Afro Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 9 minutes ago, macdaddy said: I don't want to bash DJ but geez louise. He's been in the league longer than Trae and has played in a total of 10 playoff games as a starter. If DJ can do what Trae has done then why hasn't he? The age stuff is something I don't really understand. People act like his career started that first year with the Hawks. Moreso from people not on the squawk. DJM has been around A WHILE. He was teammates with not just Kawhi.... But Aldridge, Tony P, Manu, and Pau Gasol as well... Edited June 11 by Afro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deester11 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 7 minutes ago, macdaddy said: I don't want to bash DJ but geez louise. He's been in the league longer than Trae and has played in a total of 10 playoff games as a starter. If DJ can do what Trae has done then why hasn't he? Lmao at this entire Trae /DJM medley of pitniks about Trae. If anyone thinks Murray is better than Trae, it's their opinion. No matter how interestingly...interesting that take is. I'm not interesting in trading Trae. I would be...sad... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AHF Posted June 11 Author Moderators Popular Post Report Share Posted June 11 2 hours ago, REHawksFan said: Also, let's talk about the Hawks and not just DJM. In the 22-23 season: The highest OffRtg occurs with Trae ON and DJM OFF in over 900 total minutes. DJM ON and Trae OFF has the lowest OffRtg. Also has a significantly lesser NetRtg. In the 23-24 season: Once again, the highest OffRtg is Trae ON and DJM OFF at 122.1 pts / 100. DJM ON and Trae off is 2nd at 119 which isn't too bad. But look at the NetRtg. Trae ON and DJM OFF is +3.47 this season. DJM ON and Trae OFF is -0.56. Over the course of the entire 2 seasons together: Trae leads Hawks to 120.59 OffRtg and a +2.78 NetRtg while DJM leads them to 117.31 OffRtg and a -1.12 NetRtg. If you want data to show your position is ridiculous, look no further than this. DJM isn't leading the Hawks to be just as good or "slightly less than" Trae. Only when Trae is ON and DJM OFF do the Hawks have a positive NetRtg in about 1700 minutes of play. 2 hours ago, Afro said: Yeah, this is super compelling quantitative data for me. I've seen other variations of it using other metrics as well. All of it says two things (1) that Trae + DJM is a train wreck and (2) Trae w/o DJM > DJM w/o Trae. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post REHawksFan Posted June 11 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 12 minutes ago, AHF said: Yeah, this is super compelling quantitative data for me. I've seen other variations of it using other metrics as well. All of it says two things (1) that Trae + DJM is a train wreck and (2) Trae w/o DJM > DJM w/o Trae. It reinforces what the eyes show you watching them play. There really shouldn't even be the debate over this. The Hawks FO has done Trae a massive disservice in being cheap and not putting complementary pieces around him. Edited June 11 by REHawksFan 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Jody23 Posted June 11 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted June 11 Moderators Report Share Posted June 11 I'm just now noticing that the Sixers have literally no one under contract except Embiid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AHF Posted June 11 Author Moderators Popular Post Report Share Posted June 11 2 hours ago, REHawksFan said: It reinforces what the eyes show you watching them play. There really shouldn't even be the debate over this. The Hawks FO has done Trae a massive disservice in being cheap and not putting complementary pieces around him. They just made such a huge mistake trading for DJM. We would have been better trading for KCP and he was almost free compared to DJM's price. I'm sure they could not see the fit being as bad as it ended up being but it is a huge miss. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragitoff Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 23 minutes ago, AHF said: They just made such a huge mistake trading for DJM. We would have been better trading for KCP and he was almost free compared to DJM's price. I'm sure they could not see the fit being as bad as it ended up being but it is a huge miss. To be fair, I think half the league was scared of KP's injury history (and present). Bringing him here would've potentially stalled JJ's progression as well. The fit next to OO is tantalizing though. In hindsight, DJM looked like what the doctor ordered on paper. A secondary creator and a reputation as a perimeter defender. The fit didn't translate from paper to the hardwood though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 11 Author Moderators Report Share Posted June 11 2 minutes ago, Dragitoff said: To be fair, I think half the league was scared of KP's injury history (and present). Bringing him here would've potentially stalled JJ's progression as well. The fit next to OO is tantalizing though. In hindsight, DJM looked like what the doctor ordered on paper. A secondary creator and a reputation as a perimeter defender. The fit didn't translate from paper to the hardwood though. I wasn't actually talking about KP although that was clearly a good move. I was saying that we would have been better off trading for KCP - Kentavius Caldwell-Pope. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragitoff Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 13 minutes ago, AHF said: I wasn't actually talking about KP although that was clearly a good move. I was saying that we would have been better off trading for KCP - Kentavius Caldwell-Pope. I completely missed the "C" KCP would've been a great (and inexpensive) fit next to Trae for sure! