2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[bleachkit]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

The key is the GM making the call and it not being Ressler’s voice that matters.

Agreed 100%

[tyjcdh112012]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

I cannot speak for the other insiders but the Hawks are extremely tight lipped on work outs and how the workouts turn out. If I were to say anything about them I would lose my sources. It is that secret. The Hawks are in full blown lockdown mode when it comes to the draft. What I am being told in private is what I am keeping private.

What I can say though is we have some smart basketball people in the FO, the scouting area and our HC. Whatever they do with the pick or who we walk away with after the draft is going to be heavily researched and debated about among all the voices that matter.

What you are saying sparks confidence in the FO @Sothron , but how sure can we be that no matter how much research and debate the smart people do that Tony won’t just override it all and pick whoever tf he wants 

[Wretch]

3 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I actually believe the drafting hasn’t been the problem in recent years: Trae, JC, Huerter, Jalen, etc.  Even Bufkin, MoG, and AJ were good picks.  Hunter, OO, Cam were not bad picks either.  You can’t hit every year.

There have been bigger problems elsewhere.   

I agree.  Travis Schlenk did well and I trusted him with our drafts.  I don't know if I trust this current regime, but this isn't wholly relevant to the point that I was making.  Which is more about how having a front office job does not automatically qualify your opinion on talent prospectus and how the absence of official NBA affiliation does not automatically disqualify you.  I mean...there's only a mile long list of historically talented players who have, every single year, managed to slip through "expert" scrutiny.  And will continue to do so...

[Final_quest]

6 hours ago, Wretch said:

I agree.  Travis Schlenk did well and I trusted him with our drafts.  I don't know if I trust this current regime, but this isn't wholly relevant to the point that I was making.  Which is more about how having a front office job does not automatically qualify your opinion on talent prospectus and how the absence of official NBA affiliation does not automatically disqualify you.  I mean...there's only a mile long list of historically talented players who have, every single year, managed to slip through "expert" scrutiny.  And will continue to do so...

It does happen every single year.  Same thing happens with college recruiting.  But the other thing that happens is unrealistic fan hype and expectations.  

I think I’m more tired of the “expert fan” than NBA GMs failing.  

[thecampster]

Very good analysis starting at the 5 minute mark. Goes through all top picks.
 

 

[kg01]

7 hours ago, Wretch said:

I agree.  Travis Schlenk did well and I trusted him with our drafts.  I don't know if I trust this current regime, but this isn't wholly relevant to the point that I was making.  Which is more about how having a front office job does not automatically qualify your opinion on talent prospectus and how the absence of official NBA affiliation does not automatically disqualify you.  I mean...there's only a mile long list of historically talented players who have, every single year, managed to slip through "expert" scrutiny.  And will continue to do so...

I'm head-nodding with this entire sermon but I think your target was off.  I don't think Mikey was disagreeing with your overall premise.  I think he was just taking aim at some folks around here that behave like their opinions are gold and everyone else's are crap-ola.

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I'm head-nodding with this entire sermon but I think your target was off.  I don't think Mikey was disagreeing with your overall premise.  I think he was just taking aim at some folks around here that behave like their opinions are gold and everyone else's are crap-ola.

This, plus wild projections of immediate success for Sarr in particular.

[gurpilo]

hace 7 horas, Wretch dijo:

I agree.  Travis Schlenk did well and I trusted him with our drafts.  I don't know if I trust this current regime, but this isn't wholly relevant to the point that I was making.  Which is more about how having a front office job does not automatically qualify your opinion on talent prospectus and how the absence of official NBA affiliation does not automatically disqualify you.  I mean...there's only a mile long list of historically talented players who have, every single year, managed to slip through "expert" scrutiny.  And will continue to do so...

I think overall we have a solid youth foundation, Kobe Bufkin, Seth Lundy, AJ Griffin, Mo Gueye…. All of them are players that I think will become rotation pieces. All of them have good skills for their position, size, athleticism, defense might be a work in progress. If we are able to add some big men, we will have a good youth support in 1-2 years.

And I am not counting on JJ.

