Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[Wretch]

9 minutes ago, mountainjim said:

BK was such a pompous ass in that role 

Totally.  I don't miss his smug standard answers and that "I don't have to tell you anything" look on his face.  I really disliked BK.

[Hawkmoor]

28 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Watch the film.  I’m not a Clingan fan, but he’s a much better mover than Edey.  

He appears faster but footwork is more off in my opinion.  Really like I've said over and over, this is like comparing Jon Koncak to Patrick Ewing.  No way you consider Clingan when Sarr is on the board.  If the Falcons can get it together and put WINNING over optics (which they have), the Hawks can too.  They have put marketing secondary and winning first.  Drafting a slow Clingan doesn't even help Trae Young for the many folks who want to keep him.  Too slow for pick and roll.  Teams have already figured out that you put fast guys on Trae and either hard hedge him or blitz him.  Then you want to compound that with a slow Clingan?

 

Edited June 3 by Hawkmoor

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah, but the specific rumor is about trying to get Risacher and Clingan.  Not Buzelis and Clingan or Castle and Clingan.  

Right.  I’m reading it somewhat as them preferring Risacher and then trying to get back in to get Clingan somewhere lower.  That is consistent with your statement that the FO likes Sarr and Risacher.  (I have no special insight into who the FO likes other than what I read on the internet.)

[KB21]

 

 

[KB21]

If you are trying to equate Clingan’s potential impact to that of Dereck Lively as a rookie, just remember that Lively moves his feet much better and isn’t a drop only big.  

[JTB]

59 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If you are trying to equate Clingan’s potential impact to that of Dereck Lively as a rookie, just remember that Lively moves his feet much better and isn’t a drop only big.  

Who’s comparing those two though ???

[Jody23]

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

They are really trying to move the #1 pick. I can't say more than what I have but the overall feeling I have talking to Hawks sources, Twolf source and my Klutch source is the Hawks want to walk out of draft night with Risacher and Cllingan.  Even if I'm wrong on reading the tea leaves I've been told by multiple sources I trust the Hawks are really trying hard to move the #1 pick.

Ressler never learns.  Smh.

[JTB]

On 6/2/2024 at 10:59 PM, KB21 said:

Here’s the other thing with taking Clingan that high.  If your basis on doing is to keep Trae happy, then you are likely going to lose him in 2 years anyway after taking Clingan.  Because now you are limited at center to drop only defense.  That scheme will get exposed in the playoffs like it does every year.  We aren’t good enough defensively on the perimeter to be a drop only defense.  So now, in two years you have this limited drop only big whose offensive value is 100% derived from Trae Young, and you have no Trae Young.  

 

9 hours ago, Sothron said:

Hawks seem to be leaning to trying to come out of the draft with Risacher and Clingan. Sarr very much still in play at #1. Feeling I'm getting, this is me reading tea leaves from sources intel, is if they don't think they can get both Risacher and Clingan the play it safe move is to just take Sarr at #1 and call it.

 

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

They are really trying to move the #1 pick. I can't say more than what I have but the overall feeling I have talking to Hawks sources, Twolf source and my Klutch source is the Hawks want to walk out of draft night with Risacher and Cllingan.  Even if I'm wrong on reading the tea leaves I've been told by multiple sources I trust the Hawks are really trying hard to move the #1 pick.

This is all interesting let me try to put it all together from what is being speculated (definitely understand this is just early rumors)……

Let me set it up and start off talking about drop coverage defense. In my opinion Synder and his staff must be behind this not just Ressler and I’m saying that because I believe Trae is being kept in mind regarding best defensive scheme to put around Trae. So what @KB21 says will get exposed once the playoffs come around I agree if we don’t have perimeter defenders.

