Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[Afro]

14 hours ago, AHF said:

I know this wasn’t directed at me but I’ll share a couple of my thoughts on Edey.  On size, I don’t consider anyone’s size to be generational - it doesn’t make sense to me as a term.  What I consider generational physical characteristics are athleticism at a certain size.  Spud could 360 dunk at his height.  That is generational.  Someone else being the same size isn’t generational without that same athleticism.  Priest Lauderdale was enormous that has nothing to do with being generational.  Shaq’s athleticism at his size was generational.  For Edey, I don’t see that mix.  Most players his size are not very effective and so his size is not a big asset unless matched with athleticism that will offset it.  Him testing better than Clingan is a good start there but neither of those two is generational as far as physical characteristics for me.

In terms of back to the basket and rebounding, Edey was generational in college.  Whether he can be generational at those in the NBA is a TBD.  Salim Stoudemire looked like he could be a standout shooter and wasn’t even passable for rotation minutes.

I think Edey has the potential to generational with his back to the basket game in the NBA, although I wouldn’t say the odds are great just because that is such a high bar. I like the odds of that happening better than him being a generational rebounder.  But whether he is a generational player for those skills in the NBA will be determined by his actual NBA performance - including being a good enough all around player that he gets enough minutes to demonstrate those skills in very meaningful ways.  I put this as a firm TBD.

I'm not comparing play styles or ability here at all.... But Tacko Fall is a perfect example of what you mean. 

Being huge by itself isn't a plus. 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Afro said:

I'm not comparing play styles or ability here at all.... But Tacko Fall is a perfect example of what you mean. 

Being huge by itself isn't a plus. 

You have to combine the size with athleticism to come to anything meaningful.  Nobody has generational physical tools without assessing those two things in combination.  

[gurpilo]

hace 13 minutos, gurpilo dijo:

His physical tools, his fluidity and agility, he is a little more athletic, less touch on the rim but the efficiency is similar. His shooting is also similar. Sarr has not been on any US program, look at the way both Gasol brothers body changed, I expect even bigger result on Sarr. Look at Anteto, the way European players body is transformed at US is more eye popping than any other US player.

This is exactly what was said about Pau Gasol then.... Some years after he was a PF, even more a C in today´s NBA. Sarr will not be as gifted on offense, but defense should be much better. 11 ppg on Spanish league at age 21.... Those were his numbers coming to NBA.... And we passed on him.

 

NBA Comparison: Toni Kukoc

Strengths: Pau is the hope of all the people who like basketball in Spain. Pau is the star of the league. He also said rencently he wants to go to the NBA, but he wants to wait at least until 2002 (in this year he finish his contract with Barcelona), Gasol can play of SG, SF, PF or C, but his natural position is SF. In the paint he lacks strengh and struggles against stronger players. When playing at his true SF position he has no comparison in Europe. He can shoot 2 pointers, can slam (he loves it), can run in the fastbreak, and can play in low and high post. He is a complete player. Has a bright future in the NBA.

Edited June 10 by gurpilo

[thecampster]

Just now, gurpilo said:

This is exactly what was said about Pau Gasol then.... Some years after he was a PF, even more a C in today´s NBA. Sarr will not be as gifted on offense, but defense should be much better. 11 ppg on Spanish league at age 21.... 

 

NBA Comparison: Toni Kukoc

Strengths: Pau is the hope of all the people who like basketball in Spain. Pau is the star of the league. He also said rencently he wants to go to the NBA, but he wants to wait at least until 2002 (in this year he finish his contract with Barcelona), Gasol can play of SG, SF, PF or C, but his natural position is SF. In the paint he lacks strengh and struggles against stronger players. When playing at his true SF position he has no comparison in Europe. He can shoot 2 pointers, can slam (he loves it), can run in the fastbreak, and can play in low and high post. He is a complete player. Has a bright future in the NBA.

When Gasol came over, many more Euro stayed in Europe, came over later. It wasn't better but it was more competitive. More old men playing. Was hard to get playing time.  I'm not sure you can draw a ton from that.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

His physical tools, his fluidity and agility, he is a little more athletic, less touch on the rim but the efficiency is similar. His shooting is also similar. Sarr has not been on any US program, look at the way both Gasol brothers body changed, I expect even bigger result on Sarr. Look at Anteto, the way European players body is transformed at US is more eye popping than any other US player.

Just so we are clear, you aren't saying his skill set or ability is like Gasol. You are saying the way he moves to you is like Pau to you? 

What do you mean by touch on the rim and shooting is similar? 

I don't know about body changing like that. Everyone body will change but I don't know if banking on Marc Gasol transformation is not normal. I really don't see to much difference between LA Pau and Memphis Pau. Obviously gained bulk but he was more athletic in Memphis for sure. 

Who is Anteto?

Oh you mean Giannis? Banking on Giannis is even more extreme than Marc Gasol. That's a generational body even among generational bodies. 

I am going to be honest. I don't see nothing you see but I am trying to understand it from your prospective. You have been kind and you mean well so it's my job to try to understand and see where you are coming from. You are helping me understand even if I am having trouble seeing it. 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, Afro said:

I'm not comparing play styles or ability here at all.... But Tacko Fall is a perfect example of what you mean. 

