Hawks looking to trade

[gurpilo]

hace 42 minutos, NBASupes dijo:

The cost of those guys is outrageous. The trade market is a seller market unless you are the Hawks, in that case, they are low balling the f*** out of you. A big part of this is the Kevin and JC trades were seen as cost cutting so teams see Atlanta as cost cutting. This is on Tony. He f***ed up his team with always trying to avoid the LT. 

I understand that Melton and Dortz price might be high, I would trade Bey or Hunter or both for any of them.

Another player that would be a perfect addition is Josh Hart.

[AtLaS]

49 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Now they finally get into it . . at the end of the show

• Bobby Marks trade proposal:  D. Russell - Hood-schifino - 2028 1st rd . . . for Dejounte

They all agree that it's a great trade for the Lakers, but bad for the Hawks.  But Perk agrees with it because of the 1st round pick and that money may come off the books if they do the deal.  Just on the surface, trading Dejounte for a pick and 2 other PGs, when we already have a young rookie combo guard, is an absolutely HORRIBLE deal.

D-Lo + JHS will make almost 23 mill combined next season . . IF . . Russell takes the 18.6 mill player option this summer.  If not, that's money coming off the books for the Hawks.  Considering that D-Lo only got a 2yr / 36m in his last deal, I don't see him rolling the dice and trying to get a larger contract in free agency.

The only upside from a deal like this, would be from a team salary perspective.  Which, unfortunately, might be right up Ressler's alley.

I just don't get it.  Why are we in a rush to trade Murray?  We aren't going to get a player better than him in return, and he's locked in for the next 4 years on a good contract.  Sit back and make teams make good offers, no need to be in a rush to move Murray.  We aren't contending this season no matter what happens.

Not to mention, this offer is complete garbage.  A 2028 first?  For a player of Murray's caliber on a good contract?  I hope this is a joke.

[shakes]

55 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's struggling against size and they are having issues rebounding. The fact that Chet can stretch the floor means He's a great fit with Clint. 

If they want Clint, give up the LAC 1st. We aren't giving him away. 

I watch a lot of OKC games.  There is zero chance they would trade for Clint and then put him in the starting lineup. zero.    They have a great thing going and it relies on lots of movement and cutters.  Zero chance they bring in a non shooting big like Clint unless it is to bring him off the bench.

Capela is a terrible fit with Chet.  Chet stretches the floor but he also drives the paint.  Can't do that with CLint standing in the way.

[gurpilo]

hace 7 minutos, TheNorthCydeRises dijo:

JJ has skills that a lot of 3s possess.  He can pass.  He's shooting 40% from 3.  He obviously can rebound.  He should be playing a 3/4 combo forward spot, in which the Hawks can go big at any time, and still not see things suffer with JJ at the 3.

Can't even knock him for his 3 point shooting any more, seeing that he's making them right now at a 40% clip.  If anything, his defense might get better at the 3, because of his length. 

At the 4, he still struggles at times vs bigger guys.  And because the Hawks poorly rebound the basketball, his DFG% takes a hit at the 4 because he's one of the only guys trying to challenge shots after offensive rebounds.

 

I have heard Hawks want to get bigger, they are thinking moving JJ to SF. OO is a perfect fit for him at PF.

Currently we have good ofensive players and few good defensive players.

A starting 5 with a star offensive PG (Trae),a good defensive SG (Josh Hart), a point forward at SF with size (JJ), a Big snd strong PF that os a good defender (OO) and a star offensive center (KAT) is a good fit.

Bench needs to include a good defensive guarde (Delon or Melton) and another 2 good defenders at Forward position and C. Rest can be shooters. That team would be a good fit.

[Mikey]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Houston kept the pick because Cam was falling. They were going to trade it for Clint. I still think Clint can command a 1st. As I said eariler, teams are low balling the Hawks for everyone. 

They don't care about the media. They have an approach that the media is not their friends. That's why most of Atlanta details are coming from other GMs. 

