Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Also address the outlandish comments from the Edey side of things as well. 

Let me say it a different way about why I say the floor is so low with this draft class. Below are the notable picks from the 2018 draft.  Knowing those players based on both what you know now and what you thought then, who on that list are you picking Sarr ahead of? Where are you slotting him.

Pick	Player	Pos.
1	Deandre Ayton	C
2	Marvin Bagley III	PF
3	Luka Dončić*~	PG
4	Jaren Jackson Jr.+	PF
5	Trae Young*	PG
6	Mo Bamba	C
7	Wendell Carter Jr.	C
8	Collin Sexton	SG/PG
9	Kevin Knox II	SF
10	Mikal Bridges	SF
11	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander*	SG/PG
12	Miles Bridges	SF
14	Michael Porter Jr.	SF
17	Donte DiVincenzo	SG
19	Kevin Huerter	SG
21	Grayson Allen	SG
23	Aaron Holiday	PG
24	Anfernee Simons	SG
25	Moritz Wagner	PF
26	Landry Shamet	SG
27	Robert Williams III	PF/C
33	Jalen Brunson+	PG
36	Mitchell Robinson	C
37	Gary Trent Jr.	SG
42	Bruce Brown	SG
45	Hamidou Diallo	SG

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I have, he didn't push back and so I let it go.  Remember, my stance is pro Edey but its not "all in Edey".  I'm not ride or die but because I think we're overvaluing the entire draft class.

If Sarr was in the same class with Trae, Bamba, Doncic, Ayton, etc...he might not have gone top 10.  Same thing with the Hunter/Reddish class and there have been multiple busts in the lottery in both classes.  So I'm not going to get all bent out of shape excited for a player who in other draft years is a solid 12.

In years with 8 players with high floors, I go for highest ceiling of those 8 players.  In years with low floors even for the top 10 picks, I go for highest floor or trade down. I've advocated for both here.  I think the floor of the players being advertised in the top 10 are all low enough not to warrant picking them at all and committing that salary to them. You commit 5-10 million a year to a rookie, you want him to be playable. I can't guarantee I can play any of them real minutes.  This year, I can't play Sarr over JJ, OO, CC or even Bruno and expect to win.  Sarr this year doesn't potentially move the needle. You go Sarr, you're going full rebuild. You are 8 million from the tax but you finished in the lottery. The player you get has to be able to play and beat out what you currently have. Very few in this draft can.  The best bet to play out of the box (IMHO) as a big in this draft are Edey and Clingan. They can get rotation minutes out of the box and not kill your team's chances of winning. I can't say the same about Sarr.

Edey is 75 lbs bigger than Sarr, 5 inches taller

Clingan is 58 lbs bigger than Sarr, 2 inches taller

OO and Bruno are 16lbs heavier, Clint 32 lbs heavier.

 

Sarr is not guarding any of the big 5's consistently.  So if you're drafting him right now, you're drafting him as a 3. Are you playing him over JJ, over Hunter....not today you aren't.

We got in trouble against 2 types of players consistently the last 2 years.  1) big centers and 2) big/big scoring PGs.  Sarr fixes neither of those. He's tall at 6'11" but he's lighter than most PFs, forget centers.

I'm not calling Edey the next coming of Wilt and I distance myself quickly from those statements but in a world where a PF/C prospect who scored 9.4 ppg and is 30 lbs undersized at least is being considered with the first pick, I'll go with the known commodity who can contribute now.

We are up against the LT and can afford to drop $10 million/year on a player who may not be able to play in the rotation.

They will be in the luxury tax if they expect to win this season any way.  Rather they trade someone or not.  No pick they are going to pick this year is going to help us win right now.  I see Sarr as a rotation piece because I don't think we have a backup four on the roster, unless you are counting on Mo Gueye, who I do like. 

If the information provided during this process says Sarr will be the best player in three years you take him let him develop in the g league or whatever and make other roster moves to make sure we are good this year.  That goes for any other prospect. 

I'm not some Sarr stan I've just been driven into this corner by the constant posting about Edey.  I just see the potential in Sarr and like the way he fits with the defensive short comings of the current roster. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, KB21 said:

Sarr’s switch ability and mobility helps immediately on defense.  

You don’t fix any defensive issues with the other choice.  
 

The draft should never be about what impact you make now.  

