Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Jdawgflow said:

I thought Nash was great.  Still doesn’t matter if he was Canadian.  This is an interesting hill to make your stand.

I believe the best pick in this draft is Edey to Atlanta and I've believe that for months. We got the #1 pick, I remember someone asking me in the Edey thread way back then, would you take him with the #1 pick and I said easily. The only player I would take over him in the last 5 years for the Hawks with Trae is Wemby. So I am gonna ride this one out. 

For Sarr fans, I've been against Sarr before you knew he even existed last Sunday. So my volume of Sarr talk only increased due to his name coming up, my message hasn't changed him in months. I was saying the same on RealGM. I didn't have him in my early top tier. In fact, only considered moving him up again as a 3. Now with us having the pick, I know for a fact, he's a bust for us. So I am 100% meaning I see zero reason to draft him. So I will never be on the boat to draft him unless it's at 15-20. In that case, yeah, I'll take him. I can send him to CP for a year or two and develop him with low expectations like Gueye. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, MarylandHawk said:

No one is saying he is a PnP and below average shooter AT BEST.  They are saying that is his floor. The reason so many people are projecting him at the top is because of his tremendous offensive upside. 

These guys literally posted James Edwards from the athletic article twice on here which said he's a PnP big. Now I said, he's a below-average shooter at best. Then again, so does No Ceilings, Hollinger, and nbadraft.net. Givony does as well. 

Tremendous offensive upside????? Do you mean, tremendous defensive upside? 

[benhillboy]

In my terribly limited knowledge of the prospects I’m gonna follow Reed Sheppard’s rookie year pretty closely based on his metrics and report (higher usage, ball pressuring Bibby projected mid-lottery?  Sign me up).  

I instantly took a shine to Podienski, Jaquez, and Wallace seeing how they were drafted by teams I follow, had great metrics, and intriguing scouting reports: I was thoroughly impressed from day one with all 3.  Chet was an obvious slam dunk.  The comps I see for many of these kids just don’t move me (Sarr-Mobley, Clingan-Kessler, Edy-Yao)

@NBASupes I know you hate Zubac.  How does Edy compare/ contrast to him and how long will it take for him to surpass his impact level?  I don’t keep receipts (okay maybe I keep them but I don’t redeem them) but this will be fun to revisit in a few years.  If he’s a magnanimous bust I know you’ll stand on it.  Eventually

I don’t have any high hopes for whoever the Hawks select.  Shaky franchises have shaky drafts.  Like getting absolutely 0 real contributions from your last two first rounders this season while the Mavs selected at 11 and changed the trajectory of their franchise smh.

Edited May 19 by benhillboy

[theheroatl]

One thing that is a drawback on Sarr is his hand size in relation to his body.. 

I'd rather have the #1 pick have giant claws like Giannis, Wemby or Kawhi than something average.

He measured 9/10 which is average to smaller

Edited May 19 by theheroatl

[marco102]

1 minute ago, theheroatl said:

One thing that is a drawback on Sarr is his hand size in relation to his body.. 

I'd rather have the #1 pick have giant claws like Giannis, Wemby or Kawhi than something average.

Does having big hands make you a better player?  I think his hands are pretty much average for someone his size.  Kawhi was are massive for his size. 

This can't be right for Jokic...can it?

[HawkingAwesome]

6 hours ago, JTB said:

Has anyone taken into account that Sarr slips a lot of screens ???

man Trae is going to hate that …very similar to what Collin’s started doing after Capela arrived.

 

@NBASupes I believe the issue with our responses towards the draft has Trae in mind. By all means I’m still a hardcore Trae fan. No number 1 pick is going to change my mind about whose team it is. This is Traes team and he’s a generational offensive talent that I’d rather keep long term.

Every prospect I look at has Trae in mind …i believe the FO should do the same.

we need the wall

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

In my terribly limited knowledge of the prospects I’m gonna follow Reed Sheppard’s rookie year pretty closely based on his metrics and report (higher usage, ball pressuring Bibby projected mid-lottery?  Sign me up).  

