2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[warcore]

23 minutes ago, cam1218 said:

I remember during the DJM rumors during the season a comment along the lines of “we would laugh or understand” why he signed the contract when he was traded during the season. Whatever that was, is it still a thing?

I apologize if I'm wrong, but I believe it was @Sothron that mentioned that??? But his sauces are currently putting the clamps on him so he likely can't share anything. 

Edited June 21 by warcore

[Bonzaii58]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Dejounte Murray still on Lakers' radar in trade conversations

The Pat McAfee Show: “The pressure is on the Lakers front office to make changes to this roster.. They have to be aggressive and I think Dejounte Murray will come up in trade conversations” @ShamsCharania #PMSLive

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure if there’s anyone on that team that really moves the needle for us. So tired of this connection to the Lakers. They have no one that makes us contend or significantly better. I’d only move Murray for that trade off. 

[therealist]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The only point guard in the NBA that is in Trae's tier as a point guard is Ja Morant.  

both those guys are embarking on the damian lillard story arc, with ja's being the rated R version

[Afro]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don't think this is what you mean, but this comes across as the Hawks should have made a trade for the sake of making a trade.

Certainly not make a trade just to make a trade. 

But this team needed to get better last year. They didn't. 

Saying that "well they tried for Siakim" doesn't remove the fact that there were other avenues that we ignored. 

If our GMs grand plan last year was "trade for Siakim" with absolutely zero backup plan. .. IMO that GM needs to do a better job. 

[Final_quest]

1 minute ago, Afro said:

You give them these outs like this isn't literally their job, man. 

Going for Siakim was good! 

Going after Siakim and having absolutely zero backup plan other than *Wes matthews* is very bad. 

His job is to build a winner. Not to try and fail and throw an entire season away. 

 

Nothing very bad happened because we didn’t have a back up plan.  The very bad came from the rest of the roster.  No scrub signing changes the results from last year.  We keep telling ourself the lie that “one more bench guy” takes us from a lost season to a contender.  

What do you think happened?  Did Tony mandate not to spend that $10M?  What you really think happened is a much more interesting conversation to me.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, therealist said:

the assists numbers you referenced are a by-product of trae's elite playmaking, which i agree is in fact, elite. but my point is that being the best playmaking PG in the league doesn't make you the all around best at the position. the object of NBA is to win a championship, not roster a player being the very best at one facet of the game. to me, the very best PG is the one you can most easily use on a roster to win a championship. jrue holiday is a switchable guard that can play elite defenses on multiple positions, create shots when the matchup calls for it, hit open shots at a high rate, and most importantly, sacrifice some of his playmaking to other players for the sake of winning. i guarantee every team in the NBA would agree that winning an NBA championship with jrue would be easier than with trae.

if you look around at past NBA championship rosters, there weren't many that won with ball dominant PGs that played 0 defense. tony parker was probably the closest, but he had players around him that were much better than he was. i do think trae is good enough to win a championship, but i think he's going to need to concede his alpha role to better players and accept that his assist numbers will come down. i certainly don't think he's the best PG in the league. and i have serious doubts about whether our front office can put the perfect roster in place around him to get us to NBA contender status.

 

 

Being the 3rd best player on a team will always make it easier for a PG (or someone at any position) to win a championship.  Pair Trae with Duncan, Kawhi and Manu and he will be showing off his rings too.   

Isiah Thomas had a ton of depth on his roster but was the best player as a scoring first point guard on a multiple teams.  Magic had the advantage of multiple HOFers to feed.  The most recent is multiple championships won with Steph Curry as a score first point guard (he led his team in usage rate even with Durant there).

[Afro]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

Nothing very bad happened because we didn’t have a back up plan.  The very bad came from the rest of the roster.  No scrub signing changes the results from last year.  We keep telling ourself the lie that “one more bench guy” takes us from a lost season to a contender.  

What do you think happened?  Did Tony mandate not to spend that $10M?  What you really think happened is a much more interesting conversation to me.

You and I vehemently disagree on the 1st line. To say "this" is nothing bad, yeah no lol. The only reason it wasn't catastrophic was because we got lucky with some ping pong. 

We were a ping pong ball away from hoping whatever Landry could scrounge up from DJM and Dalton Knecht were enough to put us over the top. Otherwise Trae leaves for nothing. 

