2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[therealist]

alright it seems like a lot of us are thinking/hoping we keep trae and make the ideal hunt/capella/djm for herb/nance/ingram trade. i guess the thought process there would be to see how much we improve next season, then let ingram walk and use that freed up salary to round out the roster and put us into contender territory? i think i'm starting to see the vision.

if that's what we're decided on, i guess the only thing left to argue about is the draft selection. i know, i know.. i'm late to the party

[Afro]

I am by no means trying to criticize our new friend, @therealist, either. 

But it's a sentiment I see a lot from our fanbase. This idea that we should trade our star so we have a team full of role-players with picks hoping you can find another star to replace the one you just traded. 

That is vastly more difficult of a position than the opposite. Imagine if the Mavs had done this last year instead of what they did. That's how I feel like our fans are thinking sometimes. "Trade Luka for some roleplayers and picks, build around Kyrie....., and try to find another Luka like star". 

That's non-sensical to me. 

[therealist]

4 minutes ago, Afro said:

Idk how you can criticize the FO for not building the right team around Trae(this part is fair), BUT also think they can build a functioning team from complete scratch. 

Identifying the right guys to go around Trae should be relatively easy. Shit, we've(not this FO, though) done it before. If they failed at that, what makes you think they can do something woefully more difficult, like building an entire team from the ground up? 

i think we've actually a pretty good developmental team, and still improving with snyder. i think it would be a lot easier to take shots in the dark at players' upside when you don't have the pressure of trying to morph the team into a contender in the short term. ideally though, the FO would be rebuilt and worth a damn by the time the rebuild players are really ready to contribute, and that's all dependent on these guys landing a franchise-changing player, which isn't a guarantee. so yeah, i'm coming off the rebuild idea

[Afro]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Not sure why people are still so focused on that.  Never negotiate from a position of desperation.  Us going out to the market aimed at recovering those lost assets is the height of desperation. 

And as AHF and others have pointed out, there's not even a way to do that unless you go for an even higher form of desperation.....trading with a singular team for your own picks back. 

Otherwise, you're just trading Trae for picks from a team that's trying to be good. Woo. 

[djjob23]

4 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Id be fine with this.  We’re not crafting a perfect roster in one offseason but this moves us in a good direction

Who says we can’t…

If Hawks trade their first ever #1 Lottery pick… then let’s go all in… 

TRADE:
ATL: #1, DJM, OO, Capela, Hunter, AJG —> Herb, Suggs, Allen, #18, #35
NOP: Ingram, Herb, Nance Jr. —> DJM, Hunter, Capela
CLE: Garland, Allen —> Ingram, OO, #4
ORL: Suggs, #18 —> Garland, #8
SAS: #4, #8, #35 —> Nance Jr., AJG, #1

DRAFT:
#18: Tristan da Silva/Tyler Smith/Devin Carter
#35: Ulrich Chomche/Keshad Johnson/Ajay Mitchell

LINEUP:
Trae | Bufkin | #18/35/Flynn
Suggs | Bogi | Lundy
Herb | #18/35/Marshall | Vit
JJ | Bey | Gueye
Allen | #18/35/Theis | Fernando

 

GET IT DONE RESSLERS!!!

Edited June 6 by djjob23

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, NekiEcko said:

So what deal do you want to happen?  

I do like the deal with Ingram+Jones+Nance where we give the #8 pick to make it happen.  

[Afro]

2 minutes ago, therealist said:

i think we've actually a pretty good developmental team, and still improving with snyder. i think it would be a lot easier to take shots in the dark at players' upside when you don't have the pressure of trying to morph the team into a contender in the short term. ideally though, the FO would be rebuilt and worth a damn by the time the rebuild players are really ready to contribute, and that's all dependent on these guys landing a franchise-changing player, which isn't a guarantee. so yeah, i'm coming off the rebuild idea

I fully understand your reasoning here, but to me, this idea at it's highest ceiling, looks a lot like the Bud hawks. And I mean, it should lol, Quin was the one developing those guys. 

But to me this is even more reason to stay the course. You have a star. You have Quin. You need a better supporting cast. Seems like a match made in heaven lol. 

Hawks are a secondary "star"(maybe JJ) and some better role players away from scratching the surface of competing to me. I'd much rather see them go that route than the other. 

