2024 Hawks Offseason Thread: Draft Over: What's Next?

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

Why would the Hawks go get Ayton?  That would be trying to WIN.

"Well duh, we don't need to win to make money." - Toni Ressler

Why you, and others, see they're not making moves to win but pin all the losing on one player? 

[ABH]

26 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

I want to keep Hunter at this point.  Big wing, solid man defender, nearly a 40% 3pt shooter, can get his own offense.  If his name was something different and was on another team this board would desperately want a player with his profile.  Many Hawks fans are just tired of watching him and the fact that he didn't become a star.  His contract isn't bad considering what many other players have received.  Hunter isn't perfect but it's just a classic case of thinking the grass is greener on the other side. 

Anyone we replace him with isn't going to be better.

I like hunter and he is good but never plays..always hurt

[ABH]

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Plus the guy gets better at something every year except when he was dealing with injuries during his 1st few offseasons

Better at getting hurt also

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, ABH said:

Better at getting hurt also

So was Murray until the last couple of years

[Hawkmoor]

36 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

I want to keep Hunter at this point.  Big wing, solid man defender, nearly a 40% 3pt shooter, can get his own offense.  If his name was something different and was on another team this board would desperately want a player with his profile.  Many Hawks fans are just tired of watching him and the fact that he didn't become a star.  His contract isn't bad considering what many other players have received.  Hunter isn't perfect but it's just a classic case of thinking the grass is greener on the other side. 

Anyone we replace him with isn't going to be better.

THIS. Lets get to the core of this:  Its everybody's fault but Trae's...

 

[Peoriabird]

23 minutes ago, ABH said:

I like hunter and he is good but never plays..always hurt

Bogie also went thru a similar stretch for 4 years

[REHawksFan]

25 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

THIS. Lets get to the core of this:  Its everybody's fault but Trae's...

 

LOL....it's killing you they aren't going to trade our superstar isn't it. It's OK to admit it. 

Bwhahaha

[Hawkmoor]

I'll try and explain this.  For about 4 years now there has been polarity surrounding Trae Young being the centerpiece of the Hawks.  There ARE a lot of folks outside Hawksquawk that feel the same way I do about Trae.  But that miraculously isn't the real issue.  Folks like me have been given up on the Hawks going in another direction at point guard.  Instead we focus on (as well as Trae Stans) on what can be done around him.  His faults are obvious:  Short, doesn't play defense and has to dominate the ball on offense. The Hawks need defense and length, somebody who can cover the entire floor ala the Celtics.

So what happens?  The Hawks are gifted the number 1 pick in the draft.  Widely considered the best player to fit what the Hawks NEED is overlooked for Risacher.  Sarr is sitting right there. I could care less about his agent comments. Even Hawksquawk is in the majority with drafting Sarr.  The pick is universally panned but like I predicted, the night wasn't even over and enter the twilight zone: "Welcome to Atlanta Risacher" threads, like clockwork. 

Suddenly, the Hawks can do no wrong and we need "patience".  Its like clockwork.  Steve Koonin gets busy preparing his radio spiel and its business as usual.  Oh, we ain't finished though being the Hawks. Your best all around player who can play defense, Murray, is traded for a bag of empty bag of potato chips, a half eaten corndog and a coke that has gone flat.  Now all eyes are on Hunter.  Its not his fault that he can't get in the same area code of a offensive player without the refs whistle coming out.  Even they look at the Hawks as the "twilight zone". Nothing makes any sense. You can't honestly look at ANY good player and "fit" him into the Hawks because the Hawks make zero sense with their moves. Thats the miraculous issue with the Hawks.  It ain't Trae. Its the Hawks. They muck up everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:59 AM by Hawkmoor

[Hawkmoor]

deleted.

Edited Tuesday at 02:59 AM by Hawkmoor

[REHawksFan]

5 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I'll try and explain this.  For about 4 years now there has been polarity surrounding Trae Young being the centerpiece of the Hawks.  There ARE a lot of folks outside Hawksquawk that feel the same way I do about Trae.  But that miraculously isn't the real issue.  Folks like me have been given up on the Hawks going in another direction at point guard.  Instead we focus on (as well as Trae Stans) on what can be done around him.  His faults are obvious:  Short, doesn't play defense and has to dominate the ball on offense. The Hawks need defense and length, somebody who can cover the entire floor ala the Celtics.

