram going to accept 20-25 mil per season like DJ did?…likely not and in all honesty  DJ did the hawks a big favor signing that deal. He could easily have gotten 5-8 million more per season on his contract, especially in this era!

He wont take 25-26, but something in the 30’s is what his market could be. 

[Final_quest]

Just now, RedDawg#8 said:

Sidenote, why would the Pelicans want to do that deal and take on an additional $9 million in salary when their owner is stereotypically even more cheaper than ours?

DJ-Hunter-Capela = $69 mil

Ingram-Jones-Nance = $60 mil

Would this strictly be because Capela is expiring and they wouldn’t have to offer Ingram a new contract?

That deal is not gonna happen.  

[NekiEcko]

Just now, Final_quest said:

That deal is not gonna happen.  

So what deal do you want to happen?  

[Final_quest]

Just now, RedDawg#8 said:

He wont take 25-26, but something in the 30’s is what his market could be. 

2025 is when the cap goes way higher for the league.  It’s gonna be a wild offseason.

[JTB]

5 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Sidenote, why would the Pelicans want to do that deal and take on an additional $9 million in salary when their owner is stereotypically even more cheaper than ours?

DJ-Hunter-Capela = $69 mil

Ingram-Jones-Nance = $60 mil

Would this strictly be because Capela is expiring and they wouldn’t have to offer Ingram a new contract?

You forgot that the insiders mentioned that #8 pick would be included in this deal (potentially to make it work).

so theoretically they’d be getting…

a much needed playmaker in DJ

an expiring contract in Capela

trading away what they feel is a possible big contract in Ingram

and the #8 pick which is probably the requirement to trade herb jones.

 

the way the hawks would get the 8th pick is a trade with the spurs. #1 pick for 4 and 8. Then there’s likely a deal on the table to get to number 3 with Houston. All a rumor but it all makes sense from all ends.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Sidenote, why would the Pelicans want to do that deal and take on an additional $9 million in salary when their owner is stereotypically even more cheaper than ours?

DJ-Hunter-Capela = $69 mil

Ingram-Jones-Nance = $60 mil

Would this strictly be because Capela is expiring and they wouldn’t have to offer Ingram a new contract?

Capela is expiring and they don't want to pay Ingram $50+ mil.

[AHF]

28 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

He's worth a shot for the better fit and the chance to see if Quin can instill newer/better habits in his shot diet.  If it doesn't work, that's okay.  DJ sure as hell isn't working and Ingram will still have value elsewhere.  If we get Herb in the deal (tall order), Ingram is house money.

It depends on what we give up to get Ingram.  As long as we are paying a fair price for Herb and then swapping contracts with NO for guys they prefer and aren't' paying a premium for Ingram I am on board with a trial run season with him.  I think there is some value there we should pay for that but not a lot.  My default expectation is we lose him after next year because I do think he will get a raise over where he is today and be somewhere in the $40-50M range.  Guys who score get overpaid in FA and he will be a 20 something fairly big name player so all it takes is one team to be willing to pay him.

6 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

With the payroll being roughly the same after this trade, we’d be right at the second apron.  Using the TPE or MLE at that point moves us above the second apron.

Here are the actual numbers:

DJM $25.5M

CC $22.26M

DH $21.7M

Total:  $69.5M

 

Ingram: $36M

Jones:  $13M

Nance:  $11.2M

Total:  $60.2M

 

This deal frees up $9.3M for next year (with the obvious caveat for future seasons that Ingram then is lost or requires a massive investment).

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Sidenote, why would the Pelicans want to do that deal and take on an additional $9 million in salary when their owner is stereotypically even more cheaper than ours?

DJ-Hunter-Capela = $69 mil

Ingram-Jones-Nance = $60 mil

Would this strictly be because Capela is expiring and they wouldn’t have to offer Ingram a new contract?

Darn. Should have looked up.  Thanks, @RedDawg#8.

Rationale for NO would be:

1) Trey Murphy is taking over for Ingram ala JJ for JC.

2) DJM fixes the big hole at PG that NO has had with almost identical production as Ingram but at a fraction of the price and at a position that blends with the rest of the team.

3) CC is a big defensive upgrade over what they've had for years and you either let him go to free up cap space or you can likely sign him at a significant discount going forward if he works out.

4) Hunter is a big wing which is hard to find and gives you depth.

 

Is that enough?  I'm skeptical but that is the scenario that Sothron put out there.  Something additional going from the Hawks to the Pelicans makes sense to me (Sacramento pick?  AJ?)  but OO or #8 are not something more they are core parts of a deal that completely changes it to lopsided in their favor, imo.  

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

the way the hawks would get the 8th pick is a trade with the spurs. #1 pick for 4 and 8

Which is the rub for me.  Do anything you need to get the deal done for Herb except giving up the #1 pick in the process.  Ship Bogi out if necessary.  He's probably one of our best trade assets and a perfect "sell high" guy.

[therealist]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

My preferred offseason based on what we’ve seen so far:

trade DJM, CC, and Hunter for Herb, Ingram, and Nance

This is a move that is all about Herb Jones.  Strong player on an amazing contract for years.  That is fantastic value to build around.  Ingram is a trial run who we likely let walk at the end of the year.  Nance is frontcourt depth but mostly filler salary.

With that trade, we are looking at a starting lineup of Trae / Jones / Ingram / JJ / OO

You then use the #1 pick and draft Alex Sarr.  He joins the bench with Butkin / Bogi / AJ / Vit / Nance / Sarr / Bruno.  You also have the TPE and the MLE to add more depth.

No more two PG defense means an upgrade on that side of the ball.  OO gets his shot.  Ingram gets his trial - if he is the mid-range sniper he has been then good luck and don’t let the door hit you where the Lord split you but if he evolves his game under Quin maybe there is something there.  Bogi is key off the bench.  Sarr is brought into the rotation focusing on defense and in matchups at the 4 or 5 where he can be successful.  
 

I think this is legit both a better team than last year’s Hawks next season and has significantly more upside for the future.  Let’s roll Hawks fans.  Who’s with me?

this is my ideal off season as well. problem is, i don't see any reason in hell for NO to make that trade. they're not getting nearly enough value back for a hard-to-fill position on what some call the best contract in the NBA. and without this deal happening, there's not really any possible way for this roster to drastically improve next year.

that's part of the reason why i'm actually in favor of trading trae. i know i'm in the minority, but i don't believe our front office is savy enough nor our situation flexible enough to get fitting pieces around him in the next few years. he's a great player, but extremely difficult to build around. i see him eventually picking a spot where he can shine and forcing a trade there, so i'd rather do it now rather than later. he might be the best way to recoup some of the picks we lost from the DJM trade, which would give us the ability to use these next few years to rebuild. then take sarr for the upside