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theheroatl Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 38 minutes ago, AHF said: They just made such a huge mistake trading for DJM. We would have been better trading for KCP and he was almost free compared to DJM's price. I'm sure they could not see the fit being as bad as it ended up being but it is a huge miss. This is flat out wrong. DJM resigned on a value contract and is our best positive asset. Either way you slice it, it was worth the risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealist Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Dragitoff said: I completely missed the "C" KCP would've been a great (and inexpensive) fit next to Trae for sure! he's probably on the way out of denver because of their payroll situation. he might be a nice piece to add if there's room after whatever blockbuster(ish) trade(s) we (hopefully) make Edited June 11 by therealist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REHawksFan Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 47 minutes ago, AHF said: They just made such a huge mistake trading for DJM. We would have been better trading for KCP and he was almost free compared to DJM's price. I'm sure they could not see the fit being as bad as it ended up being but it is a huge miss. I applaud the attempt. They were at least trying to solve the secondary ball handler issue and DJM had just been an all star, so I get the idea. But yeah, it ended up being a massive MISS in terms of fit. DJM is not an all defensive player at the 2. And he's not an all star unless he has the ball all the time on a bad team. So it just doesn't work. But I won't fault them for trying to make improvements. My biggest complaint is they don't seem to have a vision for how they need to construct the team. Or if they do, they haven't really executed it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragitoff Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 35 minutes ago, therealist said: he's probably on the way out of denver because of their payroll situation. he might be a nice piece to add if there's room after whatever blockbuster(ish) trade(s) we (hopefully) make Part of me wonders if they don't somehow try to maneuver MPJ out of Denver to give better length to our team while also making Trae happy with his BFF. I like MPJ, but he's not the defensive wing player we really need. Would I rather him be here at his salary or a re-signed Brandon Ingram and what he's expected to get????? Good damn question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdsfan Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 18 minutes ago, Dragitoff said: Part of me wonders if they don't somehow try to maneuver MPJ out of Denver to give better length to our team while also making Trae happy with his BFF. I like MPJ, but he's not the defensive wing player we really need. Would I rather him be here at his salary or a re-signed Brandon Ingram and what he's expected to get????? Good damn question. Do you think Denver would part with MPJ? I personally like Ingram better and think he is more impactful and MPJ is not exactly cheap (and back problems scare me). However, not sure if MPJ is anywhere near as gettable as Ingram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member BangHolman Posted June 11 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 11 1 hour ago, theheroatl said: This is flat out wrong. DJM resigned on a value contract and is our best positive asset. Either way you slice it, it was worth the risk. Trading 3 FRPs (2 unprotected) and 1 swap for a All-Star reserve was not worth the risk. Should've listened to Schlenk. Those picks would have held more value too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 11 Author Moderators Report Share Posted June 11 1 hour ago, theheroatl said: This is flat out wrong. DJM resigned on a value contract and is our best positive asset. Either way you slice it, it was worth the risk. (1) We lost two seasons to this terrible fit. (We went from outright making the playoffs to being worse and being in the play-in with DJM so on court it was a step backwards). (2) Trading 3 first round picks and a pick swap would net us more than DJM will so our assets would be better if we had them back. It wasn't worth it at all with the benefit of hindsight. 1 hour ago, REHawksFan said: I applaud the attempt. They were at least trying to solve the secondary ball handler issue and DJM had just been an all star, so I get the idea. But yeah, it ended up being a massive MISS in terms of fit. While I made the case that we overpaid, I think without the benefit of hindsight it was a much more reasonable gamble. It just missed badly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragitoff Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 17 minutes ago, Birdsfan said: Do you think Denver would part with MPJ? I personally like Ingram better and think he is more impactful and MPJ is not exactly cheap (and back problems scare me). However, not sure if MPJ is anywhere near as gettable as Ingram. I don't know and haven't heard or read that he was available. Denver needs depth right now to keep that title window open and with their financial situation, that's hard to do outside vet ring chasers lining up to sign with you. Dealing some of your high-paid starters is a good way to break that salary allotment from one good player to 2-3 rotational pieces. I'm not advocating this from the Hawks perspective either. I like MPJ, but like DJ, not the fit. Offensively he gives us another perimeter shooter, but does nothing to improve our defensive issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 I would definitely take MPJ over Ingram. He's a much better fit for Trae and Quin's scheme. 10 times out of 10. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdsfan Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 23 minutes ago, KB21 said: I would definitely take MPJ over Ingram. He's a much better fit for Trae and Quin's scheme. 10 times out of 10. I would not take a chance with MPJ unless the medical staff is 100% ok with his back. I am not sure how long of a career he has (and he still has over $115 million guaranteed remaining on his contract). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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