Teams think he’s washed and the film pretty much backs it up. They held too long should have done something. Houston still interested but I’d be shocked they give up anything valuable. They could take Landale expiring and maybe Tate if they are lucky 

[Sothron]

Yes @JeffS17 you have summed up why KAT is going to be traded. It is just a question of where. He knows it. the entire MIN fanbase knows it as well. It sucks but it is what it is. The 2nd apron is death to any franchise especially a non major market one.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, Jody23 said:

hospital mop offers.

that's a new one for me

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Yes @JeffS17 you have summed up why KAT is going to be traded. It is just a question of where. He knows it. the entire MIN fanbase knows it as well. It sucks but it is what it is. The 2nd apron is death to any franchise especially a non major market one.

2nd apron is death to anyone. They take your damn 1st away as a repeater. It's gonna change 2k especially. 

Edited January 18 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Teams think he’s washed and the film pretty much backs it up. They held too long should have done something. Houston still interested but I’d be shocked they give up anything valuable. They could take Landale expiring and maybe Tate if they are lucky 

He ain't washed, he's regressed. Washed is VC in his last year in Atlanta. Capela is still effective but he's just not as good as he used to be.

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I have heard Hawks want to get bigger, they are thinking moving JJ to SF. OO is a perfect fit for him at PF.

Currently we have good ofensive players and few good defensive players.

A starting 5 with a star offensive PG (Trae),a good defensive SG (Josh Hart), a point forward at SF with size (JJ), a Big snd strong PF that os a good defender (OO) and a star offensive center (KAT) is a good fit.

Bench needs to include a good defensive guarde (Delon or Melton) and another 2 good defenders at Forward position and C. Rest can be shooters. That team would be a good fit.

Where you heard Atlanta wanting to move JJ to 3. They aren't willing to do it now and got Bey who can't defend 3s there. JJ is best on defense around the paint or hovering. You take away his best strengths trying to use him like Dre. 

JJ is not a 3. He's a tweener 4 like Smoove was. 

Edited January 18 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Vol4ever said:

Thats about right.  Teams know the Hawks are desperate and not going to offer real deals, Imo.  What a colossal F up.  

when we scream 

.

....it comes across as cutting salary.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I wish we could push back JCs TPE another week. 

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

When does it expire?

June 26th 2024 (at least that was the date of the trade in 2023)

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Day of the draft 

the draft is June 27th, 2024

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

 

June 26th 2024 (at least that was the date of the trade in 2023)

the draft is June 27th, 2024

For some reason I thought his trade was on the 27th. 

[NBASupes]

I wish Landry would stop pissing us off and pull Murray off the market and will revisit in the offseason during the draft. Ain't no one available. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Just on the surface, trading Dejounte for a pick and 2 other PGs, when we already have a young rookie combo guard, is an absolutely HORRIBLE deal.

D-Lo + JHS will make almost 23 mill combined next season

Exactly.

Plus DJ will be making $24 mil next season so there is no team saving there plus Murray has a 15% trade kicker that the Hawks are on the hook for.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

A big part of this is the Kevin and JC trades were seen as cost cutting so teams see Atlanta as cost cutting. This is on Tony. He f***ed up his team with always trying to avoid the LT. 

I called it then....when the perception is ALWAYS get under the tax, it becomes the reality.  IDIOTS!!!!

@Wretch

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Alright, I spent a little time with the Minny cap situation, because I think I'm starting to form a view on our path forward.  We need to stand pat on DJ.  We need to hold him until the offseason and go absolutely all-in on KAT.  I don't see another path for us that's anything better than just good.  

Here's the situation Minny faces next season, as I'm sure our FO is keenly aware.  They have three massive extensions kicking in: Ant, KAT, and McDaniels.  They have 8 dudes locked in next year and are already sitting at $172M in salary.  That's the luxury floor.  The second apron is at $180M -- I cannot imagine it's tenable for this franchise to go into the second apron, and even if they wanted to pay it, they're not going to be able to tool the roster to be competitive because of the significant restrictions of going above the second apron.  This isn't a well-rounded 3-headed hydra like we've seen some rosters manage.  This is two centers eating up $90M+ of cap space.  So with 5 roster slots to fill in, it's untenable for Minny to stand pat under any circumstance.  They're keeping Edwards, and I'd be shocked if they were to move McDaniels.  And I doubt they'll move Gobert because of the trade optics, so it has to be KAT.

