2024 Hawks Offseason Thread: Draft Over: What's Next?

[ABH]

38 minutes ago, Afro said:

Damn near every other contender has been able to make several deals to improve(Warriors, Nugs, Heat the ones who haven't). 

How long are we going to do nothing? (for people who wanna jump on me, read my post above lol) 

Forever

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

I believe the FO has a vision/direction they want to go, which is good. But I don’t have a lot of faith in their ability to actually execute it well. Poor trade negotiators, and now poor foresight to recognize how free agency impacts the trade market. 
I can understand LF/KK inexperience playing into things, but what have all to dudes with experience they’ve brought into the fold been doing? 

Pretty fair assessment.  Landry has at best been at par, but needs to show he can make a high impact move where we are adding not subtracting.  If one of his picks or Dyson Daniels becomes a legit starter or key rotation player, I think that would be his biggest win so far.
 

[mountainjim]

Maybe Portland will trade us Clingan. 

 

(I kid, but at this point the player I believe would help us the most is Ayton, not DeRozan.)

[ABH]

51 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Outside of the knee surgery in 2021, Hunter averages over 60 games a year.  That means he plays in 75% of games, that's not "hurt most of the time".  This is a case of being tired of watching someone who has been on the team for a while, and wanting a change for the sake of making a change.  Unfortunately there aren't hoards of Mikal Bridges prototypes in the league, this is pretty much the norm.  A big 2 way wing who can shoot the 3 and create some of his own offense, who doesn't miss many games, that is realistically available and doesn't have a ginormous contract is extremely hard to find.

What are the better options who are realistically available?  Clear upgrades on the floor and play more games than Hunter?  And are under 30 years old? I.E. have the same window?  

If Hunter played for another team we would be dieing to get him here.

He averages 52 per year and last 2 years 86..unfortunately most if not all decent sf are gone..he don't make his own offense

51 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Outside of the knee surgery in 2021, Hunter averages over 60 games a year.  That means he plays in 75% of games, that's not "hurt most of the time".  This is a case of being tired of watching someone who has been on the team for a while, and wanting a change for the sake of making a change.  Unfortunately there aren't hoards of Mikal Bridges prototypes in the league, this is pretty much the norm.  A big 2 way wing who can shoot the 3 and create some of his own offense, who doesn't miss many games, that is realistically available and doesn't have a ginormous contract is extremely hard to find.

What are the better options who are realistically available?  Clear upgrades on the floor and play more games than Hunter?  And are under 30 years old? I.E. have the same window?  

If Hunter played for another team we would be dieing to get him here.

He averages 52 per year and last 2 years 86..unfortunately most if not all decent sf are gone..he don't make his own offense

[AHF]

We've been pruning salary since the second we traded for DJM and didn't do a think to protect our picks.  Makes you wonder why they did it at all.

[Final_quest]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

We've been pruning salary since the second we traded for DJM and didn't do a think to protect our picks.  Makes you wonder why they did it at all.

Time to move on and move forward.  An additional $12-14M in spending would not have saved the DeJohnTrae Hawks.  We had/have a lot of bad salary to prune.  

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

We've been pruning salary since the second we traded for DJM and didn't do a think to protect our picks.  Makes you wonder why they did it at all.

...and it'll be done again, get just enough under the tax to open the full MLE, but if it's used, follow that up with a subsequent trade to stay under to start the season.

[macdaddy]

 

 

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

We've been pruning salary since the second we traded for DJM and didn't do a think to protect our picks.  Makes you wonder why they did it at all.

You know every team in the league has to prune salary, right?  I assume you also noticed the champion Nuggets roster has to prune salary?  The Clippers just pruned Paul George out of the building.  Golden State pruned their way out of the tax.  It's not even fair to call it salary shedding when you shed a player like Kevin Heurter, whose replacement value is league average, at best.  OR when you "prune" JC off the roster and allow Jalen Johnson to blossom.

Based on the logic of your consistent complaints around salary shedding, here's a quick thought exercise.  How many wins are the Hawks at next year with this $206M top 3 most expensive roster:

• Trae / Kobe / Dyson
• Bogi / Heurter / Dyson
• Hunter / Kyle Anderson / Risacher
• Jalen / Collins / Nance
• Capela / Okongwu / Nance

This is what you continuously argue for -- loads of depth: mediocre, expensive, depth.  The next logical place to direct emotional frustration is "well they should package these guys and consolidate for a star", which misses the reality of that's not possible.  No one wants Hunter + Capela for their all-star.  No one wants any combination of these players and a couple firsts for their star player.  Imagine reading your team is about to ship out a player like KAT for Hunter and Capela.  That's the kind of stuff we make fun of other fans for.  We can stop fantasizing about it.