I instantly took a shine to Podienski, Jaquez, and Wallace seeing how they were drafted by teams I follow, had great metrics, and intriguing scouting reports: I was thoroughly impressed from day one with all 3.  Chet was an obvious slam dunk.  The comps I see for many of these kids just don’t move me (Sarr-Mobley, Clingan-Kessler, Edy-Yao)

@NBASupes I know you hate Zubac.  How does Edy compare/ contrast to him and how long will it take for him to surpass his impact level?  I don’t keep receipts (okay maybe I keep them but I don’t redeem them) but this will be fun to revisit in a few years.  If he’s a magnanimous bust I know you’ll stand on it.  Eventually

I don't hate Zubac at all. I hate any comp to Edey and Zubac is one. Even Edey mentioned guys like Jonas and Zubac in his personal. My personal opinion is simple. Zubac is a decent movement big man. Excellent screener who learned from Harrell who's one of the best in the last 10 years and Gortat who was one of the best in the last 15 years. So I always liked Zubac and he always appears in the impact charts at a good level. There is a massive gap between Zubac and Edey in terms of quality of screens, consistency in driving screens, and patience which Zubac didn't always show till this year, and he just wasn't a great roll man. Harrell was an elite roller in his prime. Gortat with Wall was special. 

Edey is next level. His size, strength, he is able to start and stop exceptionally well - something I wish Bruno could do so he wouldn't get called for so many moving screens. He has timing. Edey has it all as a screener and he loves contact. That to me is key. That's what Karl Malone had. 

He's also relentless as a roller. As No Ceilings stated, he's more of an arm's reach roller which works for him and that length of his. I just see Karl Malone honestly. The mindset that is. Just that relentless will to score. 

For me, I know he's not the most talented. The most skilled or close. But Westbrook proved to me that being relentless, healthy, with tremendous stamina and athletic ability for your size, you can product like hell in the NBA and that's hard to deal with. Also, he's an elite helper. He makes life a lot easier for his teammates. It's all in the metrics as well. 

Bro got two top 10 lineups with him in it. https://evanmiya.com/?homepage

That's what you see him Jokic. Pelton has his WARP as the same as Jokic. 

I just think he's a terrific fit for Trae. He's elite at the things Trae's elite at. To me, how we got Stockton/Malone. 

I am all in on Edey. 

As far as Zubac. I think he's a top 20 center but he just the the quality of movement big I like, also, Edey also has the low post movement as well. So I just believe Edey is levels better. I see Edey as an inverse Klay Thompson. Klay is one of the greatest movement wings ever. Edey has the same movement as bigs like Gortat and Harrell while having the movement in the low post like Shaq. To me, that's special. No one else is like this. Yeah, I don't see how Atlanta can pass on Edey and it doesn't turn out disastrous for Atlanta. 

Edited May 19 by NBASupes

[deester11]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

These guys literally posted James Edwards from the athletic article twice on here which said he's a PnP big. Now I said, he's a below-average shooter at best. Then again, so does No Ceilings, Hollinger, and nbadraft.net. Givony does as well. 

Tremendous offensive upside????? Do you mean, tremendous defensive upside? 

Ain't nobody trying to change your mind now Supes.  At this point you've argued like a person who has conviction for his guy. I admire that.  I'm lowkey about it..but I also am convinced that freaking Edey, Clingan and players of that ilk aren't the right guys either.  Yeah, people posted articles that go against your critique of Sarr and the pro articles support some of what you say.  But they unequivocally say he's got the most upside in this draft.  (He and Zach - even Holland). Why is there no..none..zip mention that even allude to Edey being the best player in this draft? I've seen cases for Clingan more than Edey.  Is everyone stupid Supes...? Besides me that is...

 

Edited May 19 by deester11

[NBASupes]

Harrell is probably the last player who was elite at the PnR who was a plus screener who scored mostly of PnRs https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harremo01.html

I know some people will knock Edey and say you can't score points that way but I think with Edey's movement as a low post big as well. I wouldn't be shocked if we took him #1 and Edey score 22-24PPG as a rookie with 12-13 RPG. 

