2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, JTB said:

I agree.

No team is willing to pay Ingram 50 million per season. That’s just going to happen.

its the absolute least of our worries if we acquire Ingram via trade.

Now is Ingram going to accept 20-25 mil per season like DJ did?…likely not and in all honesty  DJ did the hawks a big favor signing that deal. He could easily have gotten 5-8 million more per season on his contract, especially in this era!

 

10 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

He wont take 25-26, but something in the 30’s is what his market could be. 

DJ took a 140% max extension off his existing $18 million so that's why he got ~$25 mil per as opposed to waiting for his previous deal to expire and seeing if he could command 30% max (not that I think he'd get it) of the current cap ($141 mil) for about $42 mil per.

Ingram will be making $36 million, he won't take less. He will be looking for at least a 20% raise.

 

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

DJ took a 140% max extension off his existing $18 million so that's why he got ~$25 mil per as opposed to waiting for his previous deal to expire and seeing if he could command 30% max (not that I think he'd get it) of the current cap ($141 mil) for about $42 mil per.

Ingram will be making $36 million, he won't take less. He will be looking for at least a 20% raise.

 

Yep, and he's never going to be worth the $36 million he's getting now, much less 20% more.  

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, therealist said:

this is my ideal off season as well. problem is, i don't see any reason in hell for NO to make that trade. they're not getting nearly enough value back for a hard-to-fill position on what some call the best contract in the NBA. and without this deal happening, there's not really any possible way for this roster to drastically improve next year.

I keep seeing that, here are the reasons (not saying a trade will happen):

1. They don't want to pay Ingram $50 million

2. They have his replacement for cheaper on their roster in Murphy

3. The Hawks have what they need: a PG to maximize their #1 guy in Zion (just like how we are trying to maximize Trae).

4. Murray is also on a great contract for his skillset.

It costs to do business.

[deester11]

1 hour ago, Afro said:

You and I definitely share the "f*** the east" sentiment lol. 

There are only 4 teams I respect as being clearly better than us on paper. 

Boston-no stipulations. There is nothing we can do this offseason to match that roster on paper. 

Sixers-IF they're fully healthy. This is the closest one though. 

Bucks-IF fully healthy. 

Knicks-now that they have OG. 

Everybody else? f*** em, square up Lil b's. Caw caw. 

 

Man...it ain't aboutthe freaking East alone. It's about being better than just play in and one and done. Screw that feel good movement thing. Put a team together that is progressively better than the also-ran teams. Don't care about them.  I want to be in the conversation every year of being the best.

[therealist]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I keep seeing that, here are the reasons (not saying a trade will happen):

1. They don't want to pay Ingram $50 million

2. They have his replacement for cheaper on their roster in Murphy

3. The Hawks have what they need: a PG to maximize their #1 guy in Zion (just like how we are trying to maximize Trae).

4. Murray is also on a great contract for his skillset.

It costs to do business.

admittedly, i don't know how NBA front offices decide value, and a lot of you guys seem to have a better understanding of it. i'd be happy to be wrong here. i'm just not getting my hopes up for the best possible outcome (for the hawks), and this trade seems to be exactly that.

now if we don't make a deal for herb, we have almost 0 options for improving roster fit around trae. at least 0 that have presented themselves here. if that's the case, we have to strongly consider moving trae

[therealist]

the fact that NO fans are down on the trade and hawks fans are high on it is an indicator to me that the value is a little off. but maybe fans and front offices really do value much different ideas of value. i'm not claiming to be an expert or to know what they're thinking

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, therealist said:

admittedly, i don't know how NBA front offices decide value, and a lot of you guys seem to have a better understanding of it. i'd be happy to be wrong here. i'm just not getting my hopes up for the best possible outcome (for the hawks), and this trade seems to be exactly that.

These are just possible discussions of what we'd like to see. 

[therealist]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

These are just possible discussions of what we'd like to see. 

fair enough. i'd like to see it too!

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, therealist said:

now if we don't make a deal for herb, we have almost 0 options for improving roster fit around trae. at least 0 that have presented themselves here. if that's the case, we have to strongly consider moving trae

I disagree. Our offseason is not ONLY tied to getting Herb or not. That's shortsighted.

Discussions with NO first started at the trade deadline revolving around them asking for OO. These things a fluid.

Ultimately, I think the trade me end up making is one we have not discussed at all. It'll more likely come from an unexpected team.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, therealist said:

the fact that NO fans are down on the trade and hawks fans are high on it is an indicator to me that the value is a little off. but maybe fans and front offices really do value much different ideas of value. i'm not claiming to be an expert or to know what they're thinking

My suggestion would be something like giving them the Sacramento first round pick or AJ to sweeten the deal for them.  I do think DJM would be a major upgrade for that team and getting him on a great contract under team control for years is ideal.  The core of the deal is DJM for Herb.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, therealist said:

we have to strongly consider moving trae

Ok. So what is your Trae trade that makes us a top 4-6 team in the East? 

(I'm not interested in rebuilding)

[JeffS17]

16 minutes ago, therealist said:

this is my ideal off season as well. problem is, i don't see any reason in hell for NO to make that trade. they're not getting nearly enough value back for a hard-to-fill position on what some call the best contract in the NBA. and without this deal happening, there's not really any possible way for this roster to drastically improve next year.

that's part of the reason why i'm actually in favor of trading trae. i know i'm in the minority, but i don't believe our front office is savy enough nor our situation flexible enough to get fitting pieces around him in the next few years. he's a great player, but extremely difficult to build around. i see him eventually picking a spot where he can shine and forcing a trade there, so i'd rather do it now rather than later. he might be the best way to recoup some of the picks we lost from the DJM trade, which would give us the ability to use these next few years to rebuild. then take sarr for the upside
 

Welcome to the board, don't think I've seen you around before!