And Murray isn't a star player so I have no idea what y'all were expecting in return for him.  He's a mediocre efficiency volume scorer that is a neutral on defense, at best.  His play making is not good -- we all know that, we watched him for 2 years.  Expecting anything more than what we got is unrealistic.  Instead of praising Landry for negotiating an unprotected Lakers 1st in the deal, over a Pelicans 1st, it's just more piling on.  Show me a materially better deal for Murray and I'll show you a fan base that laughs you out of the room.

The good news that while most here have been slow to recognize we're sailing on a broken ship (thanks FQ, love that analogy), Landry saw that when he took over.  He's already diligently tested the market for our player values and analyzed the many paths forward.  This is exactly why we had a development and assessment year last season (that lucky for us, very lucky for us, landed us a 1st pick).  And now we've restocked on some picks, got young talent in to develop, and have reason to be remotely hopeful for the future.  So while everyone else was crossing their fingers we could trade away blocks of silver for blocks of gold, he's been executing on a path forward that is focused on more than a 6th seed next season.

[Gray Mule]

Seeing our current roster, 31-year-old players are our oldest that we expect to play a lot.  Old but not yet ancient!

Four are 21 and younger.  If, always the big if, Hawks remain healthy then they should be much improved.  Bruno is only 25.  Thought he was a lot older.  We list three players who are 6'10" and none under 6'.

Slowly we build toward what our head coach wants.  I know.  Some pray, "Lord, give me patience and give it to me now!"  

 

[macdaddy]

17 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

You know every team in the league has to prune salary, right?  I assume you also noticed the champion Nuggets roster has to prune salary?  The Clippers just pruned Paul George out of the building.  Golden State pruned their way out of the tax.  It's not even fair to call it salary shedding when you shed a player like Kevin Heurter, whose replacement value is league average, at best.  OR when you "prune" JC off the roster and allow Jalen Johnson to blossom.

Based on the logic of your consistent complaints around salary shedding, here's a quick thought exercise.  How many wins are the Hawks at next year with this $206M top 3 most expensive roster:

• Trae / Kobe / Dyson
• Bogi / Heurter / Dyson
• Hunter / Kyle Anderson / Risacher
• Jalen / Collins / Nance
• Capela / Okongwu / Nance

This is what you continuously argue for -- loads of depth: mediocre, expensive, depth.  The next logical place to direct emotional frustration is "well they should package these guys and consolidate for a star", which misses the reality of that's not possible.  No one wants Hunter + Capela for their all-star.  No one wants any combination of these players and a couple firsts for their star player.  Imagine reading your team is about to ship out a player like KAT for Hunter and Capela.  That's the kind of stuff we make fun of other fans for.  We can stop fantasizing about it.

And Murray isn't a star player so I have no idea what y'all were expecting in return for him.  He's a mediocre efficiency volume scorer that is a neutral on defense, at best.  His play making is not good -- we all know that, we watched him for 2 years.  Expecting anything more than what we got is unrealistic.  Instead of praising Landry for negotiating an unprotected Lakers 1st in the deal, over a Pelicans 1st, it's just more piling on.  Show me a materially better deal for Murray and I'll show you a fan base that laughs you out of the room.

The good news that while most here have been slow to recognize we're sailing on a broken ship (thanks FQ, love that analogy), Landry saw that when he took over.  He's already diligently tested the market for our player values and analyzed the many paths forward.  This is exactly why we had a development and assessment year last season (that lucky for us, very lucky for us, landed us a 1st pick).  And now we've restocked on some picks, got young talent in to develop, and have reason to be remotely hopeful for the future.  So while everyone else was crossing their fingers we could trade away blocks of silver for blocks of gold, he's been executing on a path forward that is focused on more than a 6th seed next season.

No idea how you came up with that roster.   This is just the same old discussion.  There are players that move every year that are difference makers not stars.  We see them in the playoffs but they don't come here.   How long are we going to use the 'well we have bad contracts that keep us from doing anything' excuse?  

We're sitting here with Trae and one solid vet in Bogi.   Some negative value contracts in Cap, Hunter.  And a bunch of hope and prayers for players developing skills or size that they don't have now.  I'm not sure how this can be judged acceptable.  Other good teams who have a top 15 player don't just sit on their hands the way we do.  