 

 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I think overall we have a solid youth foundation, Kobe Bufkin, Seth Lundy, AJ Griffin, Mo Gueye…. All of them are players that I think will become rotation pieces. All of them have good skills for their position, size, athleticism, defense might be a work in progress. If we are able to add some big men, we will have a good youth support in 1-2 years.

And I am not counting on JJ.

 

 

I have hope for all of these guys but only have real confidence in Bufkin right now.  AJ if he can get his head on straight should be money as well.  Lundy I think is a long shot.  Gueye is the big swing guy - he strikes me as having the tools to be a real impact addition to the rotation but is raw enough that it might never happen.

[gurpilo]

hace 5 minutos, AHF dijo:

I have hope for all of these guys but only have real confidence in Bufkin right now.  AJ if he can get his head on straight should be money as well.  Lundy I think is a long shot.  Gueye is the big swing guy - he strikes me as having the tools to be a real impact addition to the rotation but is raw enough that it might never happen.

Lundy can be a better version of Garrison Matthews and that might be just around the corner, we will see on Summer league. I still hope Griffin can return to first season, I agree on Gueye but the potential is so big! I am eager to see summer league, I think we will surprise a lot of people.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Lundy can be a better version of Garrison Matthews and that might be just around the corner, we will see on Summer league. I still hope Griffin can return to first season, I agree on Gueye but the potential is so big! I am eager to see summer league, I think we will surprise a lot of people.

I hope I'm underestimating Lundy.  I just don't really see him as an NBA rotation guy.  But I've been wrong before and always love to be wrong when I'm not as high on a Hawk as someone else.

[Dragitoff]

Just getting back form vacation and catching up on all the discussion.  I saw a lot of chatter about getting #3 from Houston.  While I agree with one poster that we don't need 2 rookies, we also don't have a lot of draft picks available to us going forward so drafting smart could benefit us in a draft where teams are so willing to offload picks.  That's putting a lot of faith into our scouting departments while simultaneously asking the Resslers to trust the basketball experts so...

That being said, I don't see Houston interested in Murray, but could they be interested in Brandon Ingram?  Could we flip DJ to NO and Ingram to Houston for #3 and someone like Dillon Brooks?  Houston can absorb the extra salary so it helps NO lower overall payroll while better fitting pieces.  We can draft Risacher @ #1 and Clingan @ #3.  That gives us the size we've been needing while also giving us 2 rookies who could step in and be role players immediately without expecting them to start.  Trae, Brooks, Hunter, JJ, and OO isn't a bad starting squad.  Capela can still be moved.  If we don't like Brooks, we could probably expand that deal to send Brooks to Memphis along with Capela for Marcus Smart/filler.  

This team needs tough defenders.  I hate Dillon Brooks and Marcus Smart because they are those dogs like that, but we haven't had guys like that in a really long time and it shows. 

[KB21]

Yep.  Nate was the one driving the bus on getting Trae off the ball more.  I always felt that was stupid.  Nate is also the coach who couldn't adjust to what Miami was doing.  Quin put on a clinic the next year against Miami.  

[Wretch]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I'm head-nodding with this entire sermon but I think your target was off.  I don't think Mikey was disagreeing with your overall premise.  I think he was just taking aim at some folks around here that behave like their opinions are gold and everyone else's are crap-ola.

3 hours ago, Final_quest said:

It does happen every single year.  Same thing happens with college recruiting.  But the other thing that happens is unrealistic fan hype and expectations.  

I think I’m more tired of the “expert fan” than NBA GMs failing.  

I understand where you guys are coming from, but when you stand up in a room and say, or infer, that everyone's opinions are invalid because professionals say so, I'm going to call it out.  It's a textbook (and laughable) appeal to authority fallacy.  It doesn't matter if they make the claim about one poster or all posters, it's a hollow argument that is easily deflated.

I understand why @Final_quest is put off by the hype and superstar projections of Sarr.  His skepticism and annoyance are 100% justified and I can relate.  I was annoyed with all the hype in here for Bogut over Chris Paul (and did WEEKS of dancing with Walt over it).  In effect, we're just talking past each other.

