2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[ShooterSays]

Some highlights from the Ringer's 2024 NBA Draft Guide:

1 - Castle
2 - Clingan
7 - Sarr
8 - Risacher

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

[KB21]

Discuss.  Brooks and Adams are essentially salary fillers.  The key to this trade would be getting Green along with the picks.  It doesn't knock my socks off, but it's better than sending him to the Lakers for their crap.  NOTE: I'm in no way saying this should happen.  I'm just toying around with the ideas of what could be deemed a legitimate offer for Trae.  

[Afro]

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

You still need vets even in a rebuild.  DJ is honestly the perfect locker room vet for young guys.  And we would still be competing as we dont have our picks… you develop guys by developing winning habits, not tanking.

Havent seen a Trae trade floated yet that really makes sense but Soth claims there is a non-Spurs team interested (with a serious offer) so its possible. 

I'm sorry, but if you're tanking/rebuilding but still holding onto a valuable asset who is 10 years older than the guys in the 25 draft... Youre doing it wrong. 

I also don't really accept the premise. Yes, vets are good. Valuable vets with a large trade market? Nah. 

But also, the vast majority of current stars were on very bad teams for a good while to start their career. I don't really see the evidence that you need a DJM or it'll fail. 

Giannis, Steph, Embiid, Ant, SGA, Booker, etc, etc all were on "losing" teams.

I don't think there's really evidence that a "winning culture" makes the difference you say it does. Maybe the Heat. However theres a metric shit ton of evidence in the modern NBA that sitting on a giant pile of assets makes a winner. 

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

You still need vets even in a rebuild.  DJ is honestly the perfect locker room vet for young guys.  And we would still be competing as we dont have our picks… you develop guys by developing winning habits, not tanking.

Havent seen a Trae trade floated yet that really makes sense but Soth claims there is a non-Spurs team interested (with a serious offer) so its possible. 

Duplicate 

Edited June 21 by Afro

[thecampster]

18 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I assume what you were really upset about is trading fir DJ?   It never made sense to have both Heurter and Bogi coming off the bench.  Salary implications aside, that feels like way too much depth in a single niche role (bad defenders who can shoot 6th man archetype).  Bey brings toughness and aggression, two things Heurter had zero of

and yet we got worse.

21-22 - 43 wins

22-23 - 41 wins (Heurter out, Murray in)

23-24 - 36 wins (Collins out, Bey in)

[thecampster]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Discuss.  Brooks and Adams are essentially salary fillers.  The key to this trade would be getting Green along with the picks.  It doesn't knock my socks off, but it's better than sending him to the Lakers for their crap.  NOTE: I'm in no way saying this should happen.  I'm just toying around with the ideas of what could be deemed a legitimate offer for Trae.  

I need time to look at this. On the surface I think we can do better than that but I need time to digest everything you're trying to do here.

[Afro]

But also, I just have to chuckle at the thought the DJM is the guy to teach winning culture. 

I am 110% not trying to knock him, but DJ ain't ever been a large part of winning.. Anywhere lol. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

and yet we got worse.

21-22 - 43 wins

22-23 - 41 wins (Heurter out, Murray in)

23-24 - 36 wins (Collins out, Bey in)

Playing DJM and Trae on the floor at the same time has proven to be worse than Trae + Huerter or Trae + Bogi (and worse than DJM + Bogi).  They don't fit.  We missed on the trade.  Time to get back to a viable fit.

[nathan2331]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Discuss.  Brooks and Adams are essentially salary fillers.  The key to this trade would be getting Green along with the picks.  It doesn't knock my socks off, but it's better than sending him to the Lakers for their crap.  NOTE: I'm in no way saying this should happen.  I'm just toying around with the ideas of what could be deemed a legitimate offer for Trae.  

If this was hypothetically the best return we could get for Trae, we'd be way better off keeping him. Jalen Green is not a player I'd want to build around, and those picks we'd be getting back are years away from making a difference. If we were a good team, our draft picks belonging to San Antonio wouldn't be an issue. As far as I'm concerned, the focus should be on upgrading the weak links on the team, not entering another rebuild. The penny pinching is what has cost us games. The team can improve if the front office builds on what we already have.

Edited June 21 by nathan2331

[JeffS17]

7 minutes ago, Afro said:

However theres a metric shit ton of evidence in the modern NBA that sitting on a giant pile of assets makes a winner

Who has done this? Didnt pan out for Philly, Detroits tank might never end, OKC had a nice run this past year, but theyre about to have to start paying guys so TBD.  

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Hawkish said:

Ego is a powerful thing.  You’d rather have a voice than improve.

It's sad.  We had a chance.  Then daddy and son stepped in.

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

...  I'm just toying around...

 

Please stahhp then.  Oof.  This offseason can't end soon enough. 

2 minutes ago, Afro said:

But also, I just have to chuckle at the thought the DJM is the guy to teach winning culture. 

I am 110% not trying to knock him, but DJ ain't ever been a large part of winning.. Anywhere lol. 

That's the product of fans' familiarity breeding contempt (for Trae) and reaching to savior-ize the closest alternative. 

