Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[NBASupes]

31 minutes ago, AHF said:

You could make the same argument about the dropoff being huge from Al to his backup but it is obvious to me how much better Trae makes the team offensively (and overall) and how much better Al makes teams on both ends so I don't feel like I need to make a deep dive there.  Especially considering how big the gap was (we had several seasons where  we would have been a top 3 offense with Trae and the worst in the league without him.)

Will have to let Maryland do any further clarification as I just gave my read on his post.

Fair

[Peoriabird]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You do understand how team building works. You gotta have talent. At the end of the day, the entire roster matters. Since Travis, it hasn't. Under Ferry and even BudCox, it did. The star to the 15th man mattered. Thankfully, it matters again

They also don't understand that the hawks won't get better until Trae gets better.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

They also don't understand that the hawks won't get better until Trae gets better.

This. They are so focused on the starters but nothing matters if Trae is playing like an idiot as usual. He has to get a lot better 

[Peoriabird]

What's so confusing Spud?  Trae received a max contract and did not even make the all start team as a replacement.  Think about that for a second

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

What's so confusing Spud?  Trae received a max contract and did not even make the all start team as a replacement.  Think about that for a second

Not just a max, a max with destination. That's a young supermax. 

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Not just a max, a max with destination. That's a young supermax. 

What don't these guys understand about last season?  Trae's TS numbers were career lows outside of his rookie season.  That Ain't Hunter's fault.  And placing these imaginary super stars players around him ain't going change the Hawk's fortunes unless he plays better

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What don't these guys understand about last season?  Trae's TS numbers were career lows outside of his rookie season.  That Ain't Hunter's fault.  And placing these imaginary super stars players around ain't going change the Hawk's fortunes unless he plays better

I didn't realize this was still Usman's. This ain't the place but in the other thread, I'll address.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Cuz Curry is an all world defender? Pulllleassse. Seems like You’re not giving Trae his due for improving about 60% last year alone. The dude was fighting on D. Did you watch many of our games? If you had you wouldn’t type that bs. 

Shame on you.

He doesn't excel at defense so stop it!

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Cuz Curry is an all world defender? Pulllleassse. Seems like You’re not giving Trae his due for improving about 60% last year alone. The dude was fighting on D. Did you watch many of our games? If you had you wouldn’t type that bs. 

Shame on you.

Curry is Dennis Rodman on defense compared to Trae.

Trae was still horrendous on D last year. He was protected by Murray and Dre. Murray damn near died and couldn't even defend at some point of dying protecting WOAT on defense. I am not even asking much from WOAT on that end. My issue with WOAT is where's he's supposed to be elite at, on offense. That's where he needs the most improvement. Defensively, he's WOAT, he don't have much upside to be expecting much. 

Trae needs to be a superior decision maker, much better at time management, understanding how to run the offense and understand where players want the ball and want their shots. I want him to take from Mike Bibby and Steve Nash and not just the highlights of the two but the mental side of the two.

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Curry is Dennis Rodman on defense compared to Trae.

Uh huh, like Torrey Craig is a generational defender.. and Alice Horford is better than Karl Malone, and OJ Mayo would have worked in the “right system”.. 

comon guy I been here a minute. It’s Supes reality vs what’s real.

[Spud2nique]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He doesn't excel at defense so stop it!

Did I say he excels? No but I’m saying Supes acting like Curry and Nash were so much better? They didn’t make any all defensive teams in my recollection. So then it’s an eye test on how they play D. Trae improved significantly last year and Supes refuses to recognize it.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Uh huh, like Torrey Craig is a generational defender.. and Alice Horford is better than Karl Malone, and OJ Mayo would have worked in the “right system”.. 

He was for a couple seasons as a perimeter defender. 

It's Al and absolutely  

He would have if traded at the right time to the right situation which Atlanta was at the time. We were using Iso Joe to be the PG that year. Mayo would have been perfect guarding PGs while playing SG next to Iso Joe. He was still at this best at that time.

[warcore]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

something that is totally obvious to outsiders

everything is obvious to the Outsiders

 

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Trae is being paid like a superstar and he isn't one.

Neither are Jeremy Grant or FVV.

[AHF]

6 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

What's so confusing Spud?  Trae received a max contract and did not even make the all start team as a replacement.  Think about that for a second

This is a bad argument, Peo.  He was offered a spot on the All-Star team and turned it down.  This is the second time he has done it.  I can't imagine what difference it would make to the team if he was now a 1x All-Star starter and a 2x All-Star reserve as most players would be (since it is rare for a player to turn down an All-Star invite).  He would have been an All-Star last season had he done what most people do.  And it wouldn't have made us one bit better or worse.

