Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[Gray Mule]

To me, the biggest question in the upcoming draft is, who will be available when our turn comes?  

[NBASupes]

40 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

To me, the biggest question in the upcoming draft is, who will be available when our turn comes?  

Way too early. We haven't had March Madness yet. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Way too early. We haven't had March Madness yet. 

This could be a year where a big game or two on the big stage really pushes someone up 5-10 spots in the draft.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

[KB21]

I am curious to see if we get to see a showdown of Edey vs Clingan in the championship game in March.  Purdue and Connecticut are being projected to be on the opposite sides of the brackets at this moment.  

[KB21]

 

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

 

This was a year ago bro. He's added elite:

Helper

Movement

Screen setter

Which gives him elite FTA drawer 

 

This is on top of what he was at this time when Barkley is talking. 

38 minutes ago, AHF said:

This could be a year where a big game or two on the big stage really pushes someone up 5-10 spots in the draft.

I doubt it will have any value for Edey but it should for Clingan

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

This was a year ago bro. He's added elite:

Helper

Movement

Screen setter

Which gives him elite FTA drawer 

 

This is on top of what he was at this time when Barkley is talking. 

Where is the elite movement?  Because I've watched several games since this discussion started.  I was watching the replay of the Purdue/Michigan game at 3AM Sunday AM when I was up with our three-year-old.  There is nothing about his movement that is elite.  Where is this elite movement on close outs?  Where is this elite movement when he is being put into a situation where he has to hedge or touch the ball handler on the PNR?

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Where is the elite movement?  Because I've watched several games since this discussion started.  I was watching the replay of the Purdue/Michigan game at 3AM Sunday AM when I was up with our three-year-old.  There is nothing about his movement that is elite.  Where is this elite movement on close outs?  Where is this elite movement when he is being put into a situation where he has to hedge or touch the ball handler on the PNR?

Elite movement is a purely offensive term of knowing how to move off the ball. Specifically used for bigs (4 & 5). These are rollers to the basket for the most part that know how to produce exceptional PPP as rollers. 

Elite screen setters are players who set correct and quality screens that lead to high PPP if it's either for the roll or the ball handler. 

Does that help?

Bro, really stuck on his poor fluidity. I got it bro, it's a problem but it's one you can work around for sure on defense. Offensively, his strengths as an elite movement specialist, having Elite feel for the game, always moving, being a freak athlete for his size will help overcome his lack of fluidity which is needed for self creation if you have a player like Luka, Harden, or even better for Edey's type, Trae. 

I do think the PnR defense has legit upside to be better played. The close-outs are bad. No way around it. It was bad for Purdue and Team Canada.

Edited March 5 by NBASupes

[bird_dirt]

9 hours ago, KB21 said:

Just for a reference point, the Hawks under Quin this season are the 4th fastest paced team in the NBA.  

Yeah, iRobot would probably like him more than Quin. He wanted to slow everything down, more half court, less transition. I get it, that plays better in the postseason, but I think he leaned too far into that whereas Quin could stand to embrace it a little more from time to time. 

 

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

After reviewing most of the videos and reading all the arguments for and against. This is where I'm at....I can't say I will be comfortable taking him top 10.

I wouldn’t either. I would be comfortable With maybe taking him with the Sac pick, or a trade down pick. Use our first pick for a more athletic, higher upside wing or big. 
Even his biggest supporter Supes admits he doesn’t fit with many other teams at all, so he won’t be ranked high on many draft boards. If we took him high, it would be like bidding against ourselves for him.

I do think Edey could be good with Trae like Supes says, but IDK if the total package is good enough to warrant extended minutes. Use a later pick on him with the expectation that he could develop into a good backup/situational big, and be happily surprised if he turns into more. 

[NBASupes]

 

 

[NBASupes]

@AHF, @Spud2nique, @Sothron, @JayBirdHawk, @KB21, @Mikey, @bird_dirt, @Gray Mule, @givemesome1ce1, @benhillboy, @capstone21, @Bonkers, @terrell, @Plainview1981, @Peoriabird, @Final_quest @Spud2nique @txsting @Wretch @thecampster @cam1218 @REHawksFan @ShooterSays @Hawkish @shakes

Simple Scouting Report on Zach Edey:

Offensive Player Type:

• Original: A big player who excels in movement rim finishing with a hint of post-up quality.
• Future: A big player who excels in movement rim finishing with elements of post-up and catch & shoot (C&S) qualities.