Being huge by itself isn't a plus. 

Tacko Fall had very little offensive game or skills. He was just tall/big.  We are not talking that with Edey. Edey is very skilled.

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Tacko Fall had very little offensive game or skills. He was just tall/big.  We are not talking that with Edey. Edey is very skilled.

This is why there is no such thing as generational size.  You can be a generational physical specimen with a combination of size and athleticism and you can be generational at certain skills.  Nobody is comparing Edey and Fall - just pointing out that being big isn't an asset by itself.  Being big combined with being athletic at that size is an asset.  Being skilled is an asset regardless of physical tools.

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is why there is no such thing as generational size.  You can be a generational physical specimen with a combination of size and athleticism and you can be generational at certain skills.  Nobody is comparing Edey and Fall - just pointing out that being big isn't an asset by itself.  Being big combined with being athletic at that size is an asset.  Being skilled is an asset regardless of physical tools.

He's not athletic or skilled though.  His athletic limitations are why he will be a net negative defender in the NBA.  His lack of skill level on offense is why he will never be more than a 15-mpg player in the NBA.  His skill is around the basket, and in the NBA, he's not going to be fed in the post like he was in college.  He's a below average passer who doesn't recognize things quick, so you don't have any ability to use him on the short roll or on DHOs.  He's not a perimeter shooter, so teams are just going to sag off him and leave him open.  

When you compare him to Donovan Clingan, the first thing that is obvious is the Clingan is far better defensively because he moves better.  I don't care what the combine tests say.  Watch the film.  Clingan has second reaction ability that Edey will never have.  He covers more ground faster, despite the fact that he is also slow footed.  He's a much better passer, so he can at least show some ability to operate in DHOs and possibly even short roll.  Neither player will ever be a shooter from the perimeter.  

[gurpilo]

hace 2 horas, thecampster dijo:

When Gasol came over, many more Euro stayed in Europe, came over later. It wasn't better but it was more competitive. More old men playing. Was hard to get playing time.  I'm not sure you can draw a ton from that.

When Gasol was playing in Barcelona, the league level was worse than 5-10 years after when Rubio was starting to play. Europe was starting to increase his level by that time. Gasol skillset was unique at that time, his mobility for a 7 footer was not common, was unmatchable in Europe, now you can find more players like that. Still the fluidity and speed I see from Sarr remind me how unstoppable was Gasol at that time, he can run from one end to the other and finish at the rim with a speed that is difficult to stop.

I might be wrong with Sarr's but I see a lot of potential on him. On the tape you can see some soft touch around the rim, a lot of body control on the rim finishing in traffic. good back to the basket game, soft medium range shot, all those skills translate well to NBA and the defense is already there 

[JTB]

If reports are correct and Trae likes Clingan …he must also like Edey a  great degree.

[NBASupes]

 

 

[Jdawgflow]

37 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

 

That looks like me playing with my kids in their room on small goal.  Pure domination!  
 

Not sure how that will work in the NBA.  But very impressive there.

[macdaddy]

Someone is going to get a steal on Edey.  Especially on a rookie contract.  What he'll be worth in 4 years i'm not sure.  

[Jdawgflow]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Someone is going to get a steal on Edey.  Especially on a rookie contract.  What he'll be worth in 4 years i'm not sure.  

If someone picks him in the top 5 I am not sure he will be a steal but later than that I can see it.

Edit:  if we picked him at 8 (or got a later lottery pick) I wouldn’t be mad.  I still like him more than Clingan.  Sarr is my #1 but if we could trade for a later pick to get eddy as a back up big that could work.  Would have been nice to get the Kings pick.

[KB21]

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

 

Citing Krysten Peek's opinion on the NBA is not helping your case.

But entertaining Peek's argument that he'll get hunted.  If you're not taking a big because you no longer take a big 1st or you don't take Edey because you don't think he can play 82 games at 300lbs or you don't take Edey because he'll get hunted and therefore he's an end of the first round pick, you just made the argument for Clingan taken after him or in the 2nd round.

Clingan shoots worse than Edey, is less agile than Edey, plays drop coverage as well and is 280lbs at 2 inches shorter.  Peek's argument also makes Clingan a first of the 2nd round pick.
 

But if you want to hang your hat on Peek and call that expert opinion, please do.  She rose to fame as a video editor...not exactly great creds.  5 years at yahoo as their "draft analyst" is her only basketball related experience mainly following high school and college. but you do you fam.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/krysten-peek-6359b697/details/experience/

[thecampster]

Some logic and reason for you.
 

 

[Afro]

So someone who was employed as a draft analyst for half a decade is bullshit but "NBA Chev" is fine? 

The f***? 

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Afro said:

So someone who was employed as a draft analyst for half a decade is bullshit but "NBA Chev" is fine? 

The f***? 

Exactly.  Clingan is clearly more agile as well on the court, because the film actually shows it.  Edey can't do anything defensively the way Clingan does it.  

[thecampster]