Playing devils advocate for a second , when Gobert was in Utah under Synder he didn’t have multiple strong perimeter defenders. In fact they were pretty poor in my opinion as whole, therefore the defense got exposed once the playoffs hit for Utah and Quinn knows this…BUT once you put Goberts defense next to good strong perimeter defenders you get a deep playoff run by the Twolves. Gobert had a good defensive playoff run this season and the wolves offense was the bigger concern as they couldn’t generate points and badly need a playmaker. Two things that will not happen with Trae, Jalen, and adding the passing ability of Clingan if they draft him , which Gobert does not possess.
But back to my point…I believe Synder also wants Clingan and he knows that Clingan is going to need some POA defenders and overall good perimeter defense guys even if the drop coverage scheme does work well in the regular season, therefore the Insider rumors seem to be a clear that the hawks FO knows this.

In the insiders thread, rumor is:

Potential trade with Pelicans that COULD net us Herb Jones & Ingram. Herb is dominant and proven all around defender that can guard multiple positions 1-5. Ingram has improved his defense vastly over the past two years. Jalen is good on ball defense but need to improve off ball. Add these lengthy 3 to Clingan and that’s a sure fire defensive improvement.

So a starting lineup if this rumor came true probably looks like….with Ingram, Herb, Jalen all being interchangeable and the ability to switch 2-4.

Trae

Ingram

Jalen

Herb

Clingan

then in this thread, rumor is:

Hawks want to walk away with Risacher who’s being said as a strongest two way 3&D player in this draft and Clingan, the best defensive CENTER in this draft (Sarr is not a center, he’s the best and most gifted versatile player in the draft).

so a starting lineup for this one probably looks like….

Trae

Bogi

Risacher 

Jalen

Clingan

 

Both of these rumors would HAVE to involve the same two players in each framework:

DJ & Hunter. I certainly believe you can move back up in this years draft if you trade Murray and include Hunter. I also believe you can get Ingram and Herb if you trade Murray, Hunter, & OO.

 

So if that’s the potential starting lineups which trade rumor is the best outcome for the Hawks?!

personally I prefer we do the trade with the pelicans and draft either Sarr or Clingan. I would not be very high on trading Murray and Hunter in a package to get back in the top 5 so we can come away with Risacher at #2 and Clingan at the other top 5 or 6 pick.  Once I thought about the possible starting lineup after we get Risacher and Clingan ….nah!…if we are going to trade back up in the draft to get these two we need plans to obtain another key vet defender. Risachers defense is avg at best and it’s being overrated badly. 

[Spud2nique]

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

Risacher and Cllingan. 

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

Risacher and Cllingan. 

 

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

Risacher and Cllingan.

Edited June 4 by Spud2nique

[macdaddy]

If we're starting Risacher and Clingan next season then we're just back in the play in or worse.   Let's get serious about winning.  

[bird_dirt]

16 hours ago, Sothron said:

They are really trying to move the #1 pick. I can't say more than what I have but the overall feeling I have talking to Hawks sources, Twolf source and my Klutch source is the Hawks want to walk out of draft night with Risacher and Cllingan.  Even if I'm wrong on reading the tea leaves I've been told by multiple sources I trust the Hawks are really trying hard to move the #1 pick.

Hawks trying to get two nickels for a dime. SMH. 

[KB21]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

 

 

This is all interesting let me try to put it all together from what is being speculated (definitely understand this is just early rumors)……

Let me set it up and start off talking about drop coverage defense. In my opinion Synder and his staff must be behind this not just Ressler and I’m saying that because I believe Trae is being kept in mind regarding best defensive scheme to put around Trae. So what @KB21 says will get exposed once the playoffs come around I agree if we don’t have perimeter defenders.

Playing devils advocate for a second , when Gobert was in Utah under Synder he didn’t have multiple strong perimeter defenders. In fact they were pretty poor in my opinion as whole, therefore the defense got exposed once the playoffs hit for Utah and Quinn knows this…BUT once you put Goberts defense next to good strong perimeter defenders you get a deep playoff run by the Twolves. Gobert had a good defensive playoff run this season and the wolves offense was the bigger concern as they couldn’t generate points and badly need a playmaker. Two things that will not happen with Trae, Jalen, and adding the passing ability of Clingan if they draft him , which Gobert does not possess.
But back to my point…I believe Synder also wants Clingan and he knows that Clingan is going to need some POA defenders and overall good perimeter defense guys even if the drop coverage scheme does work well in the regular season, therefore the Insider rumors seem to be a clear that the hawks FO knows this.