So what happens?  The Hawks are gifted the number 1 pick in the draft.  Widely considered the best player to fit what the Hawks NEED is overlooked for Risacher.  Sarr is sitting right there. I could care less about his agent comments. Even Hawksquawk is in the majority with drafting Sarr.  The pick is universally panned but like I predicted, the night wasn't even over and enter the twilight zone: "Welcome to Atlanta Risacher" threads, like clockwork. 

Suddenly, the Hawks can do no wrong and we need "patience".  Its like clockwork.  Steve Koonin gets busy preparing his radio spiel and its business as usual.  Oh, we ain't finished though being the Hawks. Your best all around player who can play defense, Murray, is traded for a bag of empty bag of potato chips, a half eaten corndog and a coke that has gone flat.  Now all eyes are on Hunter.  Its not his fault that he can't get in the same area code of a offensive player without the refs whistle coming out.  Even they look at the Hawks as the "twilight zone". Nothing makes any sense. You can't honestly look at ANY good player and "fit" him into the Hawks because the Hawks make zero sense with their moves. Thats the miraculous issue with the Hawks.  It ain't Trae. Its the Hawks. They muck up everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually agree with a good bit of this. We part ways at thinking the DJM trade was bad. It wasn't. They HAD to be split up and Trae is the better player. So you keep him and do what the Mavs did and put complimentary players around your star player. I think they've attempted to do that very well. 

I wanted Sarr as well but it didn't happen. Risacher seems is universally liked by all the pundits. It's always funny to me when a player or a trade can be regarded as really good for the Hawks by all the pundits but a few folks on here apparently know better than errrbody. Yall are right and errbody else is wrong. Just funny to me. 

Hey, maybe it won't work and Trae will demand a trade any you'll get your wish. The Hawks can go about sucking without any draft picks and you'll be content not watching Trae. But personally, I'll applaud the fact that they appear to have a plan and are at least attempting to put length and defense around Trae. We'll see if it works. 

[Hawkmoor]

7 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I actually agree with a good bit of this. We part ways at thinking the DJM trade was bad. It wasn't. They HAD to be split up and Trae is the better player. So you keep him and do what the Mavs did and put complimentary players around your star player. I think they've attempted to do that very well. 

I wanted Sarr as well but it didn't happen. Risacher seems is universally liked by all the pundits. It's always funny to me when a player or a trade can be regarded as really good for the Hawks by all the pundits but a few folks on here apparently know better than errrbody. Yall are right and errbody else is wrong. Just funny to me. 

Hey, maybe it won't work and Trae will demand a trade any you'll get your wish. The Hawks can go about sucking without any draft picks and you'll be content not watching Trae. But personally, I'll applaud the fact that they appear to have a plan and are at least attempting to put length and defense around Trae. We'll see if it works. 

You started off by saying "I actually agree with a good bit of this" after I basically clowned the Hawks.  Then you spent the majority of your response defending the Hawks.  THATS that twilight zone I was talking about right there.

[SalvorMallow]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

So what happens?  The Hawks are gifted the number 1 pick in the draft.  Widely considered the best player to fit what the Hawks NEED is overlooked for Risacher.  Sarr is sitting right there. I could care less about his agent comments. Even Hawksquawk is in the majority with drafting Sarr.  The pick is universally panned but like I predicted, the night wasn't even over and enter the twilight zone: "Welcome to Atlanta Risacher" threads, like clockwork. 

I didn't know our collective opinion was held in such high regard!

[REHawksFan]

6 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

You started off by saying "I actually agree with a good bit of this" after I basically clowned the Hawks.  Then you spent the majority of your response defending the Hawks.  THATS that twilight zone I was talking about right there.

No I didn't. But whatever. I'm just happy the Hawks are finally putting guys around Trae that make sense. If that upsets you, it's a you problem. 

EDIT: After going back and reading both posts it's pretty dang clear you just see what you want to. I literally agree with 75% of what you said in that one post. And I didn't spend a whole post defending the Hawks. I defended one decision (the DJ trade). That's it. 

You can't see past your hatred for Trae to recognize that the Hawks are better now than they were before the DJ trade. It's maddening but about what I expect from the haters. 