New Analysis:

• Current: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. However, his fluidity limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low post.
• Future: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. His fluidity, however, limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low-post, with potential for catch and shoot.

NBA Comparisons: He doesn’t have any direct comparisons.

Weakness Comparison: Edy Tavares - Only Edy and Edey have exhibited poor fluidity as NBA players entering the league. While Edy is a good athlete for his size, Edey is a freakish athlete for his size.

Offense - Favorable Comparison: Karl Malone, albeit with differences. Neither player was anticipated to produce offensively at an exceptionally high level. Both possess tremendous strength, superior movement, and relentless energy. Neither has a particularly strong post-game, with most of their work done before receiving the ball. Malone is more fluid and uses agility a lot, but Edey is much larger and uses brute force for positioning and his mental acuity for his success as a low-post scorer. Both are elite screeners and have a terrific feel for rolling off the PnR. Both qualify as spammers in how they score. Doesn't seem like they are really good but the production is there. This is not by mistake. This is what being relentless and having a high motor looks like and their passion is scoring. 

 

 

 

Both players can be seen as garbagemen, but unlike Horford, who is also a garbageman, both possess an elite scoring mentality as their primary focus. Malone has clear advantages such as transition offense and a proven 15ft jumper from his time at LA Tech. Despite unimpressive college stats in his junior season which got worse each year, Malone had no spacing at LA Tech, and teams sold out to guard him in the paint. Edey, on the other hand, has the size advantage and superior basketball IQ. He generally adapts far more quickly to defensive strategies than Malone.

 

Defense Comparison - Favorable Comparison: A less effective version of Rudy Gobert. He can protect the rim and paint like Rudy and boxes out better than Rudy. However, his poor fluidity is a significant drawback. His close-outs, switches, and rebounding radius are all subpar. He has a mental advantage and is older than Gobert as a prospect, but he doesn’t have the same upside as Rudy. Both are drop defenders, which may limit the teams interested in them as prospects. I’ve talked to one scout and listened to another who thinks Edey’s best NBA strength is on defense based on their review of the tape. This was the comparison both gave me.

Offensive Comparison - Less Favorable: It’s challenging to find a direct comparison. Most basketball players don’t exhibit the same combination of mental strength, movement skills, and finishing ability. When you consider body control, hand skills, and strength, Luis Scola comes to mind as the closest comparison. However, Scola lacks the athletic prowess that Edey possesses for his size.

Defensive Comparison - Less Favorable: The comparison here is straightforward - Edy Tavares, but a wealthy man’s version. Despite fluidity being the issue, he still possesses elite mental acuity and is more athletic than Edy, with an additional 60 pounds as a prospect. This might still be a poor man’s version of Rudy Gobert, so it’s unclear how this is less favorable. The outcome remains the same.

 

[shakes]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

Offense - Favorable Comparison: Karl Malone,

 

 

Just stop already.    

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

 

Just stop already.    

I added everyone from every space so these comments are what I am looking for. I want everyone opinions. So lol, haha, wow, amazing, this is great, I am all ears. 

[KB21]

Edey #26 on No Ceiling's Big Board.  

[KB21]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

@AHF, @Spud2nique, @Sothron, @JayBirdHawk, @KB21, @Mikey, @bird_dirt, @Gray Mule, @givemesome1ce1, @benhillboy, @capstone21, @Bonkers, @terrell, @Plainview1981, @Peoriabird, @Final_quest @Spud2nique @txsting @Wretch @thecampster @cam1218 @REHawksFan @ShooterSays @Hawkish @shakes

Simple Scouting Report on Zach Edey:

Offensive Player Type:

• Original: A big player who excels in movement rim finishing with a hint of post-up quality.
• Future: A big player who excels in movement rim finishing with elements of post-up and catch & shoot (C&S) qualities.

New Analysis:

• Current: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. However, his fluidity limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low post.
• Future: An elite garbageman with freakish athleticism for his size, possessing superior mental attributes and exceptional physical measurements. His fluidity, however, limits his offensive potential when he has ball possession. He has superior movement skills and can execute high-level rolls. Elite Screener. His post-up play is limited unless he secures significant positioning in the low-post, with potential for catch and shoot.

NBA Comparisons: He doesn’t have any direct comparisons.

Weakness Comparison: Edy Tavares - Only Edy and Edey have exhibited poor fluidity as NBA players entering the league. While Edy is a good athlete for his size, Edey is a freakish athlete for his size.