[RedDawg#8]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is a bad argument, Peo.  He was offered a spot on the All-Star team and turned it down.  This is the second time he has done it.  I can't imagine what difference it would make to the team if he was now a 1x All-Star starter and a 2x All-Star reserve as most players would be (since it is rare for a player to turn down an All-Star invite).  He would have been an All-Star last season had he done what most people do.  And it wouldn't have made us one bit better or worse.

2x All Star Starter 

Edited July 2, 2023 by RedDawg#8

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

2x All Star Starter 

Sorry - you are right.  If he just accepted reserve invitations like most players he would be a 4x All-Star right now.  Frankly, I think he should have accepted those spots but I care much more about him putting in the work this offseason to restore his shooting after last year and to continue to improve his defense.  How many All-Star appearances  he has made just isn't big on my list of issues especially given the two invites he turned down.

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I just get so tired of this fan base blaming the rest of the roster for something that is totally obvious to outsiders.  Trae is being paid like a superstar and he isn't one.

You and I agree an awful lot but then you go and say something like this.

 

I have friends all over from different NBA cities. To a man they all say they with they had Trae Young.  I have a friend from New York who says he absolutely hates Trae Young and at the same time hates that he isn't a Knick.  Trae is a must see villain to a lot of NBA fans.  Many of them admit that if he played in LA or Boston, he'd shoot 10 more free throws a game and lead the league in every offensive category. 

 

If he were traded tomorrow, I'd still be a fan of the Hawks, but I'd be afraid every time he came to State Farm he'd hang 40/15 on us. Trae is like that little princess from Wreck it Ralph.  Every time you think you've got him beat, he glitches and blinks through the wall.  People hate him because they don't understand how he does what he does to their team.

Trae's current pace in points and assists slates him to be top 10 all time in both categories. If (and its a big if with point guards), he plays to 35, Trae could reasonably finish top 2 in assists all time and finish top 10 in points.  That's a superstar my friend.

The man has played 5 NBA seasons, 70.6 games per year. He's totaled 8990 points and 3285 assists. Top 10 in points is 27,490, Moses Malone.  That's possible.  Top 10 in assists is Isaiah Thomas at 9061.  One referee's ankle kept him from the finals in his 3rd season. Rules changes were made specifically because he was looking like a video game exploit. When the league changes their offenses rules in response to you, you're a superstar. Its that simple.

[Peoriabird]

I guess its fruitless to restate what has already been stated that Trae offensive metrics are not elite or comparable to true superstars like Jokic because it will fall on def ears.  The argument that @NBASupes and I are making is that in order to be equal to Jokic, Trae's offensive metrics would have to be far better because Jokic has an impact defensively especially as a rebounder.  Trae offensive metrics alone are no where near prime curry so the argument should stop there.  But it won't.  Posters will quote raw stats and taught them as proof of Trae's greatness. @AHF knows exactly what I'm talking about but he is a clever lawyer who wants to stay in good standing with the blind Trae fans.  If Trae played like he did 2 years ago, the Hawks would have easily been a 50 plus win team and may have been more relevant in the playoff because aside from John Collins on offense and Clint on defense, everyone else on the team played better.    Paul George is not going to make Trae better and would probably only make the team marginally better if Trae plays like he did last year.  The focus should be on Trae becoming this players that we all think he can become.  I really hope that @NBASupes is right about Murray in regards to his defense.  If he is, then this will be a pretty good team for years to come.

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I guess its fruitless to restate what has already been stated that Trae offensive metrics are not elite or comparable to true superstars like Jokic because it will fall on def ears.  The argument that @NBASupes and I are making is that in order to be equal to Jokic, Trae's offensive metrics would have to be far better because Jokic has an impact defensively especially as a rebounder.  Trae offensive metrics alone are no where near prime curry so the argument should stop there.  But it won't.  Posters will quote raw stats and taught them as proof of Trae's greatness. @AHF knows exactly what I'm talking about but he is a clever lawyer who wants to stay in good standing with the blind Trae fans.  If Trae played like he did 2 years ago, the Hawks would have easily been a 50 plus win team and may have been more relevant in the playoff because aside from John Collins on offense and Clint on defense, everyone else on the team played better.    Paul George is not going to make Trae better and would probably only make the team marginally better if Trae plays like he did last year.  The focus should be on Trae becoming this players that we all think he can become.  I really hope that @NBASupes is right about Murray in regards to his defense.  If he is, then this will be a pretty good team for years to come.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

I have friends all over from different NBA cities.

Oooohhhhhhh… is that a fact? 

 

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

To a man they all say they with they had Trae Young. 

Who are they Mike Tyson, they all withhhh(sh). 

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

superstar

I agree with this. Trae has always been a superstar from day 1.