Edited Tuesday at 09:37 AM by REHawksFan

[Gray Mule]

I, for one, was hoping that we drafted Sarr.  He and his agent decided he didn't want to become a Hawk, or so we are told.  Washington wins the hand of this new player.  Just as I would not want to wed a lady who doesn't want me, I no longer wanted Sarr to be a Hawk.

Instead of Sarr, the Hawks select Risacher.  His and Sarr's defense is comparable with a slight edge to Sarr.  We were worried about the scoring ability of Sarr away from the goal.  We hoped he would develop.  Risacher already has some history of being kinda good with the long ball.  Right now, the Hawks worry about who will score for them.  Maybe, just maybe, Risacher is the answer.

Some say we missed on our draft.  Sarr doesn't want to be here.  Take him anyway.  To heck with what he wants.  Sarr will be a great all-star.  Risacher is already and will always be a dud!  Sarr, the great, needed, new center VS Risacher the tall SG.

Squawk posters are very smart and know stuff.  Atlanta GM and his entire staff are all stupid puppets of the owner.

Somehow, I've missed the boat.  It sailed without me.  How do I know?  Because I like what we did in the draft!

[AHF]

9 hours ago, FL_BRYANT said:

Over a long season with Bogi playing starter minutes those numbers would be very different.  No way Bogi plays better D than Murray. As far as size goes they are both 6ft5. Bogi weights a bit more that's all. Bogi has no positive impact on defense.  No one believes that. 

You are getting caught up in something irrelevant.  We have a full season of comparison:  >2700 minutes for DJM and >2400 minutes for Bogi.  36 mpg for Trae and DJM and 30 mpg for Bogi.  This is not an evaluation of Bogi in the abstract; it is a comparison against DJM and driven by how terrible Trae and DJM were together more than how great Bogi is.  But the difference is stark.  And it was there the season before too.  The defense and offense were both better with Bogi and Trae than DJM and Trae both seasons.

[AHF]

9 hours ago, AtLaS said:

I want to keep Hunter at this point.  Big wing, solid man defender, nearly a 40% 3pt shooter, can get his own offense.  If his name was something different and was on another team this board would desperately want a player with his profile.  Many Hawks fans are just tired of watching him and the fact that he didn't become a star.  His contract isn't bad considering what many other players have received.  Hunter isn't perfect but it's just a classic case of thinking the grass is greener on the other side. 

Anyone we replace him with isn't going to be better.

100%.  I am going to be super pissed if the Hawks salary dump Hunter or think we have enough big wings without him. I have a hard time picturing trades for him that make us better and plausibly can happen.  Grass is greener is a great way of describing the issue. 
 

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

I defended one decision (the DJ trade). That's it. 

[T]he Hawks are better now than they were before the DJ trade. 

I think we are obviously better after the DJM trade.  It conversely was hard for me to envision any trade of DJM that didn’t make the team better.  My criticism of the trade was similar to me criticizing Fields for not setting up a trade down with Washington in the draft over the last several weeks (once they ruled out Sarr they should have been all-in on Sarr in the media to make everyone think he was our guy and make the Wizards pay to get Sarr).  I just feel like we left value in the table in both cases.

8 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

So what happens?  The Hawks are gifted the number 1 pick in the draft.  Widely considered the best player to fit what the Hawks NEED is overlooked for Risacher.  Sarr is sitting right there. I could care less about his agent comments. Even Hawksquawk is in the majority with drafting Sarr.  The pick is universally panned but like I predicted, the night wasn't even over and enter the twilight zone: "Welcome to Atlanta Risacher" threads, like clockwork.

 

I don’t know why embracing Risacher is like entering the twilight zone.  It is logical, imo.  I don’t like Jayson Tatum but if he became a Hawk I would root for him because he is wearing a Hawks jersey.  I rooted for Christian ****ing Laettner.  We need wings with size so Risacher helps make the team better.  He seems to have a strong work ethic and if he delivers on the combo of perimeter defense and perimeter shooting he will make us better.  Why not root for that to happen?  I wanted Sarr for the same reasons you did but once it is done there is no use disliking Risacher. Absolutely welcome to the Hawks.  Now if Sarr becomes and impact defender and better player, Landry Fields should take the blame for that.  But hate Risacher now?  No way.  I want to see the kid become the best version of himself here in Atlanta.

