2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[Final_quest]

You can’t look at BI+ Herb Jones as an investment you would make with a blank check.  We don’t have money to spend.  We have Murray and overpaid flawed players to spend.  
Plus we don’t know what will happen with BI’s contract negotiation. 

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

This I don't see.  Seems largely like a taller DJM to me but no more productive at anything.  Some of the same worrying traits and I don't buy the shot diet is all about the PG thing either.

Look at his last two seasons with Lonzo Ball:

2019-20:  27.4% midrange shots

2020-21:  40.0% midrange shots

Even when he was still playing with Ball, he was already moving the midrange diet we've seen from him the last 4 years.  I do think he will shoot more 3's under Quin but I also think his midrange emphasis was a choice he made in addition to influenced by a lack of elite PG play next to him.  He might completely change his shot selection but I'm not assured of that.  4 straight years of 40%+ midrange shots including when playing with Ball is worrying.

If we pay for him as if he is an All-Star talent we are going to be very disappointed.  We need to pay for him in a trade (if we trade for him at all) as if he is going to be on a deal that he will have trouble justifying because that is the deal we should expect him to sign after next season.

I don't see how you can't believe he would decrease his mid range under Quin. You're even saying he's a bigger version of DJM and DJ has decreased his midrange from 38% last year to 28% this year. And increased his 3pt from 30% to 38%. 

But you can't believe BI would do so?

Also, wasn't the biggest issue with DJ / Trae fit on the defensive end? Because DJM was too small to guard SGs? BI isn't too small. 

On offense, the fit issue was the your turn my turn because DJM is a PG and plays like a PG. BI isn't a PG and doesn't try to play like one. 

It just seems to me like BI doesn't have the same deficiencies that DJM does. And the one area they are similar, is the one area Quin will absolutely fix. 

Saying you can't believe he'll stop the mid range when we've seen DJM do just that seems like you are fixating on the negative rather than believing in Quin. 

As an aside, I share the concern over the potential contract, but I think the one year trial is a risk I'm willing to take as long as the deal includes Herb. I look at it as DJM for Herb and Nance. 

[Bonzaii58]

If we can get Ingram + Herb and somehow retain our #1 pick I think we should do it. Even that means parting ways with Hunter or OO. I’m not fully sold on Ingram but if we don’t have to pay him until next year it doesn’t hurt to see what he does with a real PG like Trae. 

But it’s time to make hard decisions about players like Hunter, OO, and Capela. We have a lot of low spades that aren’t moving the needle for us, especially if we want to keep Trae. 

[RedDawg#8]

Porzingus is out here in the Finals playing the 5 but I am supposed to believe Sarr can’t do it for the Hawks lol

Just because you’re tall and can play on the perimeter doesn’t limit you to PF in today’s NBA. 

[REHawksFan]

21 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Porzingus is out here in the Finals playing the 5 but I am supposed to believe Sarr can’t do it for the Hawks lol

Just because you’re tall and can play on the perimeter doesn’t limit you to PF in today’s NBA. 

I wouldn't listen to anyone that claims to know what a 19-year old prospect can't do. He's 19. He's raw. He's shown flashes of a lot of different offensive weapons. He can be whatever he wants to be. 

The folks claiming he'll be a bust or he can't do this and can't do that are just trying to diminish him in an attempt to elevate whomever they prefer. 

Edited June 7 by REHawksFan

[KB21]

The modern NBA center skill set is far more desirable.  

[AtLaS]

51 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Porzingus is out here in the Finals playing the 5 but I am supposed to believe Sarr can’t do it for the Hawks lol

Just because you’re tall and can play on the perimeter doesn’t limit you to PF in today’s NBA. 

It's just a bad argument.  Sure, there are certain Center matchups where he will struggle early as a 19 year old, but he will still be able to play decent minutes at Center.  After he adds 20-30 lbs (he's already added 8 lbs in the last 9 months) he will be able to in most cases.  

[KB21]

13 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

It's just a bad argument.  Sure, there are certain Center matchups where he will struggle early as a 19 year old, but he will still be able to play decent minutes at Center.  After he adds 20-30 lbs (he's already added 8 lbs in the last 9 months) he will be able to in most cases.  