Trading Trae is certainly a possibility but I haven't seen anything that really makes sense for BOTH teams where we get significant value back and he actually fits onto the roster of another team.  Keep in mind Trae is only 25 and this front office is in year 2 right now, so TBD if they can get something together for him.  Part of the difficulty building around Trae is that it is painfully obvious what we need around him, and those needs are the same as what every team is yearning for (elite POA defenders, great rim protection, shooting, etc) which makes dealing in trades difficult because everyone knows our hand.  Couple that with the fact our assets are not great and it's going to take some luck and magic by the FO to put together a true contender in the next few years. 

This is exactly why I'm a firm believer we need high ceiling players to develop (i.e keep the #1 pick and take the highest ceiling player in the draft, probably Sarr).  

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, therealist said:

the fact that NO fans are down on the trade and hawks fans are high on it is an indicator to me that the value is a little off. 

On the flip side NOP fans are high on a trade that gets them DJ, OO and #1 without including any of Herb, Murphy, or the 2025 LAL pick., but instead wants us to take CJ and Ingram.

So yeah, fans do what fans do.

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, therealist said:

the fact that NO fans are down on the trade and hawks fans are high on it is an indicator to me that the value is a little off. but maybe fans and front offices really do value much different ideas of value. i'm not claiming to be an expert or to know what they're thinking

Aye, I saw a Pelican'ts fan suggesting a Nance/Green for Murray deal as "fair" for Atlanta.  So forgive me if IDGAF what they think.

[therealist]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

I disagree. Our offseason is not ONLY tied to getting Herb or not. That's shortsighted.

Discussions with NO first started at the trade deadline revolving around them asking for OO. These things a fluid.

Ultimately, I think the trade me end up making is one we have not discussed at all. It'll more likely come from an unexpected team.

i agree that this is a possibility. do any big brain hawks fans have any other ideas for pieces that could immediately improve a trae young-centric roster? lots of teams vastly improved last year by making small moves or regressed due to letting role players walk. i'd love to start thinking about ideas like that rather than swinging for the fences. giannis, KAT, siakim talk is obviously more exciting, but i feel like all that discussion has been run through

personally, i think KCP is out of denver and would b a great defensive piece next to trae. he's a georgia guy too. we'd still have to move DJM in this scenario, but i feel like that's an inevitability at this point (if the FO has decided to keep trying with trae, which i think they have)

[therealist]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ok. So what is your Trae trade that makes us a top 4-6 team in the East? 

(I'm not interested in rebuilding)

well this move would definitely be a rebuild move. i don't see us becoming a top 1-4 team in the east with trae, so i don't really care about being top 4-6 next year. but that's just us wanting different things from the franchise. no harm in having different opinions

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, therealist said:

do any big brain hawks fans

1 minute ago, therealist said:

well this move would definitely be a rebuild move. i don't see us becoming a top 1-4 team in the east with trae, so i don't really care about being top 4-6 next year. but that's just us wanting different things from the franchise. no harm in having different opinions

So what's your plan. Lay it out for the big brained Hawks fans.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, therealist said:

well this move would definitely be a rebuild move. i don't see us becoming a top 1-4 team in the east with trae, so i don't really care about being top 4-6 next year. but that's just us wanting different things from the franchise. no harm in having different opinions

We were a 5-seed with him.  So ... 

[therealist]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Welcome to the board, don't think I've seen you around before!

Trading Trae is certainly a possibility but I haven't seen anything that really makes sense for BOTH teams where we get significant value back and he actually fits onto the roster of another team.  Keep in mind Trae is only 25 and this front office is in year 2 right now, so TBD if they can get something together for him.  Part of the difficulty building around Trae is that it is painfully obvious what we need around him, and those needs are the same as what every team is yearning for (elite POA defenders, great rim protection, shooting, etc) which makes dealing in trades difficult because everyone knows our hand.  Couple that with the fact our assets are not great and it's going to take some luck and magic by the FO to put together a true contender in the next few years. 

This is exactly why I'm a firm believer we need high ceiling players to develop (i.e keep the #1 pick and take the highest ceiling player in the draft, probably Sarr).  

thanks for the welcome. i've been a reader here for years, but never really had anything to offer discussion-wise so never posted. but this year is extremely pivotal and complicated, so i've put a lot of thought in. might as well spread it with other die hard fans lol

as for your point, you think we should keep trae but continue trying to develop players over the course of the next few years? i'd be down if trae was willing to stick it out, but i'm not so sure he is. but to be fair, none of us really know where his head is at in that regard.

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So what's your plan. Lay it out for the big brained Hawks fans.

i'm not trying to be rude, i really do think you guys have big brains. that's why i've been reading here for years

[AHF]

Just now, therealist said:

well this move would definitely be a rebuild move. i don't see us becoming a top 1-4 team in the east with trae, so i don't really care about being top 4-6 next year. but that's just us wanting different things from the franchise. no harm in having different opinions

I don't think this is the right time to rebuild.  With SA controlling our pick for the next 3 years, there is really no short-term benefit to being bad.  We can't do a tank job like the Spurs or OKC where we give away our best players and try to compete with a depleted roster while building a stash of picks and gathering lottery picks in the meantime.

If we are going to rebuild, I think the right time is a few years from now when if we stink we will benefit from that.  I don't trust the FO to get great value back in trades so I see us likely losing value when we move Trae or DJM and moving both doubles down on that lost value.  IMO, we are close enough that we need to keep working towards putting together the best team we can.  I'm also pretty certain that this is what Snyder signed up for when he came here.

Retool.  Don't rebuild.