 

I'm rambling now lol, but Trae, Kobe, JJ, Gueye, Bogi, OO(depending on deals), the #1 pick, and DJM returns is a damn good place to start a soft rebuild/retool like the Mavs did. Depending on the returns from this offseason, that team has a good shot at being a perennial top 4 seed to me and then we see what happens from there. We will definitely need some improvements from there as I've mentioned, but I think those improvements are easier than trying to find another Trae like impact player. 

[therealist]

4 minutes ago, djjob23 said:

Who says we can’t…

If Hawks trade their first ever #1 Lottery pick… then let’s go all in… 

 

TRADE:
ATL: #1, DJM, OO, Capela, Hunter, & AJG —> Herb, Suggs, Allen, #18, & #35
NOP: Ingram, Herb, Nance Jr. —> DJM, Hunter, & Capela
CLE: Garland & Allen —> Ingram, OO, & #4
ORL: Suggs & #18 —> Garland & #8
SAS: #4, #8, #35 —> Nance Jr., AJG, & #1

DRAFT:
#18: Tristan da Silva/Tyler Smith/Devin Carter
#35: Ulrich Chomche/Keshad Johnson/Ajay Mitchell

LINEUP:
Trae | Bufkin | #18/35/Flynn
Suggs | Bogi | Lundy
Herb | #18/35/Marshall | Vit
JJ | Bey | Gueye
Allen | #18/35/Theis | Fernando

 

GET IT DONE RESSLERS!!!

if this exact trade doesn't happen, we riot

[Afro]

6 minutes ago, djjob23 said:

Who says we can’t…

If Hawks trade their first ever #1 Lottery pick… then let’s go all in… 

TRADE:
ATL: #1, DJM, OO, Capela, Hunter, AJG —> Herb, Suggs, Allen, #18, #35
NOP: Ingram, Herb, Nance Jr. —> DJM, Hunter, Capela
CLE: Garland, Allen —> Ingram, OO, #4
ORL: Suggs, #18 —> Garland, #8
SAS: #4, #8, #35 —> Nance Jr., AJG, #1

DRAFT:
#18: Tristan da Silva/Tyler Smith/Devin Carter
#35: Ulrich Chomche/Keshad Johnson/Ajay Mitchell

LINEUP:
Trae | Bufkin | #18/35/Flynn
Suggs | Bogi | Lundy
Herb | #18/35/Marshall | Vit
JJ | Bey | Gueye
Allen | #18/35/Theis | Fernando

 

GET IT DONE RESSLERS!!!

This is a turrible deal for us lol 

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, therealist said:

alright it seems like a lot of us are thinking/hoping we keep trae and make the ideal hunt/capella/djm for herb/nance/ingram trade.

My thinking is not limited to just a NOP trade as the only way to improve the team. 

I do want the team to retool the team around Trae and JJ and our #1 pick.  

The main thing it requires is for Messy Ressy to stop interfering and allow the front office to make the decisions.

[Afro]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My thinking is not limited to just a NOP trade as the only way to improve the team. 

I do want the team to retool the team around Trae and JJ and our #1 pick.  

The main thing it requires is for Messy Ressy to stop interfering and allow the front office to make the decisions.

Shit, I'll settle for Ressler being consistent. Where's the dude that largely wanted Trae because of ticket sales? Now we're out here potentially trading #1 to save a couple bucks and get Clingan? Who is paying to see that lol. 

[Afro]

12 minutes ago, Afro said:

This is a turrible deal for us lol 

Just so I don't come off like an a-hole lol, lemme break down my thoughts.

Thats like 75% of our rotation next year to get back 3 dudes and some meh picks lol. 

Put it a different way. We trade #1 for 4, 8, and 35. I'll throw AJG in this deal too just for kicks, but that makes this part lopsided too lol. 

Now we have 4, 8, 35, DJM, OO, Hunter, and Capela

So at that point the deal is two top 10 picks, 35, DJM, OO, Hunter, Capela for Suggs, Allen, Herb and #18. 

No thanks lol. 

Edited June 6 by Afro

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Afro said:

Shit, I'll settle for Ressler being consistent

The only thing Ressler has been consistent with is

 

 

 

 

[KB21]

Dallas Mavericks are NBA Finals bound because they built around Luka Doncic - Mavs Moneyball

Great read here.  I particularly liked one of the comments to the article.