We need to hold on until the offseason and go all-in on KAT.  Murray would fit that squad well and excel as a roaming free safety type of PG defender with Gobert anchoring.  He'd be good offensively with Ant and because he lives in the midrange, Gobert clogging the paint isn't an issue for him.  It's a perfect fit and we get KAT to pair with Trae.  I see this as the clear and best direction to try to move towards.  I don't see any other realistic scenarios to get us out of the massive predicament we've landed ourselves in.  @Sothron, you're the Minny guy, let me know if I've missed anything.  Below is their cap situation going into next year:

 

 

As I said yesterday, Naz Reid is the guy they may move, if they are that worried about the 2nd apron.   Naz is actually an important piece to their team, with his ability to stretch the floor from the 4/5 spot, and be "KAT-lite".

I just don't think that the 2nd apron is going to be the end all deterrent that people think it will, as long as teams don't go well into the 2nd apron.  Every time the NBA puts something in place to try to promote "competitive financial balance", the owners who don't give a damn about it, find ways to still do whatever they want to do.

If Minnesota makes an attempt to move Naz Reid, look for a move like Reid + 2nd rd for Kelly Olynyk.  They might even offer Utah a 1st rd pick, just to sweeten the pot to swap guys who are similar offensive players.

Olynyk is a UFA at the end of the season, and if they let him walk, that reduces their cap hit by 12 million.  At that point, you can use the vet min to round out your roster + maybe add one more low cost vet player to keep with their core team.   It keeps you under the 2nd Apron, and Minny can "run it back", if they made a significant playoff run.

 

Also, Minnesota will potentially be a 2nd apron team for only 1 year.  Tax threshhold goes from 172 mill to 189 mill in 2025 - 26.  If the T-Wolves do nothing, they take the big hit next season, but get immediate relieve in 2026.

 

 

My predictions if Wolves make the WC Finals or further:

• Wolves deal Reed to Utah for Kelly Olynyk before the trade deadline
• They let all UFA's fall off the books
• Wolves then re-sign Mike Conley at the vet min
• Wolves sign a "Bruno-like" low cost center to replace Olynyk
• They round out the team with their 1st rd pick, minimum contracts and 2-way players ( ala what Phoenix did this season )
• Wolves go into next season as 1st apron tax payers only, and run it back.

 

I LOVE the strategy of trying to use DJ in the offseason to get KAT.  But Minnesota is by no means dead in the water.  They have a way out of this, only if their new ownership is willing to run it back with a championship caliber squad and if they're willing to pay some tax in the 1st apron.

A 1st round Minnesota flame out is what all Hawks fans need to root for.

 

 

Edited January 18 by TheNorthCydeRises

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

I called it then....when the perception is ALWAYS get under the tax, it becomes the reality.  IDIOTS!!!!

@Wretch

You did. You called it then. You can't keep doing it because teams think that's all you are about is cap savings. Tony gonna have to eat the bullet. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

As I said yesterday, Naz Reid is the guy they may move, if they are that worried about the 2nd apron.   Naz is actually an important piece to their team, with his ability to stretch the floor from the 4/5 spot, and be "KAT-lite".

I just don't think that the 2nd apron is going to be the end all deterrent that people think it will, as long as teams don't go well into the 2nd apron.  Every time the NBA puts something in place to try to promote "competitive financial balance", the owners who don't give a damn about it, find ways to still do whatever they want to do.

If Minnesota makes an attempt to move Naz Reid, look for a move like Reid + 2nd rd for Kelly Olynyk.  They might even offer Utah a 1st rd pick, just to sweeten the pot to swap guys who are similar offensive players.