He doesn’t even need to add that much weight.  He’s going to naturally get stronger in an NBA conditioning program.  

[AtLaS]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He doesn’t even need to add that much weight.  He’s going to naturally get stronger in an NBA conditioning program.  

He was almost 10 lbs heavier than expected.  He's already progressing.  The dude is a gym rat.  With that natural height/athleticism and drive to be great, look out NBA.  I just have zero confidence in the Hawks to make the right decision.

Elite lob threat, Elite fast break, Elite defense in space and rim protector, sees the floor well, elite ball handling for a 7 footer, already shooting 30% from 3 in a pro league and 71% from FT.  

I can't believe there is even a debate on the #1 pick.

[terrell]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

The modern NBA center skill set is far more desirable.  

KP was also extremely skinny as a prospect.  He Might’ve been lighter than Sarr.. lol... 

[deester11]

28 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

He was almost 10 lbs heavier than expected.  He's already progressing.  The dude is a gym rat.  With that natural height/athleticism and drive to be great, look out NBA.  I just have zero confidence in the Hawks to make the right decision.

Elite lob threat, Elite fast break, Elite defense in space and rim protector, sees the floor well, elite ball handling for a 7 footer, already shooting 30% from 3 in a pro league and 71% from FT.  

I can't believe there is even a debate on the #1 pick.

I can.  It's the Hawks.  Bad takes and reality mesh well with this FO of i-dots and yes men. Sarr is the answer. Fk the questions..other teams l know this as well?

[Spud2nique]

On 6/5/2024 at 2:45 PM, Spud2nique said:

The Hawks FO seems to be interested in Risacher, Clingan, Reed Sheppard and Anderson Cooper.  Cooper sets great screens and has a killer smile ! {green font}

Who said this was over?  

@Hawkmoor Kyme ouch didn’t see it but 6-19 0-5 from 3. 

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

@Hawkmoor Kyme ouch didn’t see it but 6-19 0-5 from 3. 

[Threezus]

55 minutes ago, deester11 said:

I can.  It's the Hawks.  Bad takes and reality mesh well with this FO of i-dots and yes men. Sarr is the answer. Fk the questions..other teams l know this as well?

Their is a much better track record of the hawks front office over the years screwing up and not taking the guy everyone knows they should take.   Than them ever doing the right thing and taking the best player with the most upside or talent.    I 100% expect them to screw this up like they did  CP3,  Williams, Luka, etc..   If they pick Saar for the 1st time in a long time i'll start to believe we might finally have a legit front office with some potential. 

[JTB]

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF ALL OUR CENTER NEEDS & BE DONE WITH IT! WE NEED A NEW BIG MAN ROTATION.

 I am not trying to pick a fight BUT…

In this nba era the center position has become the most complex in my opinion defensively.

While you do still need a big man who has traditional size and strength like the Edeys and Clingans…you also need a guy who can be mobile like Sarr. There is no debating this! It’s two different styles and both are needed based on matchups! End of discussion.

What I believe that most have a problem with understanding defensively for the center position is the strength of matchups overall .
Too many want a do it all center and that person doesn’t exist. Even the best centers in the league can run up against a matchup problem and we have been seeing it all playoffs.

We are witnessing Center matchups becoming a bigger story than the perimeter matchups  because it can completely change a teams overall game plan to a greater effect for wins and losses.

There’s a reason the 3 time mvp Jokic said the TWolves were designed to beat us (us being the Nuggets of course).

KAT, Gobert, Reid is an excellent big man rotation to face off against a high elite caliber player like Jokic and his backups. They put their 3 headed monster against a legendary player and figured out how to beat him. Then faced a far more mobile mavs big man rotation and got dismantled! Now we are seeing the mavs mobile bigs vs the Celtics mobile bigs and suddenly they don’t look unstoppable. It’s all about the matchups!

Point is, when it comes to center there’s no one player out there who can give you EVERYTHING you need. This is why there’s so much arguing on the Squawk and perhaps the FO. Instead of admitting we need a new big man rotation everyone is expecting one player to fix it all .

I’ve noticed this a while back when doing my Personal fan evaluation of these incoming players and I ended with wanting the hawks to double dip in this years draft to take care of all the center needs as a whole and be done with it.  Every center or big man prospect has a prominent weakness including Sarr and Clingan 
 

we need to exchange….

