2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[marco102]

34 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Been told Hawks just taking Sarr and keeping him is a building voice in the Hawks FO.

Don't block me Soth....

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Bingo.  The Hawks didn't miss a beat without Trae toward the end of the season.  In fact, their major ratings got better:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matissa/2024/04/03/are-the-atlanta-hawks-better-without-trae-young/?sh=491a89ab6373

With Young injured, Atlanta is free to give more minutes to guys like Jalen Johnson, De’Andre Hunter, Vit Krejci, and Garrison Matthews — all players who can score off-ball, are bigger than Young, and defend better than him.

Plus, since they have Bogdan Bogdanovic — a gifted two-level scorer with some underrated passing chops — Atlanta still has a sound secondary creator/backup point guard to flank Murray (or fill in when he’s taking a breather).

That’s why, despite losing their best player, the Hawks have improved in offense, defense, and overall net rating.

Not true.  The Hawks were 4 points per 100 possessions worse with DJM than they were with Trae.  That's with them playing teams who didn't have anything to play for at the end of the season.  Reality is going to hit hard if they trade Trae, because without him, this team will bottom out throughout the entirety of a season and not just what happens in March.  

[cam1218]

7 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Bingo.  The Hawks didn't miss a beat without Trae toward the end of the season.  In fact, their major ratings got better:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matissa/2024/04/03/are-the-atlanta-hawks-better-without-trae-young/?sh=491a89ab6373

With Young injured, Atlanta is free to give more minutes to guys like Jalen Johnson, De’Andre Hunter, Vit Krejci, and Garrison Matthews — all players who can score off-ball, are bigger than Young, and defend better than him.

Plus, since they have Bogdan Bogdanovic — a gifted two-level scorer with some underrated passing chops — Atlanta still has a sound secondary creator/backup point guard to flank Murray (or fill in when he’s taking a breather).

That’s why, despite losing their best player, the Hawks have improved in offense, defense, and overall net rating.

This has been talked about before, but there were many more factors (mainly other players availability) that played into this as well. We had a lot of key players miss time throughout the year last season.

[RedDawg#8]

Are we back to the ever timeless Trae vs DJ debate again?

I swear it must be an election year with all of the politics and opinions surrounding these two.

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, JTB said:

Man that’s great! I hope it’s true and we are keeping Trae.

You have to ask yourself if the owner, who loves his profit is more willing to trade his cash cow or get rid of the other pieces and try to build a team that's in the top 6 of the East to keep his cash cow around. 

The entire time this entire Trae Vs. Murray thing has seemed nonsensical to me.  If anyone of those two were getting traded, it would be Murray.  Unless Trae demanded a trade and then it would still be Murray because Trae's under contract for another year. 

[Final_quest]

2 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I'm going to say this again, ahead of the draft and once more for the record

I'm sure that some people believe Sarr is NBA ready or close to NBA ready.  They probably also believe that he is the "best player in the draft" and is the best fit for the Hawks, long or short term.  That is not hardly the consensus of his supporters and that consensus, if there is one, is certainly not drawn from a single G-League performance. 

I think you're tired of the hype, which is 100% understandable and actually relatable, but because of it...you're misreading the enthusiasm and running with this idea that everyone who likes Sarr is completely blind and is overlooking his flaws.  We all know how to read a scouting report - many of us having done this for 2-3 decades.  We have seen an endless stream of rookies come in with highs and lows and we have all hit and missed at time.  Though, the idea that the people who want Sarr are blind is way off base and by leaning into it as hard as you are, you're looking past the actual reason why the majority of the board (if the polls are indicative) is interested in taking him #1 overall.

There are many, professionals who "do this for a living" included, who see upside as the primary driver for evaluating prospects in the high lottery (if not the whole of the lottery).  That being the case, the people who want Sarr have settled on him as a high (or even the highest) upside player.  If we must beat the dead horse, it's his speed, agility, and coordination at his size that are driving the interest in him.  We saw his play against the G-League not as a validator of how skilled he is, and certainly not a bar against veteran NBA defenders, but a resounding validation of how much upside he has.  He is raw, as is literally almost every rookie, but the fact that he's VERY young, coming off the bench in a pro league that prefers experience/maturity, and not being featured is why we believe that his floor may not be as low as the flaws suggest.

TL:DR: There is plenty of discussion and debate to be had as to why people believe he is the best upside prospect for us.  If you're pushing back against those who believe he is an overall better prospect than anyone else in the draft, then you're arguing with a minority contingent with unrealistic expectations.

Well, I think my position is misunderstood.  I rank him as #1 prospect.  What I’m pushing against is the idea that he’s so promising that we must take him and that we’re idiots if we do anything else.  In short I’m hoping we get an offer that we can’t pass up and trade out.

Follow up question is if all the pros clearly see him as a huge upside prospect, why aren’t we getting offers that reflect that?  

[ShooterSays]

I don’t need advanced analytics to tell me this team is better with Trae. Pretty obvious watching the games.

Also, when was the last time DJM led a team to the conference finals? When was the last team DJM even led a team to the playoffs without Trae?

[marco102]

Just now, Final_quest said:

Well, I think my position is misunderstood.  I rank him as #1 prospect.  What I’m pushing against is the idea that he’s so promising that we must take him and that we’re idiots if we do anything else.  In short I’m hoping we get an offer that we can’t pass up and trade out.