Olynyk is a UFA at the end of the season, and if they let him walk, that reduces their cap hit by 12 million.  At that point, you can use the vet min to round out your roster + maybe add one more low cost vet player to keep with their core team.   It keeps you under the 2nd Apron, and Minny can "run it back", if they made a significant playoff run.

 

Also, Minnesota will potentially be a 2nd apron team for only 1 year.  Tax threshhold goes from 172 mill to 189 mill in 2025 - 26.  If the T-Wolves do nothing, they take the big hit next season, but get immediate relieve in 2025.

 

 

My predictions if Wolves make the WC Finals or further:

• Wolves deal Reed to Utah for Kelly Olynyk before the trade deadline
• They let all UFA's fall off the books
• Wolves then re-sign Mike Conley at the vet min
• Wolves sign a "Bruno-like" low cost center to replace Olynyk
• They round out the team with their 1st rd pick, minimum contracts and 2-way players ( ala what Phoenix did this season )
• Wolves go into next season as 1st apron tax payers only, and run it back.

 

I LOVE the strategy of trying to use DJ in the offseason to get KAT.  But Minnesota is by no means dead in the water.  They have a way out of this, only if their new ownership is willing to run it back with a championship caliber squad and if they're willing to pay some tax in the 1st apron.

A 1st round Minnesota flame out is what all Hawks fans need to root for.

 

 

Reid is outplaying his contract. And they would still be in a tough position as they don't have a MLE at all to resign Conley. 

It's going to be KAT. He's currently paid correctly but at 50 mil or more and potentially pay him 61 million at 31 and he's not as good as he used to be either. He too has regressed a bit. Come on, you can't be serious. 

Bro, KAT is the one on the outs. Believe me, McDaniels, Gobert, and Ant will have plenty of suitors. KAT and that contract won't. Just the Hawks and the Knicks. The same two teams 

[Chrimturn]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

As I said yesterday, Naz Reid is the guy they may move, if they are that worried about the 2nd apron.   Naz is actually an important piece to their team, with his ability to stretch the floor from the 4/5 spot, and be "KAT-lite".

I just don't think that the 2nd apron is going to be the end all deterrent that people think it will, as long as teams don't go well into the 2nd apron.  Every time the NBA puts something in place to try to promote "competitive financial balance", the owners who don't give a damn about it, find ways to still do whatever they want to do.

If Minnesota makes an attempt to move Naz Reid, look for a move like Reid + 2nd rd for Kelly Olynyk.  They might even offer Utah a 1st rd pick, just to sweeten the pot to swap guys who are similar offensive players.

Olynyk is a UFA at the end of the season, and if they let him walk, that reduces their cap hit by 12 million.  At that point, you can use the vet min to round out your roster + maybe add one more low cost vet player to keep with their core team.   It keeps you under the 2nd Apron, and Minny can "run it back", if they made a significant playoff run.

 

Also, Minnesota will potentially be a 2nd apron team for only 1 year.  Tax threshhold goes from 172 mill to 189 mill in 2025 - 26.  If the T-Wolves do nothing, they take the big hit next season, but get immediate relieve in 2025.

 

 

My predictions if Wolves make the WC Finals or further:

• Wolves deal Reed to Utah for Kelly Olynyk before the trade deadline
• They let all UFA's fall off the books
• Wolves then re-sign Mike Conley at the vet min
• Wolves sign a "Bruno-like" low cost center to replace Olynyk
• They round out the team with their 1st rd pick, minimum contracts and 2-way players ( ala what Phoenix did this season )
• Wolves go into next season as 1st apron tax payers only, and run it back.

 

I LOVE the strategy of trying to use DJ in the offseason to get KAT.  But Minnesota is by no means dead in the water.  They have a way out of this, only if their new ownership is willing to run it back with a championship caliber squad and if they're willing to pay some tax in the 1st apron.

A 1st round Minnesota flame out is what all Hawks fans need to root for.

 

 

And if they did dip into the 2nd apron, they wouldn’t have to pay the penalty until the end of that season.  So they could buy some time….(waiting at least until that years trade deadline)…to figure out how to either get some relief and go back under or come up with a solution on how to pay it.  Is that right?