2023-24 NBA Free Agency 06/30 at 6PM

[Hawkish]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

The reason this analogy breaks down is that I'm not guaranteed over $200 million over the next 4 years.  Lillard is.  

I am an at will employee.  My boss can fire me for any legal reason tomorrow (he doesn't like my wardrobe, he thinks I'm not worth my salary, etc.) and not owe me a penny.

Lillard could negotiate a non-guaranteed contract where either side can terminate it at any time and be just like me.  He can be like Bradley Beal and only sign a contract with a no trade clause. Then if he is traded he can walk.  But he doesn't do that because he wants his $200 million to be guaranteed.  By signing a guaranteed contract WITHOUT a no trade clause he puts himself in the position to get traded.  

If you tell me that I have to go work for Wal-Mart but that I'm guaranteed $200 million over the next 4 years, you can believe I'm moving to Little Rock or whereever they want me.

Exactly— Players get the security of the contract while expecting teams not to have the security of the asset.  Hypocritical — CBA needs to be adjusted.

[Hawkish]

36 minutes ago, ABH said:

Seconded — Let the wax of the Dame Flame burn out.  

[Afro]

I think the reason *behind* why Dame only wants to go to Miami is my biggest issue with him(I still think it's shitty to say I only want to go one place too) 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Afro

[ShooterSays]

And I guarantee every last one of you would be up in your feelings if this was Trae demanding a trade to LA.

[ABH]

1 minute ago, ShooterSays said:

And I guarantee every last one of you would be up in your feelings if this was Trae demanding a trade to LA.

Won't be long I'm afraid

[macdaddy]

I don't understand what you guys want from the guy?  He hasn't said anything publicly.  As kg said he hasn't refused to play games.   You think he's just supposed to say 'Hey i'll play anywhere.  sure i'm getting old and only have a few good years left but yeah send me to the Rockets i don't care'.   

I mean this is his life.  

[JeffS17]

11 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

Scenario:

Your boss comes up to you today and tells you, you are being traded to Wal-Mart. You have no say, it's happened, and you have to go help Walmart be the best company. Has your now previous employer upheld their part of your contract to work for them? 

Professional sports athletes are the only profession we have that can be traded between companies without any input from the 'employee', and nobody cares. It's actually the opposite, we tell the athletes to deal with it and play their hardest for the new team. 

I fully support any athlete using any leverage they have to put themselves in a favorable position. Especially one like Dame, who has done everything he can to be loyal to Portland and win a Championship for them. He stayed multiple times when the whole league was telling him to force his way out or leave in free agency, now Portland has to reward that loyalty. 

An equivalent situation for a lay person is to sign up to be a traveling nurse under a guaranteed contract of $75/hr with a guaranteed 40 hours per week.  You know your first gig is in Kansas City for 1 year but 6 months in they tell you to go to Chicago where there's a bigger need.  You just go to Chicago -- you don't get a say in and you don't get to tell your employer you want to work in LA.

It's even more egregious in the NBA because they have a players union that negotiates the contract rules and structure... and Dame actually had a ton of leverage to negotiate his contract however he wanted (i.e NTC) whereas most of us are in fairly commoditized jobs where leverage isn't high.

[Final_quest]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

The reason this analogy breaks down is that I'm not guaranteed over $200 million over the next 4 years.  Lillard is.  

I am an at will employee.  My boss can fire me for any legal reason tomorrow (he doesn't like my wardrobe, he thinks I'm not worth my salary, etc.) and not owe me a penny.

Lillard could negotiate a non-guaranteed contract where either side can terminate it at any time and be just like me.  He can be like Bradley Beal and only sign a contract with a no trade clause. Then if he is traded he can walk.  But he doesn't do that because he wants his $200 million to be guaranteed.  By signing a guaranteed contract WITHOUT a no trade clause he puts himself in the position to get traded.  

If you tell me that I have to go work for Wal-Mart but that I'm guaranteed $200 million over the next 4 years, you can believe I'm moving to Little Rock or whereever they want me.

Ha.  So how are all of these players forcing their way to other teams?  Additionally to teams that they prefer?  They are using the threat of not playing or playing with minimal effort to force the action.  Ben Simmons got paid to sit on the couch. 

You say that like the teams have power over the elite players that are not replaceable.  They only have that kind of power over the average players.  

[ShooterSays]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

He hasn't said anything publicly.

Um... yeah because he has an agent who does this sort of work for him behind the scenes. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Ha.  So how are all of these players forcing their way to other teams?  Additionally to teams that they prefer?  They are using the threat of not playing or playing with minimal effort to force the action.  Ben Simmons got paid to sit on the couch. 

You say that like the teams have power over the elite players that are not replaceable.  They only have that kind of power over the average players.  

Ben wanted to go to LAL....he's still in Brooklyn.

Kawhi wanted LA and ended up in Toronto.

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

And I guarantee every last one of you would be up in your feelings if this was Trae demanding a trade to LA.

Yeah because LA doesnt have any assets. lol

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, ShooterSays said:

Um... yeah because he has an agent who does this sort of work for him behind the scenes. 

 

IIRC....The initial reports indicated his preference was Miami followed by Brooklyn and another team I can't remember. So it wasn't always ONLY Miami and he'll be disgruntled otherwise.

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Um... yeah because he has an agent who does this sort of work for him behind the scenes. 

 

Again who cares though?   This is a person.  This ain't 2k.  Whenever my kids marvel at the money these guys make I always say "now imagine how much the owner of the team is making".    The owners are in control of this whole thing.  The players play by whatever rules have been established. Asking to be traded is well within any player's rights.   It's not up to the players to lookout for a team that they will no longer work for.  