Follow up question is if all the pros clearly see him as a huge upside prospect, why aren’t we getting offers that reflect that?  

I guess the other counter could be that the Hawks aren't accepting offers because they see him as the clear number one which it seems is starting to leak out. 

I support your thoughts here though. My point was they shouldn't take anyone else without getting a good return.  THAT's what will tick me off. 

[txsting]

32 minutes ago, Threezus said:

You might be on your own on this one my friend lol.  I think he is finally starting to scratch the surface and growing into his man body and strength while the game slows down for him as he learns.   You could see him go from a 10,5,5  guy for the start of the season last year.  To about half of his games down the final stretches being about 20+ 10+ 5  games with blocks and steals added in.   If he gets more experience and can make that go from half his games to like 90% of his games he will be a superstar quality player.    He is only 22 years old and only 1 season of starting.   To say that is his peak is sorta crazy to me he isn't even into his prime yet or had a ton of time on the floor. 

Maybe so, but how many guys peak in their second or third year?  I think it's a lot more than those who push through and reach another level.  We've seen it right here time and time again......Hunter, Collins, Childress, maybe Okongwu in a few years - guys who you are excited about at 23 and then are worth a fraction of what they were by 26.   The sigma move is to sell high.  I hope JJ becomes an efficient 20 and 10 guy with great defense.  But I'd rather someone else gamble on it.  His last season was 0.4 OBPM and 0.8 DBPM.  1.5 VORP.  Just a guy really.

Edited June 24 by txsting

[cam1218]

13 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Are we back to the ever timeless Trae vs DJ debate again?

I swear it must be an election year with all of the politics and opinions surrounding these two.

This insider thread has become so many things that I don’t even know what to call it anymore.

[KB21]

Shit.  Now we have people talking about JJ already being maxed out as a player and how we should trade him now?  People who believe this and believe that we are better without Trae have no clue about basketball.

[theheroatl]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Shit.  Now we have people talking about JJ already being maxed out as a player and how we should trade him now?  People who believe this and believe that we are better without Trae have no clue about basketball.

The only answer is FIRE SALE. Come and get it at the Hawks Garage Sale. 

 

[Wretch]

25 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Well, I think my position is misunderstood.  I rank him as #1 prospect.  What I’m pushing against is the idea that he’s so promising that we must take him and that we’re idiots if we do anything else.  In short I’m hoping we get an offer that we can’t pass up and trade out.

Follow up question is if all the pros clearly see him as a huge upside prospect, why aren’t we getting offers that reflect that?  

So I have to throw out the disclaimer in that we don't know what the actual offers for the #1 are. 

That aside, I'm assuming that the line of reasoning here is...why isn't there more excitement or interest in the top pick?  I don't think that's an indicator of Sarr's upside pick as much as it is an indicator of the interest in this "flat" draft class in general.  In any given "strong" year, it's clear who is going 1-2.  This year you could create a drastically different top 3 mock  with different teams picking at #1.  Personally, if we didn't have Trae...I would be HARD pressed to pass on Sheppard.  I've got him 2nd overall in my top 4 with: Sarr, Knecht, and Risacher-ish.

[KB21]

Just now, theheroatl said:

The only answer is FIRE SALE. Come and get it at the Hawks Garage Sale. 

 

I'm convinced that we have fans who only want to draft in the lottery year after year.  Hell, we wouldn't even be doing that since we don't control our picks for the next three f***ing years.  

[txsting]

52 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Well, OO and Hunter are good defenders but is not working.... no, you really need an elite guard defender to protect Trae and a Paint protector or an elite offensive Center. Those are really expensive players. Name Players that fit Trae and are available....

I only can think on De Anthony Melton and Andre Drummond, starting those 2 IS a reach in my opinión.

Delon Wright.  Already proven the fit.  Trae's SG partner prototype would be nasty dog defender, efficient from 3.  Then on down the line into the front court, you need excellent switchable defenders with high basketball IQ and at least one guy who can handle volume / get his own shot / get to the line.  Celtics-lite.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Been told Hawks just taking Sarr and keeping him is a building voice in the Hawks FO.

Apology?

[JTB]

6 minutes ago, txsting said:

Delon Wright.  Already proven the fit.  Trae's SG partner prototype would be nasty dog defender, efficient from 3.  Then on down the line into the front court, you need excellent switchable defenders with high basketball IQ and at least one guy who can handle volume / get his own shot / get to the line.  Celtics-lite.  

Next to Trae….If we are drafting Sarr and trading for either Jimmy or PG…man I’m going to jump for joy!

hell I like Ingram as another fit though some on this board don’t like that move.

Edited June 24 by JTB

[JTB]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Apology?

If we draft and keep sarr…I’ll be the first to apologize to you and @KB21

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, Afro said:

Plus, it has the bust name already built right in. Y'all trying to root for Reece-a-shit? lol

I had a busy day doing real work, so I'm just catching up.

I had to put my phone down, walk away and just have a good hearty, side splitting, water rolling down my cheeks laugh. 

[Afro]

12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I had a bust day doing real work, so I'm just catching up.

I had to put my phone down, walk away and just have a good hearty, side splitting, water rolling down my cheeks laugh. 

I live to serve lol