Offense - Favorable Comparison: Karl Malone, albeit with differences. Neither player was anticipated to produce offensively at an exceptionally high level. Both possess tremendous strength, superior movement, and relentless energy. Neither has a particularly strong post-game, with most of their work done before receiving the ball. Malone is more fluid and uses agility a lot, but Edey is much larger and uses brute force for positioning and his mental acuity for his success as a low-post scorer. Both are elite screeners and have a terrific feel for rolling off the PnR. Both qualify as spammers in how they score. Doesn't seem like they are really good but the production is there. This is not by mistake. This is what being relentless and having a high motor looks like and their passion is scoring. 

 

 

 

Both players can be seen as garbagemen, but unlike Horford, who is also a garbageman, both possess an elite scoring mentality as their primary focus. Malone has clear advantages such as transition offense and a proven 15ft jumper from his time at LA Tech. Despite unimpressive college stats in his junior season which got worse each year, Malone had no spacing at LA Tech, and teams sold out to guard him in the paint. Edey, on the other hand, has the size advantage and superior basketball IQ. He generally adapts far more quickly to defensive strategies than Malone.

 

Defense Comparison - Favorable Comparison: A less effective version of Rudy Gobert. He can protect the rim and paint like Rudy and boxes out better than Rudy. However, his poor fluidity is a significant drawback. His close-outs, switches, and rebounding radius are all subpar. He has a mental advantage and is older than Gobert as a prospect, but he doesn’t have the same upside as Rudy. Both are drop defenders, which may limit the teams interested in them as prospects. I’ve talked to one scout and listened to another who thinks Edey’s best NBA strength is on defense based on their review of the tape. This was the comparison both gave me.

Offensive Comparison - Less Favorable: It’s challenging to find a direct comparison. Most basketball players don’t exhibit the same combination of mental strength, movement skills, and finishing ability. When you consider body control, hand skills, and strength, Luis Scola comes to mind as the closest comparison. However, Scola lacks the athletic prowess that Edey possesses for his size.

Defensive Comparison - Less Favorable: The comparison here is straightforward - Edy Tavares, but a wealthy man’s version. Despite fluidity being the issue, he still possesses elite mental acuity and is more athletic than Edy, with an additional 60 pounds as a prospect. This might still be a poor man’s version of Rudy Gobert, so it’s unclear how this is less favorable. The outcome remains the same.

 

Good write up.  I still can't agree on the premise that he's an elite athlete.  I just don't see it.  I'm not going to call him an oaf, but I'm also not going to call him an elite athlete.  

I think the best case scenario (90th percentile outcome) is that you have a bigger Brook Lopez if Edey can develop a three point jumper.  

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Good write up.  I still can't agree on the premise that he's an elite athlete.  I just don't see it.  I'm not going to call him an oaf, but I'm also not going to call him an elite athlete.  

I think the best case scenario (90th percentile outcome) is that you have a bigger Brook Lopez if Edey can develop a three point jumper.  

Elite athlete for size is Wemby or Shaq.  

He's a freak athlete for his size. 

Brook is one of the most fluid players in the NBA as a true center and its special at fluidity but athletically, he's average at best for his size. 

Brook was a special post player. Skilled out the ass. And once he got the rock on the block, he used to give Horford and most bigs hell. But athletically, he wasn't much to write about. He also didn't have Edey insane measureables. 

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?dir=D&sort=THREE_QUARTER_SPRINT

Brook is completely different. He's a fluid type of player. Edey is athletic and smart. 

Edited March 6 by NBASupes

[KB21]

I think I have a different definition of "freak" athlete than you do.  I just can't call him that.  

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I think I have a different definition of "freak" athlete than you do.  I just can't call him that.  

So you don't think he's a freak athlete for someone who's 7'4 306 pounds? 

How many bigs are this athletic taller than 7+?

Then add how many bigs are this athletic 300 pounds+? 

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

So you don't think he's a freak athlete for someone who's 7'4 306 pounds? 

How many bigs are this athletic taller than 7+?

Then add how many bigs are this athletic 300 pounds+? 

I don't.  I don't see any explosiveness to his athleticism.  He doesn't pop.  His actions seem more deliberate to me.  I don't see any quick twitch to him.  This is part of the reason why I believe that unless you are truly special and have elite shooting/passing like Joker or elite overall athleticism like Embiid, this is why guys who are this size have essentially been phased out of the NBA.