Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[Spud2nique]

Risacher is to Wiseman as Sarr is to Ant . This draft is backwards, the big is better than the wing.

 

Risacher ain’t the one. This guy is gonna bust. He reminds me of Vlatko Čančar. Very robotic type wing 🪽 that won’t translate well.

 

Risacher isn’t the one… 

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The number 1 reason, the added weight impedes their athleticism.

But Sarr specifically said he isn’t trying to be more than around 240-250 lbs. He isn’t going the Josh Smoove route of just adding weight he can’t handle. Smoove added weight and lost everything he had as far as quickness on D. Sarr has a Bruce Lee mentality, he only adds weight to the frame if it’s he’s able to perform. I feel like the international guys are better in this department whereas the guys from the states add weight that they can’t handle, it’s just what I’ve seen from players.

Cept for Jokic and Luka. They are just sloppy fat European’s that can play. But again to your point, there are only a few sloppy euros the rest might just be European couch potatoes who watch European vacation over and over on regular cable.

[kg01]

34 minutes ago, thecampster said:

This is very true. If you skip the highlights and go straight to "needs to improve" in the highlight videos, there are many instances of him getting abused down low and by shorter players. He gets bullied in the post and struggles when he is the primary defender. If he's the primary defender you can give up on him getting a rebound. 90% of his blocks come on help defense, weak side blocks, chase downs. But 1v1 defense near the basket (post ups, big men 1v1 drives, etc) he gets owned on the regular. Not growing up as a big shows.

He'll get abused in the pick n roll lob game big man drives (Lebron, Giannis, Zion, Jalen Johnson types).  He's got a much better shot as a big 4 (like Garnett, Durant) because much more of that game is played on the perimeter now.  The modern center has too many responsibilities and strength is every bit as important as mobility.  I'm just not sold based on his limitations.

As for the highlight plays. He played the backup center in a much smaller league, where the guard play off the bench was Trent Forrest level. Slow drives, no elite ball handlers. Those watching his perimeter defense are seeing how he'd defend Forrest. They are not seeing how he'd defend Haliburton on the perimeter. His rebounding, post defense was against backup NBL centers. It wasn't against Lopez, Nurkic, Capela types, more or less Embiid/Davis. He is years away. You draft him at 1, you are going to pay him $10 million a year to play a lot at College Park and to come in when we're down 30.  Right now, John Collins would own him in the post.  

You can't even toss it to him in the post for a reset because he doesn't have the post handles for 2 dribbles and punch it back out. He's a project, not a player right now and anyone saying differently is drinking the Kool-aid.

Please read this article before anymore Jamestown kool-aid drinking wastes a #1 overall pick. Focus on the below paragraph.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/nbl-vs-nba-5-major-differences-two-leagues-decoding-makes-nba-better

 

 

He was the backup center in this league getting 9 ppg and 4.7 boards.  He got 7.7/3 in their playoffs.  This is not 1st overall pick worthy.  Please have some sense here.  You draft Sarr, he isn't playing meaningful minutes for 3 years while handicapping the team with a substantial salary. Are you willing to wait?  You draft Clingan, he can at least be a bench center this year.  

This all hurts my feelings, tc.  I feel you reached inside my soul and snatched out a handful of the essence that resides within me.

Seriously though, I can buy that Sarr's best future is as a 4.  If his potential as 4 is super high, is he the pick anyway due to BPA-ness?

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Risacher is to Wiseman as Sarr is to Ant . This draft is backwards, the big is better than the wing.

 

Risacher ain’t the one. This guy is gonna bust. He reminds me of Vlatko Čančar. Very robotic type wing 🪽 that won’t translate well.

 

Risacher isn’t the one… 

But what if the 'big' (Sarr) is actually a wing? 

[KB21]

Sarr will get stronger without losing athleticism.  
 

Clingan will never be athletic enough to guard in space.  

[KB21]

Why would anyone prefer the limited drop big to the modern switchable big?   It makes no sense.  

[JTB]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

I've gone back and forth on Sarr a few times already.  Risacher has really good length for his position and that shot looks like it will translate.  Less of a gamble than Sarr, but I am not fully sold on him either.  His highlight reels are mostly making open shots. 

He'll take some time to develop, but could really see some devastating action with Bogi, Risacher, and Jalen.  Not exciting as a #1 pick, but maybe with this draft it's best to take a Cam Johnson or Trey Murphy type at #1 because there are no stars to be found.  

This is why I created the other thread asking who’s the safest pick in the draft?

Clingan is easily the safest big man pick in this draft over all other bigs.

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, JTB said:

This is why I created the other thread asking who’s the safest pick in the draft?

Clingan is easily the safest big man pick in this draft over all other bigs.

Saw this somewhere:

⁩You don’t become a champion by playing it safe.

[JTB]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Saw this somewhere:

⁩You don’t become a champion by playing it safe.

Clingan isn’t just a safe pick…he’s a safe very capable DPOY candidate for years to come.

he ain’t in the top 5 discussion for no reason.