[deester11]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

100%.  I am going to be super pissed if the Hawks salary dump Hunter or think we have enough big wings without him. I have a hard time picturing trades for him that make us better and plausibly can happen.  Grass is greener is a great way of describing the issue. 
 

I think we are obviously better after the DJM trade.  It conversely was hard for me to envision any trade of DJM that didn’t make the team better.  My criticism of the trade was similar to me criticizing Fields for not setting up a trade down with Washington in the draft over the last several weeks (once they ruled out Sarr they should have been all-in on Sarr in the media to make everyone think he was our guy and make the Wizards pay to get Sarr).  I just feel like we left value in the table in both cases.

I don’t know why embracing Risacher is like entering the twilight zone.  It is logical, imo.  I don’t like Jayson Tatum but if he became a Hawk I would root for him because he is wearing a Hawks jersey.  I rooted for Christian ****ing Laettner.  We need wings with size so Risacher helps make the team better.  He seems to have a strong work ethic and if he delivers on the combo of perimeter defense and perimeter shooting he will make us better.  Why not root for that to happen?  I wanted Sarr for the same reasons you did but once it is done there is no use disliking Risacher. Absolutely welcome to the Hawks.  Now if Sarr becomes and impact defender and better player, Landry Fields should take the blame for that.  But hate Risacher now?  No way.  I want to see the kid become the best version of himself here in Atlanta.

Very succinctly put.  I totally agree about Sarr. They dictated to the Hawks, not the other way around. That's always my issue with the Hawks...moderate to subpar when it comes to changing things to their advantage and letting other teams control the line of scrimmage. I digress.

I'm Hunters biggest detractor.  I stand on it. But the giveaway and swap meet mentality needs to stop. He does have value to the Hawks and that's all he needs to have.  (I'm saying this..I feel dirty). The Hawks are better after the Murray trade but they left meat on the bone so far. My grandmother would be pissed about that.

Edited Tuesday at 11:21 AM by deester11

[REHawksFan]

38 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think we are obviously better after the DJM trade.  It conversely was hard for me to envision any trade of DJM that didn’t make the team better.  My criticism of the trade was similar to me criticizing Fields for not setting up a trade down with Washington in the draft over the last several weeks (once they ruled out Sarr they should have been all-in on Sarr in the media to make everyone think he was our guy and make the Wizards pay to get Sarr).  I just feel like we left value in the table in both cases.

I agree with you on the draft.  But on the trade, I'm not sure how anyone could be confident that we left value on the table.  Has anyone other than a few Hawks fans opined as such?  I haven't seen it.  I've listened to a lot of podcasts over the last few days - Vecenie, Lowe, Rowland, etc - and read a bunch of articles.  The trade is universally considered to be fair value for the Hawks.  

I'm not suggesting you don't have a right to your own opinion, I'm just saying that when nearly everyone that covers the Hawks and or NBA thinks this was fair value for DJM, maybe it actually is.  If we break down what the Hawks gave up (universally considered an overpay) vs what they received for him, there's not a ton of difference.  Yes, DJM increased his value with the Hawks, but that's factored in to the return.  Hawks gave up 4 assets in the original trade (4 1sts but one is likely never to convey so 3 1sts and 2 2nds) and received 3 1sts plus Nance and Liddell.  That sure seems comparable to me.  

Bottom line for me:  The assets we gave up to acquire Murray (considered a huge overpay) are nearly the same as the assets we received to trade him (now considered undervalued by some).  That doesn't make sense, even when you acknowledge that Murray increased in value given level of play and contract.  

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

(4 1sts but one is likely never to convey so 3 1sts and 2 2nds) and received 3 1sts plus Nance and Liddell.  That sure seems comparable to me.  

The full deal is:

Gallo, 2 1sts, 1 swap, 2 2nds vs 2 1sts, Dyson, Nance, Liddell.

(And if you want to be picky, we got Jock Landale in the original deal too, but we cut him )

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The full deal is:

Gallo, 2 1sts, 1 swap, 2 2nds vs 2 1sts, Dyson, Nance, Liddell.

Right, but Gallo was immediately waived and not considered an asset in the deal.  I also don't consider Liddell an asset necessarily.  

What are the assets?  2 1sts, 1 swap, and 2 2nds vs 2 1sts, Dyson (lottery pick) and Nance

That's not terribly different.