Some people will be shocked. Some won't and say he won't improve and this is as good as it gets. Some will just say this is fake, not a modern big, wait till next year, he will get exposed. No one seen 7'5 300 pounds for that can play mins. Still just another Boban

In my opinion, I think he could grow every single year. It's hard to add something in an offseason and become great at it as Edey did in college. I believe that is transferable. Also, I haven't seen someone this great in college fail in the NBA ever. If he is the first, so be it but I haven't seen it and nothing in his film indicates that he will be the first. 

[Jdawgflow]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I believe the best pick in this draft is Edey to Atlanta and I've believe that for months. We got the #1 pick, I remember someone asking me in the Edey thread way back then, would you take him with the #1 pick and I said easily. The only player I would take over him in the last 5 years for the Hawks with Trae is Wemby. So I am gonna ride this one out. 

For Sarr fans, I've been against Sarr before you knew he even existed last Sunday. So my volume of Sarr talk only increased due to his name coming up, my message hasn't changed him in months. I was saying the same on RealGM. I didn't have him in my early top tier. In fact, only considered moving him up again as a 3. Now with us having the pick, I know for a fact, he's a bust for us. So I am 100% meaning I see zero reason to draft him. So I will never be on the boat to draft him unless it's at 15-20. In that case, yeah, I'll take him. I can send him to CP for a year or two and develop him with low expectations like Gueye. 

I appreciate your conviction.  The only point I was making is you trying to compare Canadians with work ethic to make your point doesn’t hold water.  It doesn’t matter where someone is from.

[HawkingAwesome]

sarr just sounds likea  throw away pick

9 ppg and too light in the ass to protect the paint.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

I appreciate your conviction.  The only point I was making is you trying to compare Canadians with work ethic to make your point doesn’t hold water.  It doesn’t matter where someone is from.

It's wasn't a serious post. It was more like a funny quip

[KB21]

Hmm.  This is suspicious.  

[JTB]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Shelden was a mistake from the jump. I almost broke my friends TV from that pick. If anything is Shelden. It's Sarr. 

I definitely don’t agree that Sheldon and Sarr are anything a like ….and I don’t even believe you think that.

the argument isn’t is Sarr talented or have a high ceiling. It’s is he the right fit and if the FO believe he is, I will be fully behind it. 
 

I don’t hate sarr, I care about losing Trae. If Trae is on board with all our moves I’m good.

[JTB]

7 minutes ago, HawkingAwesome said:

sarr just sounds likea  throw away pick

9 ppg and too light in the ass to protect the paint.

He’s not a center . You have to look at Sarr as multi positional in my opinion. I’m not even saying it’s a throw away pick …I just don’t know if he can impact this team right out the gate and with having the number 1 pick and already having a star in place , I want a really good fit next to Trae.

Rookies can make an impact year 1 but sarr may not make an impact until year 3 or 4.

[deester11]

10 minutes ago, HawkingAwesome said:

sarr just sounds likea  throw away pick

9 ppg and too light in the ass to protect the paint.

Lmao.  If that's your criteria, yeah.

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Ain't nobody trying to change your mind now Supes.  At this point you've argued like a person who has conviction for his guy. I admire that.  I'm lowkey about it..but I also am convinced that freaking Edey, Clingan and players of that ilk aren't the right guys either.  Yeah, people posted articles that go against your critique of Sarr and the pro articles support some of what you say.  But they unequivocally say he's got the most upside in this draft.  (He and Zach - even Holland). Why is there no..none..zip mention that even allude to Edey being the best player in this draft? I've seen cases for Clingan more than Edey.  Is everyone stupid Supes...? Besides me that is...

 

Edey haters aside, almost everyone is willing to say Edey was the best player in college basketball in the last two seasons. Everyone says, no questioned asked. This year, the best international player this year is Z. Risacher and his season has been up and down to say the least, correct? I believe people are scared to Edey's the best player in this draft because the NBA game is played a lot different than how Edey was used at Purdue. 

Even I've said, the way Edey is used at Purdue would not work in the NBA. Maybe in the 90s but not today and even then, I don't know if it would work with Edey running it like he does at Purdue. 