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

If this was hypothetically the best return we could get for Trae, we'd be way better off keeping him. Jalen Green is not a player I'd want to build around, and those picks we'd be getting back are years away from making a difference. If we were a good team, our draft picks belonging to San Antonio wouldn't be an issue. As far as I'm concerned, the focus should be on upgrading the weak links on the team, not entering another rebuild. The penny pinching is what has cost us games. The team can improve if the front office builds on what we already have.

I agree, and this is why I don't see any legit offers that would interest me.  I looked at OKC, and unless they do a SNT with Gordon Hayward, they can't aggregate enough salary to make a deal for Trae.  

[bleachkit]

Landry is staring into the deep, dark abyss. It's as if the fate of universe is at stake. 

[KB21]

Also, one of the biggest MYTHS that are out there is that it is so difficult to build a competitive team around Trae Young.  BULLSHIT!  He's one of the three best shot creators in the NBA.  It's not hard to build a team around him.  

[kg01]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Who has done this? Didnt pan out for Philly, Detroits tank might never end, OKC had a nice run this past year, but theyre about to have to start paying guys so TBD.  

This is fair.  I get where @Afro is coming from.  You rather have assets than not.  But the reality is teams rarely turn these hauls of picks into much of anything.  Success comes from a preponderance of shrewd moves, picks, trades, signings.  Thats it.  Thats the secret formula. 

[Hawkish]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Discuss.  Brooks and Adams are essentially salary fillers.  The key to this trade would be getting Green along with the picks.  It doesn't knock my socks off, but it's better than sending him to the Lakers for their crap.  NOTE: I'm in no way saying this should happen.  I'm just toying around with the ideas of what could be deemed a legitimate offer for Trae.  

I don’t see why we would entertain this.  Veterans that don’t make us better and low picks.  Is Green a winning player?

[Final_quest]

27 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I assume what you were really upset about is trading fir DJ?   It never made sense to have both Heurter and Bogi coming off the bench.  Salary implications aside, that feels like way too much depth in a single niche role (bad defenders who can shoot 6th man archetype).  Bey brings toughness and aggression, two things Heurter had zero of

Glad you asked.  I didn't want to derail another thread with this debate, but I'm curious to hear from @thecampster on this question as well.  Keeping Huerter adds a lot to your future payroll, I think it would have been like $200M during 2023-2024. 

Could be saying we should have moved Bogi instead?   That also creates problems in not having one of the best shooters in the league who has a lot of dimensions to his game.  
 

[Afro]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Who has done this? Didnt pan out for Philly, Detroits tank might never end, OKC had a nice run this past year, but theyre about to have to start paying guys so TBD.  

Who has done your way and worked out if a title is the only metric we can use? The last line I also don't much understand. That's part of any rebuild? 

But to answer your question with the caveat that titles are all were measuring, the Celtics lol. The team that tore it all down and has been so flush with assets for almost a decade that they could build a super team a couple times over lol. 

[Afro]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

This is fair.  I get where @Afro is coming from.  You rather have assets than not.  But the reality is teams rarely turn these hauls of picks into much of anything.  Success comes from a preponderance of shrewd moves, picks, trades, signings.  Thats it.  Thats the secret formula. 

My main point isn't even the metric shit ton of assets. 

It's that when has an actual player like DJM had more of an impact on building a title contender than the assets he is worth? With a Splash of hell be 32 by the time the kids are ready thrown into the calculus. 

Edited June 21 by Afro

[ShayD]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

To me that is an absolute dumpster fire of a plan that has everything working against it.

First, rebuild tanking is a multiple year process that is all about getting multiple chances in the lottery.  This plan is a 1 time effort.

Second, the same team that is good enough to be competitive in 2026 is too good to tank in 2025.  DJM / Bogi / Hunter / JJ / OO is not a team that gets you viable odds to win the lottery.  You need to do a Spurs by holding out healthy players to completely tank a season or a Sixers by tearing the team down to studs to ensure you have viable lottery odds and even then the odds are that you still won't get that #1 pick.  That is why you need multiple swings at it for a rebuilding tank to be viable.  (The first round of Spurs tanking was leaning into injuries with a playoff level team so it is more surgical and only worked because guys legit got injured and then they just held them out rather than bringing them back.) 

Counting on something happening like it did for us this season where we defy very low odds is like basing your financial planning around scratch-off lottery tickets.  It can work but it is foolish at best.

The odds of this plan playing out and not having a single player as good as Trae on the team by 2028 are extremely high.

That's why I think it's a bad idea and they shouldn't think about trading Trae unless he asks out.

 

Don't doubt a young FO thinking this plan can work and just might be tired of Trae

Edited June 21 by ShayD

[Afro]

16 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Also, one of the biggest MYTHS that are out there is that it is so difficult to build a competitive team around Trae Young.  BULLSHIT!  He's one of the three best shot creators in the NBA.  It's not hard to build a team around him.  

They already did! Which is what drives me bananas. It's not like its just some fantasy land we have to dream up. We've already seen that it can work! And that wasn't even that good of a team.