What I don't care for is this kind of elitism:

Quote

"No sothron the people on this forum who will never sniff a job in basketball ops know everything and more than the people that do this for a living!"

"Can someone explain to me with real basketball reasons how there was no consensus number 1 in this draft all year yet you guys are saying the hawks are making a mistake and not open to any other player. such a laughably miserable fanbase that has decided a draft decision is right or wrong when guys haven’t even played a minute in the league. This is exactly what hornets fans did with brandon miller last year and look who was awesome year 1 "

 

I've been lurking with my fingers off the keyboard for the most part, so that wasn't a response to me @kg01.  It was a slap in the face to the whole forum...and I got time.

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I understand where you guys are coming from, but when you stand up in a room and say, or infer, that everyone's opinions are invalid because professionals say so, I'm going to call it out.  It's textbook (and laughable) appeal to authority fallacy.  It doesn't matter if they make the claim about one poster or all posters, it's a hollow argument that is easily deflated.

I understand why @Final_quest is put off by the hype and superstar projections of Sarr.  His skepticism and annoyance are 100% justified and I can relate.  I was annoyed with all the hype in here for Bogut over Chris Paul (and did WEEKS of dancing with Walt over it).  In effect, we're just talking past each other.

What I don't care for is this kind of elitism:

I've been lurking with my fingers off the keyboard for the most part, so that wasn't a response to me @kg01.  It was a slap in the face to the whole forum and...I got time.

I hear you, I hear you.  It's an apt message and one that I agree with. 

I'd just respectfully ask that poor lil' Mikey be given some grace.  I think that comment was ... shall we say targeted and not meant as dismissive of us all.  I'll leave it at that. 

[RedDawg#8]

I love smart debates. Let’s run it

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I love smart debates. Let’s run it

Then, with a heavy heart, I must decline the invitation to participate....

 

[terrell]

3 hours ago, gurpilo said:

Lundy can be a better version of Garrison Matthews and that might be just around the corner, we will see on Summer league. I still hope Griffin can return to first season, I agree on Gueye but the potential is so big! I am eager to see summer league, I think we will surprise a lot of people.

I like Gueye and Bufkin potential.

Lundy and AJ? Meh

[Birdsfan]

2 hours ago, Dragitoff said:

Just getting back form vacation and catching up on all the discussion.  I saw a lot of chatter about getting #3 from Houston.  While I agree with one poster that we don't need 2 rookies, we also don't have a lot of draft picks available to us going forward so drafting smart could benefit us in a draft where teams are so willing to offload picks.  That's putting a lot of faith into our scouting departments while simultaneously asking the Resslers to trust the basketball experts so...

That being said, I don't see Houston interested in Murray, but could they be interested in Brandon Ingram?  Could we flip DJ to NO and Ingram to Houston for #3 and someone like Dillon Brooks?  Houston can absorb the extra salary so it helps NO lower overall payroll while better fitting pieces.  We can draft Risacher @ #1 and Clingan @ #3.  That gives us the size we've been needing while also giving us 2 rookies who could step in and be role players immediately without expecting them to start.  Trae, Brooks, Hunter, JJ, and OO isn't a bad starting squad.  Capela can still be moved.  If we don't like Brooks, we could probably expand that deal to send Brooks to Memphis along with Capela for Marcus Smart/filler.  

This team needs tough defenders.  I hate Dillon Brooks and Marcus Smart because they are those dogs like that, but we haven't had guys like that in a really long time and it shows. 

If that were on the table, why wouldn't NO take #3 and Brooks for Ingram and then trade #3 or maybe even something else to us for Murray?

[Dragitoff]

8 minutes ago, Birdsfan said:

If that were on the table, why wouldn't NO take #3 and Brooks for Ingram and then trade #3 or maybe even something else to us for Murray?

I don't know that NO wants Brooks, since he is similar to Herb Jones, yet makes more $ than Jones.  If they relented and included Herb Jones in a deal for Murray to us, maybe to get us to relent on including OO instead of Capela, maybe they use Brooks to replace Herb as their defensive stopper.