It does at a 4/big wing. Doesn't help at all as a 5 because he's bad at big man things like drop coverage, post up defense, paint protection, CC is undersized for paint pro and OO is really undersized. Sarr will provide as much as JJ which is none at all. 

That's just defense. Offense, it's a disaster from all positions at this stage. Of course, he has legit upside but we aren't in that stage of waiting unless he's in College Park. 

The draft is always about the impact now and later and the higher you pick, the greater the expectations 

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

They will be in the luxury tax if they expect to win this season any way.  Rather they trade someone or not.  No pick they are going to pick this year is going to help us win right now.  I see Sarr as a rotation piece because I don't think we have a backup four on the roster, unless you are counting on Mo Gueye, who I do like. 

If the information provided during this process says Sarr will be the best player in three years you take him let him develop in the g league or whatever and make other roster moves to make sure we are good this year.  That goes for any other prospect. 

I'm not some Sarr stan I've just been driven into this corner by the constant posting about Edey.  I just see the potential in Sarr and like the way he fits with the defensive short comings of the current roster. 

I think if you take Sarr, you take him as a 4 and he'll still need to develop.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Let me say it a different way about why I say the floor is so low with this draft class. Below are the notable picks from the 2018 draft.  Knowing those players based on both what you know now and what you thought then, who on that list are you picking Sarr ahead of? Where are you slotting him.

Pick	Player	Pos.
1	Deandre Ayton	C
2	Marvin Bagley III	PF
3	Luka Dončić*~	PG
4	Jaren Jackson Jr.+	PF
5	Trae Young*	PG
6	Mo Bamba	C
7	Wendell Carter Jr.	C
8	Collin Sexton	SG/PG
9	Kevin Knox II	SF
10	Mikal Bridges	SF
11	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander*	SG/PG
12	Miles Bridges	SF
14	Michael Porter Jr.	SF
17	Donte DiVincenzo	SG
19	Kevin Huerter	SG
21	Grayson Allen	SG
23	Aaron Holiday	PG
24	Anfernee Simons	SG
25	Moritz Wagner	PF
26	Landry Shamet	SG
27	Robert Williams III	PF/C
33	Jalen Brunson+	PG
36	Mitchell Robinson	C
37	Gary Trent Jr.	SG
42	Bruce Brown	SG
45	Hamidou Diallo	SG

This isn't a good faith argument.  How are you going to compare a weak draft class to one of the strongest? You take who you think is the best player in draft at number one.  That sometimes mean they aren't the player with the best stats when you draft them, but what you and the information you obtain during the process project them to be. 

I'm not all in on Sarr so don't make that mistake. I'm just 100% against certain other players at number 1. 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I think if you take Sarr, you take him as a 4 and he'll still need to develop.

The offensive side is where he def needs a lot of work. I think defensively he can make an impact day one especially on this terrible defensive team.  If he's average, he'll be an improvement over what we've thrown out there.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

This isn't a good faith argument.  How are you going to compare a weak draft class to one of the strongest? You take who you think is the best player in draft at number one.  That sometimes mean they aren't the player with the best stats when you draft them, but what you and the information you obtain during the process project them to be. 

I'm not all in on Sarr so don't make that mistake. I'm just 100% against certain other players at number 1. 

A good org doesn't take a player at #1 who isn't worth a #1.  A good org trades out of that position and gets the best deal possible. Typically, a team 8 mil from the LT isn't in a position to have the #1 pick. At this point, if the pick can't play significant minutes this year, you're paying the tax to develop people....that's crazy talk. That's the stuff of the Nets a few years ago.

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Let me say it a different way about why I say the floor is so low with this draft class. Below are the notable picks from the 2018 draft.  Knowing those players based on both what you know now and what you thought then, who on that list are you picking Sarr ahead of? Where are you slotting him.

Pick	Player	Pos.
1	Deandre Ayton	C
2	Marvin Bagley III	PF
3	Luka Dončić*~	PG
4	Jaren Jackson Jr.+	PF
5	Trae Young*	PG
6	Mo Bamba	C
7	Wendell Carter Jr.	C
8	Collin Sexton	SG/PG
9	Kevin Knox II	SF
10	Mikal Bridges	SF
11	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander*	SG/PG
12	Miles Bridges	SF
14	Michael Porter Jr.	SF
17	Donte DiVincenzo	SG
19	Kevin Huerter	SG
21	Grayson Allen	SG
23	Aaron Holiday	PG
24	Anfernee Simons	SG
25	Moritz Wagner	PF
26	Landry Shamet	SG
27	Robert Williams III	PF/C
33	Jalen Brunson+	PG
36	Mitchell Robinson	C
37	Gary Trent Jr.	SG
42	Bruce Brown	SG
45	Hamidou Diallo	SG

Everyone but Luka, Trae, JJJ, and SGA.  

