I've been watching the 2024 NBA Draft class and it's been... weaker than usual

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, benhillboy said:

What’s up with Bronny besides making me feel old as dirt?  I’ve never seen him play but his passing and defensive IQ better be off the damn charts.  Its so weird seeing him listed at 6’4” 210 like bruh we literally watched you grow from a baby to a large ass mfer.

He's bad and it's tough to take anyone seriously that talks about him as a realistic draft pick because of his ability.  Not sure how he can be a winner based on the combine, maybe he moved up on peoples boards from top 100 to top 75.  The reporting I'm seeing on him is crazy, Lebron's pull around the league runs deeper than I thought

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Sideshow freaks! Come see baby Lebron and my Giant!  #thengoseethebeardedlady

[bird_dirt]

18 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

He's bad and it's tough to take anyone seriously that talks about him as a realistic draft pick because of his ability.  Not sure how he can be a winner based on the combine, maybe he moved up on peoples boards from top 100 to top 75.  The reporting I'm seeing on him is crazy, Lebron's pull around the league runs deeper than I thought

The only possible win I see is that he was medically cleared to play in the NBA. 

[Hawkish]

23 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Sabonis and Huerter for #1 and Hunter who says no? 

Ha— Sabonis, Fox, Huerter, and Co. couldn’t get them to the playoffs this year.

[kg01]

18 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

All first year basketball players grow a few inches in the off season, and all first year football players put on 15 lbs of muscle in the off-season. Unless they are complete busts, in which case they didn't grow or put on muscle. 

Aaaaaannnnd time!

Took you waay too long to respond, bleachk.  Had this been about Cam Reddish, you would've cut that response time in half.  Is father time finally catching up to bkit?   

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Hawkish said:

Ha— Sabonis, Fox, Huerter, and Co. couldn’t get them to the playoffs this year.

It cost us their pick too, hey throw that back to them in the deal too why not, they get that pick back.

Trae and Sabonis is the finals.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Who says our mod can’t count to ..

.. 

Yeah, yeah.  I just listed the people we’ve discussed taking at some point.  No point guards, etc.

[Hawkish]

27 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

It cost us their pick too, hey throw that back to them in the deal too why not, they get that pick back.

Trae and Sabonis is the finals.

I suppose I was indirectly suggesting we wouldn’t be much better than they are now.

[bleachkit]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Aaaaaannnnd time!

Took you waay too long to respond, bleachk.  Had this been about Cam Reddish, you would've cut that response time in half.  Is father time finally catching up to bkit?   

Maybe im losing my fast ball

[JTB]

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

How many centers will go out to guard him? None

lol you have to give the kid a bit of a break. He is only 19 and it’s a known fact that his offense is a work in progress as a whole. The only people who are saying he can shoot well are his fans that tend to say he can do everything well. We all know his offensive game has to be developed.

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 How many centers will just bully him? All

well I for one have already stated this. It’s actually one of my biggest fears of drafting sarr, the kid does not have his grown man strength yet. That being said he’s not truly a center either, nor is he PF or SF…..the guy is truly a tweener which I really like about him because it’s incredibly rare to see a legit 7 footer with that kind of speed , move his feet well and actually be able to play time at any front court position.

personally I don’t think sarr will ever be primarily set to just one position. It would do him a disservice. Lots of lineups you can do with sarr in the future once he develops.

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

How many centers can he legit deal consistent contact from? None

again he’s 19 he has to grow into his body and get his strength up. In my opinion he’s not ready to deal with the center physicality year 1 but that doesn’t mean he can avoid it either . I do wish he lovers where more realistic about what he will bring year 1 instead of trying to make him out to be the next KG.

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll keep trying to make this work in your head but the reality is way harder.

I tried to tell Caitlin Clark fans that the WNBA perimeter defenders are levels better than college ball and every perimeter player has struggled to adjust out of college. But they had it in their mind that every WNBA defend was Hailey Van Lith with a tan. 

The NBA is HARD. 

Please take me out of the “y’all” I’ve been one of the few on the board that want Edey here because to me our biggest need is to address center and work with Trae but let’s be real….our Hawks may be talking about Edey and he could even be 1a/1b with sarr on their big board , the sad reality is I don’t believe they have the balls to make the correct move and draft whoever due to the media. The entire nba will be against the hawks and they’ll never be able to live it down.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

 

again he’s 19 he has to grow into his body and get his strength up. In my opinion he’s not ready to deal with the center physicality year 1 but that doesn’t mean he can avoid it either . I do wish he lovers where more realistic about what he will bring year 1 instead of trying to make him out to be the next KG.