In the insiders thread, rumor is:

Potential trade with Pelicans that COULD net us Herb Jones & Ingram. Herb is dominant and proven all around defender that can guard multiple positions 1-5. Ingram has improved his defense vastly over the past two years. Jalen is good on ball defense but need to improve off ball. Add these lengthy 3 to Clingan and that’s a sure fire defensive improvement.

So a starting lineup if this rumor came true probably looks like….with Ingram, Herb, Jalen all being interchangeable and the ability to switch 2-4.

Trae

Ingram

Jalen

Herb

Clingan

then in this thread, rumor is:

Hawks want to walk away with Risacher who’s being said as a strongest two way 3&D player in this draft and Clingan, the best defensive CENTER in this draft (Sarr is not a center, he’s the best and most gifted versatile player in the draft).

so a starting lineup for this one probably looks like….

Trae

Bogi

Risacher 

Jalen

Clingan

 

Both of these rumors would HAVE to involve the same two players in each framework:

DJ & Hunter. I certainly believe you can move back up in this years draft if you trade Murray and include Hunter. I also believe you can get Ingram and Herb if you trade Murray, Hunter, & OO.

 

So if that’s the potential starting lineups which trade rumor is the best outcome for the Hawks?!

personally I prefer we do the trade with the pelicans and draft either Sarr or Clingan. I would not be very high on trading Murray and Hunter in a package to get back in the top 5 so we can come away with Risacher at #2 and Clingan at the other top 5 or 6 pick.  Once I thought about the possible starting lineup after we get Risacher and Clingan ….nah!…if we are going to trade back up in the draft to get these two we need plans to obtain another key vet defender. Risachers defense is avg at best and it’s being overrated badly. 

Snyder also realized the limitations of drop only in Utah and was in the process of changing the scheme over his final two years there, but he was limited with how much he could change it because of his drop only big.  

[Gray Mule]

I want!   I want!  I want!  Gray Mule, no one cares what you want.

Draft Alex Sarr #1, then trade with whoever takes Zach Edey and get him.

Trade whoever else you want to trade for whatever you can get.  Should be some nice deals out there!

Listen to Spud about those 2nd round picks.  He has some good ideas!  We do have a 2nd, I assume.

 

[deester11]

I care @Gray Mule. Just pick Sarr.  The rest of this speculation is unfiltered crap.  Just a steamy pile of it.  

 

[txsting]

16 hours ago, thecampster said:

Holy crap! Did you just acknowledge Edey was better than someone at something? I know it was a mistake. I'll give you a sec to take it back if you want.

Edey has 100 stamina, everyone knows that.  He never leaves the game because he is tired.  It's kind of freakish for a guy that big to have that much energy.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Listen to Spud about those 2nd round picks.  He has some good ideas!  We do have a 2nd, I assume.

Thank you sir! 

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

I want!   I want!  I want!  Gray Mule, no one cares what you want.

True in life too. Survive and strive!

[Packfill]

17 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

He appears faster but footwork is more off in my opinion.  Really like I've said over and over, this is like comparing Jon Koncak to Patrick Ewing.  No way you consider Clingan when Sarr is on the board.  If the Falcons can get it together and put WINNING over optics (which they have), the Hawks can too.  They have put marketing secondary and winning first.  Drafting a slow Clingan doesn't even help Trae Young for the many folks who want to keep him.  Too slow for pick and roll.  Teams have already figured out that you put fast guys on Trae and either hard hedge him or blitz him.  Then you want to compound that with a slow Clingan?

 

I don't quite understand the comparison between Ewing and Kontract.  Ewing was the no doubt #1 pick.  Kontact wasn't -  and he wasn't even the second center off the board, albeit in what was then a center dominated draft era.  

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

2:03 KG comparison

5:17 Trae is the greatest LOB passer OF ALL TIME, ALL 80 years of the league.

I like this dude I agree.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Packfill said:

Kontract

...never gets old.