Quote

 

The first and biggest mistake since drafting Luka Doncic and realising he will be a building block for this team was the "Speed up the rebuild process" decision. KP was injury prone and still the Mavs decided he is the perfect fit next to LD77. The talent evaluation was poor since 2012.

I wished at that time the Mavs would have traded HB for Wiggins. Or instead of the KP Trade choosing Aaron Gordon. When his stock was low he was available for a late first or two second round picks.

Now they got PJ and Daniel G. for a pick swap and a first round pick. Gafford could have been picked by the Mavs in 2019 with a second round pick. They gave up the second round pick for saving money! The Hornets wanted Josh Green + a first last summer for PJ. If you look at Josh's development and giving up Williams who was also more a pretender than a defense first guy that was a wise move.

The Formula has to be surrounding Luka and Kai with 6ft 7+ Players with 7ft+ Wingspan who are willing to play defense and take a step back. The league is full of 6ft 5- players which always go for the bucket first. We have two players on the bench with THJ and Hardy, the latter one received most of the minutes because he shows glimpses of a playmaker. THJ's playing time is limited because of his obvious flaws.

It is funny that the Cuban absolutistic era ended this year, from there the Mavs made their best decisions in the FO. The KP Trade depth will also come to an end with the 2024 NBA Draft. Either with a title for KP or the Mavs. He might not play a single minute in the playoffs and still win a title and still there are some Mavs Fans who wish that KP wouldn't be traded to the Wizards two years ago.

My biggest wish is that the Mavs put this KP Trade era to an end with an NBA Titel. With the new CBA and no picks it will be very difficult for the Mavs to surround Luka with capable players to be championship contenders. The only no brainer here is DL II. The best draft pick the Mavs have made after 2018 and they had to be forced to pick him!

A lot of this sounds familiar, from the speeding up the rebuild process which Atlanta did, to the formula for building around Luka and Kyrie, to the fact that the absolutist owner finally decided to take a step back from the decision making process.

[djjob23]

3 minutes ago, Afro said:

This is a turrible deal for us lol 

Is it though? If we are truly building a team around Trae, then you do it with tons of defense (perimeter and rim), motors/cutters, screeners, lob threats, spacing (shooters). Does this not address all of these? Also sheds bad contracts, gives us more size, better team fits, and puts us in win now mode without jeopardizing our future. I could argue that this deal makes us far more versatile team and easily a top 2 team in the East. What’s so turrible about that?

[Afro]

3 minutes ago, djjob23 said:

Is it though? If we are truly building a team around Trae, then you do it with tons of defense (perimeter and rim), motors/cutters, screeners, lob threats, spacing (shooters). Does this not address all of these? Also sheds bad contracts, gives us more size, better team fits, and puts us in win now mode without jeopardizing our future. I could argue that this deal makes us far more versatile team and easily a top 2 team in the East. What’s so turrible about that?

Oh hey, I have no problem with the players that came back lol. It's just the cost. 

I feel like #1(or 4 and 8), DJM, and AJG might be close to worth that package alone, and you added another 3 dudes to it lol. 

 

Edited June 6 by Afro

[JeffS17]

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My thinking is not limited to just a NOP trade as the only way to improve the team. 

What else do you have in mind?

[AHF]

58 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Also Trae is literally iron man when it comes to availability, which is a massive selling point in a league where star players can't seem to stay on the court.

The narrative on Trae would change on a dime if he was playing in New York or LA or other favored nation teams.  Knicks fans would love him to death.  He already has a lock on them.  Instant enemies to ummm....lovers of basketball situation.

[parfait]

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Dallas Mavericks are NBA Finals bound because they built around Luka Doncic - Mavs Moneyball

Great read here.  I particularly liked one of the comments to the article.

A lot of this sounds familiar, from the speeding up the rebuild process which Atlanta did, to the formula for building around Luka and Kyrie, to the fact that the absolutist owner finally decided to take a step back from the decision making process.

That article, and those particular points, are indeed very reminiscent of the Hawks' recent plight. I'm hoping that having a more powerful head coach like Snyder can create more of a buffer against owner interference than we've had before, but it remains to be seen. And we definitely need to be more nimble, like Dallas was, in pivoting away from bad decisions more quickly.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

What else do you have in mind?

I know we don't like the 'stuff' from LAL but what if we are able to reroute those future (#17, 2029, 2031) pick(s) to Nets for Bridges?

If we are getting a pick package for DJ,I want those pick(s) rerouted.