Simple Question: Will the Hawks Start the season OVER OR UNDER the Luxury Tax?

[JayBirdHawk]

While we wait for the rest of our offseason to unfold let's play the game sweeping the Squawk.......

   

OVER OR UNDER THE TAX!!!!!!

   

Who's up first?

[Jdawgflow]

24 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

While we wait for the rest of our offseason to unfold let's play the game sweeping the Squawk.......

   

OVER OR UNDER THE TAX!!!!!!

   

Who's up first?

Under.  
 

They need to:

But I fear Messy Ressy will walk away like:

[JeffS17]

This seems the most appropriate thread to post some digging I've done for the tax related discussions:

In the East, there have been 2-3 tax paying teams in each of the last 3 seasons.  Some combination of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, Miami, and Boston.  Below are the situations each team was in before heading into the tax:

Brooklyn: The Nets started paying the tax in the 2020-2021 season.  They were coming off of a 7th seed, 35-37 performance the year prior.  They intially went into the tax to add Kevin Durant and James Harden to Kyrie Irving for their big 3.

Philly: Philly also started paying in the 2020-2021 season.  They were coming off of a 43-30 6th seed the season prior where Embiid missed 30 games.  They made this decision with a core of Embiid + Ben Simmons (at the time, an all-star, all-NBA, 1st team defense, DPOY contender) as their two best players.

Milwaukee: Another team that entered the tax for the first time (albeit, barely) in the 2020-2021 season.  Milwaukee was coming off of a 1st seed, 56-17 season.  Giannis + Middleton + Jrue core

Miami: Miami entered the tax last season for the first time in years.  They were coming off a finals appearance, looking to push the chips in for a ring, retaining their Butler/Bam/Herro core

Boston: Boston initially went into the tax in 2022-2023 season.  They were coming off 2nd seed, 51-31 season, inwhich they also made the finals.  Core of Tatum + Brown with Smart/Horford/White/Brogdon in the core rotation

Happy to go through the West teams too.  But when we think through the opportunities for the Hawks to go into the tax, does a core of have we had a core of players worth spending for?  Have we had results that indicate we're ready to contend?  Did we miss an opportunity to spend to win?

[macdaddy]

18 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

But when we think through the opportunities for the Hawks to go into the tax, does a core of have we had a core of players worth spending for?  Have we had results that indicate we're ready to contend?  Did we miss an opportunity to spend to win?

I mean we went to the ECF.  If that's not a result that indicates we're ready to contend i'm not sure what is.  

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I mean we went to the ECF.  If that's not a result that indicates we're ready to contend i'm not sure what is.  

We spent all the money we could spend the following season, though.  There wasn't a path into the tax that offseason-- not until our rookies got off their rookie scale deals.  If we would have repeated a high seed or even just a second round exit in '22, I would bet you that we would have went into the tax.  But it was obvious that next year we weren't actually on the same level of the Heat/Celtics/Bucks/Sixers.  

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

We spent all the money we could spend the following season, though.  There wasn't a path into the tax that offseason-- not until our rookies got off their rookie scale deals.  If we would have repeated a high seed or even just a second round exit in '22, I would bet you that we would have went into the tax.  But it was obvious that next year we weren't actually on the same level of the Heat/Celtics/Bucks/Sixers.  

The next season was the covid year.  We had the most players ever rostered in the NBA and most key games lost to injury/illness.  

But the point is after the ECF was the time to push chips in and make deals to make the team better.  That's what all those teams did the seasons before they had success.  I'm not just talking about retaining the same group.  When you have success you add more to the team.  Like going out and getting Jrue Holiday.  Like making the decision to part with core guys like Smart etc. for better talent, better fit.   We either didn't try to do that or we were inept.  or both.   

 

[JeffS17]

32 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The next season was the covid year.  We had the most players ever rostered in the NBA and most key games lost to injury/illness.  

But the point is after the ECF was the time to push chips in and make deals to make the team better.  That's what all those teams did the seasons before they had success.  I'm not just talking about retaining the same group.  When you have success you add more to the team.  Like going out and getting Jrue Holiday.  Like making the decision to part with core guys like Smart etc. for better talent, better fit.   We either didn't try to do that or we were inept.  or both.   

 

Yeah, I think our evaluation of the roster and where we were at is very different.  There were a lot of teams that had players missing and had to make due.  The fact is 90% of our minutes came from our core rotation.  Our top 11 in minutes played were our core rotation.  They just were not getting it done.  We played .500 ball the entire year.  The only people that think the Hawks were an injury away or some missed Covid games away from contending or making noise in the playoffs, are Hawks fans.  The front office correctly evaluated that squad.  We ran it back with the same core and could not get it done.

 

Top 11 players by minutes, 2021-2022

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The front office correctly evaluated that squad.  We ran it back with the same core and could not get it done.

This is what i don't understand.  The correctly evaluated and came to what conclusion?  

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

We either didn't try to do that or we were inept.  or both.   

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

This is what i don't understand.  The correctly evaluated and came to what conclusion?  

That they preferred to run it back vs paying to try and get even better.

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That they preferred to run it back vs paying to try and get even better.

Paying...how?  I'm not even sure what you guys mean by paying to get even better when half our roster was rookie scale deals?  We had no means to spend more, you guys are yelling at the wind lol...

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Paying...how?  I'm not even sure what you guys mean by paying to get even better when half our roster was rookie scale deals?  We had no means to spend more, you guys are yelling at the wind lol...

We traded for Delon Wright and Signed Dieng to a vet min.

Did we have our full MLE? Did we use our MLE?

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We traded for Delon Wright and Signed Dieng to a vet min.

Did we have our full MLE? Did we use our MLE?

[JeffS17]

Anyways, the goal post just keep moving here.  What I've learned is that you guys expected us to make trades happen that didn't exist or you have some fantasy we are anything like the other teams that entered the tax when we were not.  If you guys were fans of any team other than the Celtics right now, you'd likely be finding reasons to be miserable with their front offices as well.  Being highly cynical and miserable is a choice.  It seems exhausting to me so I prefer to interpret things in good faith and with a positive lens.

[macdaddy]

58 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Paying...how?  I'm not even sure what you guys mean by paying to get even better when half our roster was rookie scale deals?  We had no means to spend more, you guys are yelling at the wind lol...

I'm honestly just not following what you mean by "no means to spend more" in 21-22.   It seems to me that if that's true that's terrible mismanagement and if it's not it's lack of will to do so.   But if i understand you correctly you're saying that we both couldn't really do anything to improve and we also made the right decisions.   And i don't understand that position.

But as you say it's ancient history at this point so probably not worth talking about.   I'm just tired of watching other teams pass us by.