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No idea how you came up with that roster.   

It's a try hard but failed exercise as he assumes we never, ever move Huerter and Collins at any point, we still offer Hunter an overpaid contract, we extend Clint Capela, we extend Bogi.....it's an unserious attempt trying to prove a point that isn't being made.

[Packfill]

39 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

You know every team in the league has to prune salary, right?  I assume you also noticed the champion Nuggets roster has to prune salary?  The Clippers just pruned Paul George out of the building.  Golden State pruned their way out of the tax.  It's not even fair to call it salary shedding when you shed a player like Kevin Heurter, whose replacement value is league average, at best.  OR when you "prune" JC off the roster and allow Jalen Johnson to blossom.

Based on the logic of your consistent complaints around salary shedding, here's a quick thought exercise.  How many wins are the Hawks at next year with this $206M top 3 most expensive roster:

• Trae / Kobe / Dyson
• Bogi / Heurter / Dyson
• Hunter / Kyle Anderson / Risacher
• Jalen / Collins / Nance
• Capela / Okongwu / Nance

This is what you continuously argue for -- loads of depth: mediocre, expensive, depth.  The next logical place to direct emotional frustration is "well they should package these guys and consolidate for a star", which misses the reality of that's not possible.  No one wants Hunter + Capela for their all-star.  No one wants any combination of these players and a couple firsts for their star player.  Imagine reading your team is about to ship out a player like KAT for Hunter and Capela.  That's the kind of stuff we make fun of other fans for.  We can stop fantasizing about it.

And Murray isn't a star player so I have no idea what y'all were expecting in return for him.  He's a mediocre efficiency volume scorer that is a neutral on defense, at best.  His play making is not good -- we all know that, we watched him for 2 years.  Expecting anything more than what we got is unrealistic.  Instead of praising Landry for negotiating an unprotected Lakers 1st in the deal, over a Pelicans 1st, it's just more piling on.  Show me a materially better deal for Murray and I'll show you a fan base that laughs you out of the room.

The good news that while most here have been slow to recognize we're sailing on a broken ship (thanks FQ, love that analogy), Landry saw that when he took over.  He's already diligently tested the market for our player values and analyzed the many paths forward.  This is exactly why we had a development and assessment year last season (that lucky for us, very lucky for us, landed us a 1st pick).  And now we've restocked on some picks, got young talent in to develop, and have reason to be remotely hopeful for the future.  So while everyone else was crossing their fingers we could trade away blocks of silver for blocks of gold, he's been executing on a path forward that is focused on more than a 6th seed next season.

I would note that last year was not a "development and assessment year."  It was certainly an assessment year but outside of JJ there was no development, all the young guys either plateaued (OO) or did not play (AJ, KB, etc.) and the team rolled with vets.

This will be a developmental year if the roster stays as constructed because the team will be forced to play the young guys - Risacher and Daniels in particular, though maybe Bufkin gets some run too.  Meaingful minutes next year for those guys will hopefully pay substantial dividends down the road but the team is absolutely going to have to deal with the growing pains.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Time to move on and move forward.  An additional $12-14M in spending would not have saved the DeJohnTrae Hawks.  We had/have a lot of bad salary to prune.  

This feels like the same half measure right now.  Keep Trae but don't actually try to win.  If we are trying, we are failing.

Lots of bad decisions compounding one on another.  No real vision.  Execution lacking.

[theheroatl]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

This feels like the same half measure right now.  Keep Trae but don't actually try to win.  If we are trying, we are failing.

Lots of bad decisions compounding one on another.  No real vision.  Execution lacking.

I agree this 100%

 

The only thing exciting me right now about this season is JJ and Risacher and seeing how they progress

 

That may be what the front office is thinking too.. That's all.

 

Not contending, just hoping for progression from JJ and Risacher and Bufkin

Edited Wednesday at 04:07 PM by theheroatl

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

I agree this 100%

 

The only thing exciting me right now about this season is JJ and Risacher and seeing how they progress

 

That may be what the front office is thinking too.. That's all.

 

Not contending, just hoping for progression from JJ and Risacher and Bufkin

Definitely looking forward to JJ and  Risacher.  I'm also very interested in Daniels, Bufkin, and Gueye as well as if the team can take a step forward just from no longer running two point guards next to one another.  Seeing the battles for starting/finishing spots among the wings.  Do we move on from CC or does Quin keep starting him?