And we all know that Portland is ecstatic that Dame officially wants out.  They were the ones to announce it.  They want to rebuild badly and he's in the way.  

[JeffS17]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

another team I can't remember.

Spurs lol...

[ShooterSays]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Again who cares though?   This is a person.  This ain't 2k.  Whenever my kids marvel at the money these guys make I always say "now imagine how much the owner of the team is making".    The owners are in control of this whole thing.  The players play by whatever rules have been established. Asking to be traded is well within any player's rights.   It's not up to the players to lookout for a team that they will no longer work for.  

And we all know that Portland is ecstatic that Dame officially wants out.  They were the ones to announce it.  They want to rebuild badly and he's in the way.  

Agreed, but that's not the entirety of what he's doing though, is it? He's asking to be traded to 1 team. One.

Not here's 5 teams, go out and get the best offer, he's giving them 1 team. One.

And that's why you get this -

Dame will get all his money and eventually Portland will trade him to Miami at a discount. Portland fans will lose as well.

[JeffS17]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The owners are in control of this whole thing.  The players play by whatever rules have been established. Asking to be traded is well within any player's rights.   

This is one situation where I don't really agree.  The NBAPA is a pretty strong union.  In fact, NBA players are a part of a tiny tiny minority of the labor force that has considerable power in relation to ownership.  Most of us have zero.

 

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Asking to be traded is well within any player's rights.

100% agree.  And it's perfectly O.K. for a team to say "No."

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Again who cares though?   This is a person.  This ain't 2k.  Whenever my kids marvel at the money these guys make I always say "now imagine how much the owner of the team is making".    The owners are in control of this whole thing.  The players play by whatever rules have been established. Asking to be traded is well within any player's rights.   It's not up to the players to lookout for a team that they will no longer work for.  

And we all know that Portland is ecstatic that Dame officially wants out.  They were the ones to announce it.  They want to rebuild badly and he's in the way.  

If he isn't communicating to teams through his agent or otherwise that he will refuse to play for them he is fine in my book.  I don't think asking for a trade is a problem. I don't think expressing your interest or non-interest in a place is a problem.  It becomes a problem if and when  a player communicates (directly or indirectly through their agent, etc.) that they will breach their contract such as by refusing to play or refusing to give a good faith effort, etc.  This is the type of scenario like Steve Francis refusing to play for the Grizzlies except Francis wasn't under contract with them when he made that threat so it wasn't actually as problematic as if he had made it when under contract.

As long as Lillard hasn't told people he won't give a good faith effort if he is traded to them, Portland should be able to get reasonable value from any team interested and they should have plenty of suitors.  If no team other than Miami is willing to trade for him (as was suggested by someone in the media earlier) then that is a really strong sign that Dame crossed the line and communicated to teams some version of a threat that he wouldn't play for them if traded to them.

I leave it open right now as to what is actually happening because there are all kinds of misinformation and games being played.  We all know Miami benefits if teams hear that Dame will only play there so there is reason for Miami to be the ones leaking this stuff to try to scare teams off.

[macdaddy]

I don't where all this 'ethical' rules of what a player is allowed to do come from.   The owners certainly don't play by them.  If he doesn't want to play anywhere but Miami wouldn't it be worse if he didn't tell anyone that?    

Kawhi only wanted to play in LA but Spurs finally dealt him to Toronto and everyone thought the Raptors were crazy and that he wouldn't suit up for them.  Turns out he did and he also quickly left.   Raptors got a title so no one cared.  Everyone got what they wanted....well everyone except one guy.  The player who was loyal to a franchise.  Here's what Demar Derozan said after being traded 

Quote

“Be told one thing & the outcome another. Ain’t no loyalty in this game. Sell you out for a quick bit of nothing … Soon you’ll understand … Don’t disturb.”

Anyway, i'm beating a dead horse.   I don't like refusing to play but everything else a player does to protect themselves and their careers is fine by me.  

[terrell]

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

IIRC....The initial reports indicated his preference was Miami followed by Brooklyn and another team I can't remember. So it wasn't always ONLY Miami and he'll be disgruntled otherwise.

Spurs..

[LucastheThird]

46 minutes ago, AHF said:

The reason this analogy breaks down is that I'm not guaranteed over $200 million over the next 4 years.  Lillard is.  

I am an at will employee.  My boss can fire me for any legal reason tomorrow (he doesn't like my wardrobe, he thinks I'm not worth my salary, etc.) and not owe me a penny.

Lillard could negotiate a non-guaranteed contract where either side can terminate it at any time and be just like me.  Then if he is traded he can walk and sign somewhere else just like I can.

He can be like Bradley Beal and only sign a contract with a no trade clause.  

Why does he sacrifice his ability to have the freedom to leave his team at any time?  Because he wants his $200 million to be guaranteed.  By signing a guaranteed contract WITHOUT a no trade clause he puts himself in the position to get traded.  

If you tell me that I have to go work for Wal-Mart but that I'm guaranteed $200 million over the next 4 years, you can best believe I'm moving to Little Rock or wherever they want me.

So this isn't a logical reaction. 

No boss should be able to trade an employee and uproot their entire life/family to move across the country without the employee's input. The amount of money the employee is being paid is irrelevant. The owner signed the contract just the same as the employee. It's not right that only the owner has a way to get out of paying the employee, but the employee is viewed negatively when they try to place themselves in a better situation. 

We can be envious/jealous (whatever you want to call it) of their financial situation. But that doesn't mean they must be subjected to something that would make everyone else want to riot. I would be flipping tables if my company traded me to another company in Montana. 

This is the end of my rant. Not trying to derail the thread.