 

Most of us supporters say his offense is a work in progress.  However, we believe he can help on the defensive end.

Quote

I don’t believe they have the balls to make the correct move and draft whoever due to the media. The entire nba will be against the hawks and they’ll never be able to live it down.

What team does this? Every team truely believes whoever they are taking with the first pick is the best player long term. Just because they may pick someone you wouldn't, doesn't mean it's media hype or whatever.  They do more research than anyone on the board and try to make the most informed decision.

Agree with everything else you said.

Edited May 22 by marco102

[kg01]

6 hours ago, marco102 said:

.....  They do more research than anyone on the board ....

Just here to repeat this part.  Loudly.

[theheroatl]

NBA teams also have access to players and information that we will NEVER EVER have. Not only do they work hard, they also have 100x more information than we have

 

 

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

NBA teams also have access to players and information that we will NEVER EVER have. Not only do they work hard, they also have 100x more information than we have

 

 

And, even given all that extra info, they often get it wrong.  But, when they get it wrong, they typically own it and admit the 'work' isnt infallible. 

[KB21]

Here's the thing.  Wemby was just named first team All-NBA Defense as a rookie.  He doesn't do any of the "big man" things some of you think is required for the center position.  Wemby and Chet were the top two rookies in the NBA.  Neither are traditional big men.  Evan Mobley just averaged 21 and 9 as a non-traditional center in the playoffs and was second in the NBA DPOY voting.  This is a year after Jaren Jackson Jr won DPOY as a non-traditional big.  Yeah, you can point to Rudy Gobert all you want.  There is only one Rudy Gobert.  There's Rudy Gobert, and then there are a bunch of guys who should be reserves like Zubac, Valanciunis...etc.  

Some of you are still looking at the center position and evaluating Alex Sarr through the lens of a traditional big, and you need to move on from that.  The traditional big will soon be phased out of the game.  You have to evaluate Sarr through the lens of the modern big. 

So, the debate between Clingan and Sarr is this.  Who would you rather have?  Walker Kessler, who is a reserve center in Utah, or Evan Mobley?  Because Clingan is a lot closer to Walker Kessler than he is a modern big, and Sarr is almost identical to Mobley.  

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Here's the thing.  Wemby was just named first team All-NBA Defense as a rookie.  He doesn't do any of the "big man" things some of you think is required for the center position.  Wemby and Chet were the top two rookies in the NBA.  Neither are traditional big men.  Evan Mobley just averaged 21 and 9 as a non-traditional center in the playoffs and was second in the NBA DPOY voting.  This is a year after Jaren Jackson Jr won DPOY as a non-traditional big.  Yeah, you can point to Rudy Gobert all you want.  There is only one Rudy Gobert.  There's Rudy Gobert, and then there are a bunch of guys who should be reserves like Zubac, Valanciunis...etc.  

Some of you are still looking at the center position and evaluating Alex Sarr through the lens of a traditional big, and you need to move on from that.  The traditional big will soon be phased out of the game.  You have to evaluate Sarr through the lens of the modern big. 

So, the debate between Clingan and Sarr is this.  Who would you rather have?  Walker Kessler, who is a reserve center in Utah, or Evan Mobley?  Because Clingan is a lot closer to Walker Kessler than he is a modern big, and Sarr is almost identical to Mobley.  

I think there is too much "modern" vs "obsolete" going on with the discussion of Sarr.  Different types of players can be successful.  You can have wings who are about attacking the rim and aren't that great from 3pt range or wings who can't attack the rim at all but can shoot from the perimter; wings who are defenders bad enough they need to be hidden or wings who are capable of defending multiple positions and disrupt opposing offenses; etc.  There are multiple ways up the mountain.  Joel Embiid, Rudy Gobert, and Nikola Jokic can all do traditional big man things and are huge bodies in the paint.  They are very effective today and would have been very effective in 1980.  They aren't the only model for success.  Guys like Wemby, JJJ, and others who get slapped with the "modern" label can also be successful.  That is because there isn't a monolithic model for what makes for a successful big.  Draymond Green is way smaller than traditional big men and basically gives away possessions with his ugly jump shot but has been highly successful in a way more reminiscent of Ben Wallace than Wemby, Shaq, or Duncan.  

Bigs who are more defined by strength than mobility aren't going to be entirely out of the game in 5 years.  Mobile bigs aren't going to be out of the game.  Different players with different strengths will be in the game in 5 years and part of the challenge and opportunity for coaches will be mixing and matching these pieces to find success.  