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, JTB said:

Clingan isn’t just a safe pick…he’s a safe very capable DPOY candidate for years to come.

he ain’t in the top 5 discussion for no reason.

He is going to be bad defensively in space.  He’s not going to be able to guard on the perimeter at all.  He will never be a shooter.  

[KB21]

Also, you can’t play JJ, OO, and Clingan together at all.  You can play JJ, OO, and Sarr together.  

[JayBirdHawk]

42 minutes ago, JTB said:

Clingan isn’t just a safe pick…he’s a safe very capable DPOY candidate for years to come.

he ain’t in the top 5 discussion for no reason.

What's his best defensive trait? 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What's his best defensive trait? 

Also, is he limited in what he can do on defense?

[KB21]

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/upside-swings-nba-draft-podcast/id1561566975?i=1000655346484
 

This is the podcast I mentioned.  You should listen to it.  

[JTB]

22 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What's his best defensive trait? 

Being a a true defensive anchor similar to Gobert.

his best trait that sticks out for his size is his pick and roll defense. He can play in space long enough for his teammate to retreat and get back on his man. His size allows him to retreat and wingspan is unreal.

He is a primary drop coverage center but elite at it.

Altering shots and elite rim protection from day 1. Despite what some may believe, these type of centers are still extremely valuable . Yes there are situations you don’t want the Clingan type to get into like guarding an elite scorer on the perimeter at the end of a game such as the Gobert on Luka but that’s also a coaching issue/flaw.

Clingan can mimic Gobert and likely be better offensively with time.

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Also, is he limited in what he can do on defense?

As a drop coverage center no he’s not limited but I’ll play your game…is Clingan as versatile as Sarr defensively? No, sarr is of course more mobile but sarr has limits too whether you want to admit it or not.

sarr has to overcome strength and physicality. Two things Clingan is walking into the door with. You have to strategically think about all matchups not just one.

in the nba today you need mobile bigs but you also still need the big bruisers for guys like jokic, Embiid, AD, and maybe Drummond lol cause he’ll take advantage of smaller frame bigs like Sarr too.

 

AT THE END OF DAY KNOW THIS….this is where I’m different from the @NBASupes and @KB21….I believe that in this era of the nba you need both powerful traditional bigs and mobile new era bigs. I want both Sarr + Clingan or Sarr + Edey because I know we can get one of these combos.

when you really break it all down completely every team need both types and it’s rare to get it all in one. Mavs are lucky lively didn’t have to deal with Jokic in the WCF….they wouldn’t look like geniuses then.

 

i keep saying this…we have had big man issues for far too long. Whether it’s vs speed or power it’s been a big issue. Hawks have an opportunity in THIS DRAFT to fulfill both needs and they should absolutely do it!

You can find your POA defender via trade easier than you can fill your big man needs.

[KB21]

It’s pure insanity to expect Clingan to become what is the 90th percentile outcome for him when he is far more likely to be another Walker Kessler than Rudy Gobert.  

[AtLaS]

If Gobert is Clingan's ceiling we definitely don't want him.  He's always a problem in the playoffs, matchups will kill him.  Someone like Horford/Klieber/Porzingis or any small ball C would eat him alive.  Clingan can't shoot free throws, so you are handicapped in crunch time.  I'm tired of having players who can't shoot FTs, it absolutely kills you in tight games, and we are always in tight games.  Plus he doesn't space the floor and we need floor spacing at the 5 to activate Trae.  No more lane cloggers.  

Absolutely no to Clingan.  Even if he improves in some of those areas he just doesn't have star potential at all.  

Sarr has to be the pick. Going to be so pissed if we pass on him.  Would be SO typical Hawks.

[Hawkmoor]

Clingan might be slightly faster than Edey.  It would be a 1 minute 100 meter dash between the both of them in a foot race.  If its possible his footwork looks even goofier than Edey's.  You got to have footwork. The NBA isn't college where you can post a 7 footer up on midgets in the paint and he looks like a Allstar.  Nikola Jokic has footwork combined with moves. He also rarely brings the ball down to chest level when in the paint.  Its straight up.  Edey and Clingan dribble too much to try and get into position. Jokic dribbles mainly to get TO the paint. Clingan and Edey can't do that.  Clingan and Edey are just big. Thats it. NBA Supes has this vision of what he wants to see and Edey and Clingan ain't it.

 

Edited June 1 by Hawkmoor

[KB21]

The reason Ressler would want Clingan is that he average fan knows who he is, and he already has marketability.   
 

[terrell]

19 hours ago, AtLaS said:

Risacher looks good in highlights but Im just not sold.  He looks like a Hunter clone, no assists, no rebounding, doesnt really get steals or blocks.  Hes not even a good FT shooter.  Lots of question marks on him.  And he is listed at 6’8.  Has he grown 2”?  
 

I just dont see the point of spending a #1 overall on a guy like that.  Sarr is a true freak, you take the chance on him every time. 

Hawks gonna Hawk....