But yall keep saying "scrubs". We had 10 million and a TPE. There was more than enough to do something that made a tangible difference. We didn't. 

 

 

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, Afro said:

Certainly not make a trade just to make a trade. 

But this team needed to get better last year. They didn't. 

Saying that "well they tried for Siakim" doesn't remove the fact that there were other avenues that we ignored. 

If our GMs grand plan last year was "trade for Siakim" with absolutely zero backup plan. .. IMO that GM needs to do a better job. 

Who?  Who got moved that would have made this team better this past year that was a legitimate option for the Hawks?

[Afro]

At the end of the day you don't trade away the vast majority of your draft assets(DJM and Bey) to tread water and throw out the roster they did last year. 

I don't really understand how that's controversial lol

[therealist]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

Being the 3rd best player on a team will always make it easier for a PG (or someone at any position) to win a championship.  Pair Trae with Duncan, Kawhi and Manu and he will be showing off his rings too.   

Isiah Thomas had a ton of depth on his roster but was the best player as a scoring first point guard on a multiple teams.  Magic had the advantage of multiple HOFers to feed.  The most recent is multiple championships won with Steph Curry as a score first point guard (he led his team in usage rate even with Durant there).

this is my point entirely. also relevant to what @RedDawg#8 said. tony parker was the 3rd best player on that team, and i agree trae could get rings as the third best player on a team. as the best player, which is what the hawk's immediate future will allow, he will not win a championship.

as for steph, he played in a ridiculously unique and non-replicable system and did not serve as the primary creator. the way he and trae play are completely different. my point is ball dominant PGs who play 0 defense are difficult to win championships with without much better players around them. i can't speak to IT personally, because i didn't watch that team. but we can all agree it was too long ago to be relevant to the modern NBA's roster construction meta

Edited June 21 by therealist

[Afro]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Who?  Who got moved that would have made this team better this past year that was a legitimate option for the Hawks?

"who" ain't my job lol. I have zero behind the scenes info. 

The Mavs were able to rebuild their roster completely in a single year and make the finals, but yall want me to believe the Hawks had *zero* options outside of Siakim? 

Come on lol. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, therealist said:

this is my point entirely. also relevant to what @RedDawg#8 said. tony parker was the 3rd best player on that team, and i agree trae could get rings as the third best player on a team. as the best player, which is what the hawk's immediate future will allow, he will not win a championship.

as for steph, he played in a ridiculously unique and non-replicable system and did not serve as the primary creator. the way he and trae play are completely different. my point is ball dominant PGs who play 0 defense are difficult to win with without much better players around them. i can't speak to IT personally, because i didn't watch that team. but we can all agree it was too long ago to be relevant to the modern NBA's roster construction meta

You could make the case that nobody wins with power forwards as their best player.  Being a great player at a position is not a bad thing and doesn't prevent you from winning.  People used this argument against Jordan until his team matured and they build around him.  Get other HOF talent on the roster is task #1 when you have someone like Trae.  So far nobody has even sniffed an All-Star game.

[Afro]

Yall gonna make me have to go dig through threads from after the playoffs last year to find opinions on "should we just run it right back" lol. 

But I gotta go to dinner. 

[therealist]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

You could make the case that nobody wins with power forwards as their best player.  Being a great player at a position is not a bad thing and doesn't prevent you from winning.  People used this argument against Jordan until his team matured and they build around him.  Get other HOF talent on the roster is task #1 when you have someone like Trae.  So far nobody has even sniffed an All-Star game.

tim duncan and giannis antetokounpo. kawaii can and has played the 4 spot in big moments too.

but i agree with that point about trae. it's a shame he hasn't played with talent. and i have serious doubts he ever will in a hawks uniform because of the DJM trade debacle. which i know you also believe was a debacle

Edited June 21 by therealist

[gurpilo]

hace 59 minutos, NBASupes dijo:

There is a lot going on behind the scenes. 

Guys I know will remain

Trae

JJ

Bogi

The rooks

I think will stay

OO

Hunter 

Bruno

Guys I think will be moved

Garrison 

Murray 

Capela

 

I think Bey will return but it's all about roster spots at this time. That said, the Hawks really love Bey. 

I don’t have a problem with that plan, I see the logic.

I think our big stars are going to be Trae and JJ.