The NBA is completely different. That said, Edey is exceptional at the most important things for a center offensively which is screening. He's also an elite roller with insane PPP off solid volume for a prospect. Add that he's tremendous with his motor and nose for the ball on both ends. That translates. I know the 20-30 post up attempts a game doesn't. I believe he gets too much attention for a part of his game that I never though was that great. To me, it's the PnR, it's the patience movement like CC, it's the rolling, it's the hands when adjusting to a pass, his finishing through contact, it's his ability to set and reset as a screener and post up player, it's his energy, stamina, then his size and length you have to deal with. You can get him on some possessions but he's relentless. That's hard to deal with. 

I just believe, most people lack balls and he's not the easiest scout. He was my hardest scout ever. I had to watch more games than ever. I had to actually track his movement and timing. Compare them to pros. I was shocked at the results. 

He's not an easy scout. So blaming people for lacking balls maybe a tad wrong as he was very difficult for even myself. I just like Purdue played everyone and didn't running away from comp. We got Edey against everyone and I love that. 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

He’s not a center . You have to look at Sarr as multi positional in my opinion. I’m not even saying it’s a throw away pick …I just don’t know if he can impact this team right out the gate and with having the number 1 pick and already having a star in place , I want a really good fit next to Trae.

Rookies can make an impact year 1 but sarr may not make an impact until year 3 or 4.

Multi-positional can also be tweener which reminds of.... 

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, JTB said:

I definitely don’t agree that Sheldon and Sarr are anything a like ….and I don’t even believe you think that.

the argument isn’t is Sarr talented or have a high ceiling. It’s is he the right fit and if the FO believe he is, I will be fully behind it. 
 

I don’t hate sarr, I care about losing Trae. If Trae is on board with all our moves I’m good.

Yep, Sarr ain't Shelden. It's their bust potential with us is through the roof. Shelden for all his flaws was below average at almost everything outside of rebounding. Sarr is flat-out bad at somethings and he's not physically mature. Shelden was. It's more about the potential bust levels I see with both of them. 

[deester11]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Edey haters aside, almost everyone is willing to say Edey was the best player in college basketball in the last two seasons. Everyone says, no questioned asked. This year, the best international player this year is Z. Risacher and his season has been up and down to say the least, correct? I believe people are scared to Edey's the best player in this draft because the NBA game is played a lot different than how Edey was used at Purdue. 

Even I've said, the way Edey is used at Purdue would not work in the NBA. Maybe in the 90s but not today and even then, I don't know if it would work with Edey running it like he does at Purdue. 

The NBA is completely different. That said, Edey is exceptional at the most important things for a center offensively which is screening. He's also an elite roller with insane PPP off solid volume for a prospect. Add that he's tremendous with his motor and nose for the ball on both ends. That translates. I know the 20-30 post up attempts a game doesn't. I believe he gets too much attention for a part of his game that I never though was that great. To me, it's the PnR, it's the patience movement like CC, it's the rolling, it's the hands when adjusting to a pass, his finishing through contact, it's his ability to set and reset as a screener and post up player, it's his energy, stamina, then his size and length you have to deal with. You can get him on some possessions but he's relentless. That's hard to deal with. 

I just believe, most people lack balls and he's not the easiest scout. He was my hardest scout ever. I had to watch more games than ever. I had to actually track his movement and timing. Compare them to pros. I was shocked at the results. 

He's not an easy scout. So blaming people for lacking balls maybe a tad wrong as he was very difficult for even myself. I just like Purdue played everyone and didn't running away from comp. We got Edey against everyone and I love that. 

I watch a lot of college ball.  I saw a guy who bullied his way to 10-16 pts on accident, back to the basket ball.  I agree with you about what was required at Purdue.  I saw 4 games of his.  I'll be honest, there are things to "dream on." But it's really disingenuous to not say the same about Sarr.  Are NBA offenses going to play the way Purdue did? Highly unlikely.  He'll have to adjust too.  Again..if the Hawks think Edey's the number 1 player, there's nothing I can do about it. But drafting him at 1 seems an over reach.  

IF they draft him, there better be a plan to maximize trading one of the guards.  Maybe that's the bigger picture. I'm not sure the Hawks vision is going to amount to enough to keep Trae, let alone give this fanbase much hope.