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

The offensive side is where he def needs a lot of work. I think defensively he can make an impact day one especially on this terrible defensive team.  If he's average, he'll be an improvement over what we've thrown out there.

I don't know how you make impact when your offense is that bad even in a defensive position of strength. I can't see him earning the minutes with Quin. There is a great chance Gueye is better right now than he is and it's not like Gueye doesn't have potential. He clearly does. 

Just now, KB21 said:

Everyone but Luka, Trae, JJJ, and SGA.  

JJJ in the Ayton crew. He ain't nowhere close to the big dawgs.

[marco102]

Just now, thecampster said:

A good org doesn't take a player at #1 who isn't worth a #1.  A good org trades out of that position and gets the best deal possible. Typically, a team 8 mil from the LT isn't in a position to have the #1 pick. At this point, if the pick can't play significant minutes this year, you're paying the tax to develop people....that's crazy talk. That's the stuff of the Nets a few years ago.

Okay, knowing what you know now.  Would you take a raw Giannis at number 1? Would you take Jokic at number 1? If the answer is yes, then smart organizations also think outside of the box and take who they believe in. 

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't know how you make impact when your offense is that bad even in a defensive position of strength. I can't see him earning the minutes with Quin. There is a great chance Gueye is better right now than he is and it's not like Gueye doesn't have potential. He clearly does. 

JJJ in the Ayton crew. He ain't nowhere close to the big dawgs.

We no longer need to discuss Sarr or Edey. I know where you stand.

Thanks.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't know how you make impact when your offense is that bad even in a defensive position of strength. I can't see him earning the minutes with Quin. There is a great chance Gueye is better right now than he is and it's not like Gueye doesn't have potential. He clearly does. 

JJJ in the Ayton crew. He ain't nowhere close to the big dawgs.

You still going to die on the hill of completely missing on JJJ huh?

I knew Ayton, Bagley, and Bamba wouldn't be good in the NBA.  

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Okay, knowing what you know now.  Would you take a raw Giannis at number 1? Would you take Jokic at number 1? If the answer is yes, then smart organizations also think outside of the box and take who they believe in. 

Giannis was insanely talented and teams simply missed him because only Atlanta worked him out. 

Giannis in SL averaged 17/7/1/1. He was the 2nd best player that summer behind Kelly O. 

If Giannis would have worked out with a lot of teams, he would have been the 1st overall pick. 

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Giannis-Antetokounmpo/Summary/49629

Jokic didn't work out with no one. Denver drafted purely off a practices with him dominating CC in Portland at the Nike Summit. Jokic getting killed by Okafor is probably why teams didn't take him seriously as they should have. 

 

Edited May 20 by NBASupes

[Jody23]

How many times has a team traded the number one pick in the past 35 years?  I can think of only twice.  I'd rather keep the pick.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Giannis was insanely talented and teams simply missed him because only Atlanta worked him out. 

Giannis in SL averaged 17/7/1/1. He was the 2nd best player that summer behind Kelly O. 

If Giannis would have worked out with a lot of teams, he would have been the 1st overall pick. 

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Giannis-Antetokounmpo/Summary/49629

 

Thanks for the support Supes.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

We no longer need to discuss Sarr or Edey. I know where you stand.

Thanks.

You are posting here on a message board. I'll reply if you post and i feel it is worth a response. If I don't want to, I won't. 

[marco102]

Just now, NBASupes said:

You are posting here on a message board. I'll reply if you post and i feel it is worth a response. If I don't want to, I won't. 

You do. You, but just know I'm not responding.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

How many times has a team traded the number one pick in the past 35 years?  I can think of only twice.  I'd rather keep the pick.

Fultz draft

I remember the Elton Brand trade

It doesn't happen often. 

[marco102]

@NBASupes this is off topic, but you were right about Gobert! Gotta give props where they are due. I still wouldn't have given up that haul for him though, but it's paying off for Minnesota.  They've built that roster out well. 

Edited May 20 by marco102

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

@NBASupes this is off topic, but you were right about Gobert! Gotta give props were they are due.

I hate being right and we are still stuck in crap