Bogi, Hunter, OO, Bufkin and Gueye seem to be good complimentary pieces but all of them are bench players, Bogi and Hunter might be borderline starters so the question is how we can fill the starting unit? Essentially the question is what can we get back from DJM, Capela, Griffin and Garrison? We desperately need a starting SG and a starting C. Bogi and OO cannot start with Trae, they need to play on the 2nd unit. We might start Hunter as we have a few options left.

Trae/Bufkin

?/Bogi

?/Hunter

JJ/Gueye

?/OO/Bruno

In my opinion at #1 I would select Sarr and fill the starting C, I know it can take a while, but is what I would do. Backup plan is Clingan.

I would try to get Mikal Bridges at all cost with DJM/Capela/Griffin, I would even add OO or Hunter to make it happen.

The other starter would need to come from FA and there are a a few that fit perfect this roster, Melton, Gari Harris, Delon Wright, Naji Marshall….

Is easy to see how a trade like 1 for 4 and 8 pick fits in the plan, you would select Clingan and Knetch that immediately fill the roster, the point is, can you really win with 2 rookies playing meaningful minutes?

Edited June 21 by gurpilo

[warcore]

24 minutes ago, Bonzaii58 said:

So tired of this connection to the Lakers.

there is no connection to the Lakers. You have to stop believing this idiots. Stop clicking. 

[Final_quest]

6 minutes ago, Afro said:

You and I vehemently disagree on the 1st line. To say "this" is nothing bad, yeah no lol. The only reason it wasn't catastrophic was because we got lucky with some ping pong. 

We were a ping pong ball away from hoping whatever Landry could scrounge up from DJM and Dalton Knecht were enough to put us over the top. Otherwise Trae leaves for nothing. 

But yall keep saying "scrubs". We had 10 million and a TPE. There was more than enough to do something that made a tangible difference. We didn't. 

 

 

What very good thing is your prediction with a masterful plan B?  You think there was a particular player you can sign that makes up for all of our injuries?

All of our very bad things were related to everything else we invested in, nearly our entire roster is getting turned over for example.  One more investment in a flawed player available for a one year deal…. makes up for a flawed roster and saves our season?  I have less belief in a difference maker being available than you.

[warcore]

13 minutes ago, Afro said:

"who" ain't my job lol. I have zero behind the scenes info. 

The Mavs were able to rebuild their roster completely in a single year and make the finals, but yall want me to believe the Hawks had *zero* options outside of Siakim? 

Come on lol. 

Unfortunately Gafford was never an option for us because there are burned bridges with Travis. He was the one of the most impactful acquisitions in the entire NBA and cost very little to obtain. Our FO sucks in a lot of ways... bad relationships is just another neg to add to their resume. 

[sturt]

51 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

What are you referring to? I dont have any connections in the Hawks org other than my season ticket rep. 

Okay. I don't have anything specific I was referring to, just a vague memory of you speaking as-if you had some insight. All good.

 

53 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The difference in opinion on last season boils down to my expectations for this squad versus others.  I dont believe were winning anything or making noise until we fix major roster holes in our starting 5, which is why I do not care about deep bench spots at the moment.  Once I feel comfortable we have a core that fits and has the potential to develop together into a contender, Ill start lobbing some of the same complaints around filling out the roster and spending more.  I just dont see it right now— hoping that changes this offseason.

Okay, but that seems to totally, or at least largely, sidestep the question... sure, you're welcome to your conclusions, but in light of what just happened and the odds against that, your confidence level in those conclusions should accommodate better the possibility that adding to rather than subtracting from the talent inventory on the 23-24 roster last off-season legitimately could have just as well rendered the 23-24 season to be, rather than a lost season, a season that proved the team's 2023 showing against the EC champs to be a harbinger of what was to come, with the team building on that foundation and reclaiming a place in the conversation of teams on the cusp of getting to the upper tier of the conference.

 

[Final_quest]

20 minutes ago, Afro said:

"who" ain't my job lol. I have zero behind the scenes info. 

The Mavs were able to rebuild their roster completely in a single year and make the finals, but yall want me to believe the Hawks had *zero* options outside of Siakim? 

Come on lol. 

By that rationale you could say the same thing every year.  
“I don’t know anything about who or what, but Dallas made a couple good trades and went to the finals.  That’s what we should have done”

It means nothing.  You Come on…