My fear with a "let's just see how the young guys develop" approach is that you will lose Trae as a result and we will be truly entering a tank a year from now but facing no control over our picks at the same time.  I feel like we should be trying to maximize our team for the next couple of years and then decide to either cut bait with Trae and start over, trade Trae for assets to retool, or find success and resign Trae and keep building.  If we aren't really trying very much over the next year that seems like it is a path doomed to failure because we won't be good enough to make noise and we don't have a path to success like us falling out of the playoff picture last season and getting phenomenally lucky got us with the #1 pick.  That seems like a path that is almost sure to sour things with Trae as he stares as UFA and you seem pot committed to trying to succeed with him for the next couple years unless they deal him this offseason which would kind of shock me at this point.

[Bonzaii58]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Seems like they are always a day late and a dollar short on trades. 

I get it trades are hard, with lots of moving pieces and parts and everyone has to agree - the biggest hurdle for them though, is they always seem to be working from a disadvantage because they are limited by an owner mandate to 'avoid the tax.' 

I've always said, I understand getting under the tax since it offers more flexibility to allow them to do bigger things to improve - I'm still waiting for the BIGGER THINGS in all these instances.

I'm getting old - I only have so much patience left in me.

Yup. Always an excuse for why we’re late to the party.  

[theheroatl]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Definitely looking forward to JJ and  Risacher.  I'm also very interested in Daniels, Bufkin, and Gueye as well as if the team can take a step forward just from no longer running two point guards next to one another.  Seeing the battles for starting/finishing spots among the wings.  Do we move on from CC or does Quin keep starting him?

My fear with a "let's just see how the young guys develop" approach is that you will lose Trae as a result and we will be truly entering a tank a year from now but facing no control over our picks at the same time.  I feel like we should be trying to maximize our team for the next couple of years and then decide to either cut bait with Trae and start over, trade Trae for assets to retool, or find success and resign Trae and keep building.  If we aren't really trying very much over the next year that seems like it is a path doomed to failure because we won't be good enough to make noise and we don't have a path to success like us falling out of the playoff picture last season and getting phenomenally lucky got us with the #1 pick.  That seems like a path that is almost sure to sour things with Trae as he stares as UFA and you seem pot committed to trying to succeed with him for the next couple years unless they deal him this offseason which would kind of shock me at this point.

We saw this with Portland.. it can reset your franchise back 10 years

[JeffS17]

35 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

I agree this 100%

 

The only thing exciting me right now about this season is JJ and Risacher and seeing how they progress

 

That may be what the front office is thinking too.. That's all.

 

Not contending, just hoping for progression from JJ and Risacher and Bufkin

Agree with the bolded part, can't wait to see JJ and Risacher and more Kobe next year.  Also looking forward seeing Daniels get some run.

For the bolded part, or bolded word, rather, I think this is what a lot of people here are missing.  The front office is not hoping for progression, they are doing everything in their power to ensure progression.  The front office's entire strategic philosophy banks on progression from the players; this is why Landry brought in Quin.  This is why together they brought in Igor, and Brey, and Bailey.  This is why we've invested heavily in our College Park program and aligned the play down there to what the main squad is doing.  It's why Landry is focusing on team culture and the oft-mocked "Hawks DNA".  They are intentionally bringing guys in who want to be better, who want to sacrifice for team, who will put in the work to improve their game.  While everyone here yearns for opposing GM incompetence, and clamors for Landry to flip turds into gold nuggets, they are getting the train back on the rails in a sustainable way.

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Agree with the bolded part, can't wait to see JJ and Risacher and more Kobe next year.  Also looking forward seeing Daniels get some run.

For the bolded part, or bolded word, rather, I think this is what a lot of people here are missing.  The front office is not hoping for progression, they are doing everything in their power to ensure progression.  The front office's entire strategic philosophy banks on progression from the players; this is why Landry brought in Quin.  This is why together they brought in Igor, and Brey, and Bailey.  This is why we've invested heavily in our College Park program and aligned the play down there to what the main squad is doing.  It's why Landry is focusing on team culture and the oft-mocked "Hawks DNA".  They are intentionally bringing guys in who want to be better, who want to sacrifice for team, who will put in the work to improve their game.  While everyone here yearns for opposing GM incompetence, and clamors for Landry to flip turds into gold nuggets, they are getting the train back on the rails in a sustainable way.

Long way of saying rebuilding.