I like the idea of Sarr because he has the height, length and athleticism to bring something the Hawks have missed for a while to their front court.  I could see a world where he plays beside someone like Steven Adams in more of a "forward" than "center" role for the team
(in terms of who he guards defensively).  I could see a world where he could end up defending the opposing center every night.  I think either path is one that could be really successful if he develops the way many of the analysts project and having a switchable mobile big like that opens new doors to what this team could be defensively.  But I don't think the next Shaq or Rudy Gobert is going to have any problems finding a spot in the NBA and a theoretical age 24 Shaq vs age 24 Sarr offers the fun kind of chess match that a coach like Snyder would need his A game to win because Shaq would be extremely effective against Sarr with his strength and athleticism and a mature Sarr that develops as projected would run Shaq around the court and stretch him way outside of his comfort zone trying to guard him on the perimeter.  

To use a comparison with the name you list above, I would say that Kessler and Okongwu have had almost identical roles career to date despite fitting very different archetypes.  Kessler has started 45% of games and averaged 23.2 minutes career to date.  OO has started 15.4% of games and averaged 20.8 minutes career to date.  Their metrics are very similar:

Both have important roles they fill on their teams and we'll continue to see this with player like them even granting that one might be more or less emphasized during a particular era of the game.

The general trend has been (in large part due to rule changes and the schematic adaptation around those over time) and will continue in the near term to be a move towards more mobility but that doesn't render someone like Jokic or Gobert obsolete.  I think it does a disservice to think there is only one mold that will be relevant for the future when the history of the NBA has been shifting emphasis on certain skills and play styles during different eras but most importantly looking at any given point in the game's history you always find a mix of different models/archetypes/etc. among the successful players at a position.

[macdaddy]

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Here's the thing.  Wemby was just named first team All-NBA Defense as a rookie.  He doesn't do any of the "big man" things some of you think is required for the center position.  Wemby and Chet were the top two rookies in the NBA.  Neither are traditional big men.  Evan Mobley just averaged 21 and 9 as a non-traditional center in the playoffs and was second in the NBA DPOY voting.  This is a year after Jaren Jackson Jr won DPOY as a non-traditional big.  Yeah, you can point to Rudy Gobert all you want.  There is only one Rudy Gobert.  There's Rudy Gobert, and then there are a bunch of guys who should be reserves like Zubac, Valanciunis...etc.  

Some of you are still looking at the center position and evaluating Alex Sarr through the lens of a traditional big, and you need to move on from that.  The traditional big will soon be phased out of the game.  You have to evaluate Sarr through the lens of the modern big. 

So, the debate between Clingan and Sarr is this.  Who would you rather have?  Walker Kessler, who is a reserve center in Utah, or Evan Mobley?  Because Clingan is a lot closer to Walker Kessler than he is a modern big, and Sarr is almost identical to Mobley.  

I'm excited about our options at #1 but i have to be honest, i wish we could get someone better than an Evan Mobley at #1.  Maybe there isn't one in this draft i don't know but for the first pick i'd like a go to scorer with size. 

I really like Sarr though. 

[deester11]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

Please take me out of the “y’all” I’ve been one of the few on the board that want Edey here because to me our biggest need is to address center and work with Trae but let’s be real….our Hawks may be talking about Edey and he could even be 1a/1b with sarr on their big board , the sad reality is I don’t believe they have the balls to make the correct move and draft whoever due to the media. The entire nba will be against the hawks and they’ll never be able to live it down.

Generally the people on the board wanting Sarr(speaking for me though), acknowledge he has work to do.  Also i know he has to gain strength and an offensive game, but his potential is higher than anyone in this draft. I'm taking a chance on that knowing I may not see the results of what he can do completely for 2-3 years.  Unless a star or easily identifiable star is in this draft, upside and fit are important. Sarr does fit the modern center game and he fits the Hawks.  

The Hawks are not going to make a move based on fan group-think or the media. All of us here have an opinion and will opine. For me, Sarr is easily the right pick at 1.  Trying to fit Edey in at one is foolish. (To me)

Edited May 22 by deester11

[benhillboy]

18 hours ago, KB21 said:

He's only 6'1", and he's not good.  

Damn he’s listed on college reference at 6’4”, they let that man rock some strength shoes or some shit.

His three point frequency and percentage screams as much just needed confirmation.  Let’s go Bryce!

[KB21]

The lumbering slow bigs will absolutely be obsolete in the next five years.  There are more and more mobile bigs coming into the league, and the ones they will be replacing are your slow traditional bigs.