OO - Mobile Center (too small to play center)

CC - Traditional Center (too small and not strong enough vs traditional sized star big men)

with…

Sarr - Mobile multi positional 7footer 

Clingan or Edey - Traditional Center with crazy size and strength 

 

I am not worried about what we do since the pelicans trade is on my mind but I can make an easy case for the need to draft two big men this upcoming draft. We have a need for both! Draft Sarr at #1 and then move back up to draft Edey. Clingan would be too tough to pull off but problems are solved with Sarr and Edey. Hawks should take care of it while they can.

[Jody23]

I don't see any Clingans or Edeys on either team in the finals.  And if they are, they aren't playing.  If Horford and Porzingis can be your fives, why can't OO and Sarr?  Why is a big lumbering center needed?

[Jody23]

 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF ALL OUR CENTER NEEDS & BE DONE WITH IT! WE NEED A NEW BIG MAN ROTATION.

 I am not trying to pick a fight BUT…

In this nba era the center position has become the most complex in my opinion defensively.

While you do still need a big man who has traditional size and strength like the Edeys and Clingans…you also need a guy who can be mobile like Sarr. There is no debating this! It’s two different styles and both are needed based on matchups! End of discussion.

What I believe that most have a problem with understanding defensively for the center position is the strength of matchups overall .
Too many want a do it all center and that person doesn’t exist. Even the best centers in the league can run up against a matchup problem and we have been seeing it all playoffs.

We are witnessing Center matchups becoming a bigger story than the perimeter matchups  because it can completely change a teams overall game plan to a greater effect for wins and losses.

There’s a reason the 3 time mvp Jokic said the TWolves were designed to beat us (us being the Nuggets of course).

KAT, Gobert, Reid is an excellent big man rotation to face off against a high elite caliber player like Jokic and his backups. They put their 3 headed monster against a legendary player and figured out how to beat him. Then faced a far more mobile mavs big man rotation and got dismantled! Now we are seeing the mavs mobile bigs vs the Celtics mobile bigs and suddenly they don’t look unstoppable. It’s all about the matchups!

Point is, when it comes to center there’s no one player out there who can give you EVERYTHING you need. This is why there’s so much arguing on the Squawk and perhaps the FO. Instead of admitting we need a new big man rotation everyone is expecting one player to fix it all .

I’ve noticed this a while back when doing my Personal fan evaluation of these incoming players and I ended with wanting the hawks to double dip in this years draft to take care of all the center needs as a whole and be done with it.  Every center or big man prospect has a prominent weakness including Sarr and Clingan 
 

we need to exchange….

OO - Mobile Center (too small to play center)

CC - Traditional Center (too small and not strong enough vs traditional sized star big men)

with…

Sarr - Mobile multi positional 7footer 

Clingan or Edey - Traditional Center with crazy size and strength 

 

I am not worried about what we do since the pelicans trade is on my mind but I can make an easy case for the need to draft two big men this upcoming draft. We have a need for both! Draft Sarr at #1 and then move back up to draft Edey. Clingan would be too tough to pull off but problems are solved with Sarr and Edey. Hawks should take care of it while they can.

Agreed....I said this a while back, when I thought we were gonna get the Kings pick, that I wanted us to draft 2 BIGS.....

Edited June 7 by terrell

[Hawkmoor]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

@Hawkmoor Kyme ouch didn’t see it but 6-19 0-5 from 3. 

You saw why Atlanta needs to draft Sarr.  Porzingas height hurt Dallas in the backcourt when they had him out playing in space.  Both Luka and Kyrie were disrupted back there.  It was still not a good game for Kyrie regardless.  Dallas will be back.  They have to adjust to Porzingas.

Edited June 7 by Hawkmoor

[marco102]

Chiming in on the Brandon Ingram discussion.

He may be a better fit with Trae than Murray.  He can play off ball. Shooting 41% (before this season) on catch and shoot threes and he's improved his playmaking. He's also a good rebounder.  I'd take a flyer on him for one year to see if playing with Trae unlocks him.  If it does, you have a big wing, that playmakes and is an average defender.  If you get Herb Jones that's just icing on the cake. I'd try to keep Hunter though. I want a team with some size for once.