Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[AHF]

Edey discussion moved to Edey thread.

[Gray Mule]

$$$$$ Payroll discussion

Someone wanted to trade the #1 pick for two lesser draft picks, saying the #1 pick has too big of a hit on the payroll.  The truth is, if we trade #1 for 2 other picks, these two picks will be costing more payroll than the #1 pick.

Some of our big $$$ payroll hit players are going to be on the trading block.  We Squawk posters believe that this upcoming Hawk team will look much different than the one we had at the end of last season.  Supes has told us of several players that other teams are inquiring about.  Too much smoke.  Bound to be a little spark of fire in there somewhere.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, Threezus said:

Absolutely i can for Edey im a supporter of his my friend i'll gladly take him over Clingan.   As for Sarr im talking more about his athleticism, handles, and moves he can do with the ball in his hand.  Playing like a SG or SF at 7 ft plus like a Durant or greak freak.  You just don't see 7 ft+ guys with that type of potential upside as usually when you get that big.  It also comes with limitations on what your body will allow you to do  like a Rudy Gobert.  Very good player but i can promise you no one is taking him over other talll skilled athletic guys like Durant or Freak.   Wembenyana and Sarr if they get their shots better and learn to hit from 3 at a 35% range comfortably has the handles and skill set to be legit focal points of a offense.  Kevin Durant is probably the best version of this at 6'10+ and to me thats generational.  

As for Edey yeah i have no issue what so ever saying his rebounding and back to the basket game are top of the line and i like him quite a bit.  He is the more traditional type of center and a good one at that and while he does need to work on his defense a good bit compared to saar and clingan i think his down low game is better than both of them right now.   

To me you can pair Sarr and Edey quite easily because both of their games are legit different in their play style.  They shouldn't overlap each other much and thats why i would be ok with taking Sarr at 1 then grabbing edey at like 8 to 10 or so if we can get a pick in there and he is available. 

I've made the point a few times that if you take Sarr, you taking him as a project 4 and therefore he doesn't have to put on 30 lbs. So to your point, yes. But I think most on the Sarr train are under the impression he can play the 5 right now.  Yes he can switch on the perimeter but 80% of nba 4's/5's would bully him in the post right now.  Bruno look like Bill Russell posting him up.  As a 4 you have a better shot of him retaining his athleticism and being able to defend his man 1v1.

[thecampster]

Just now, Gray Mule said:

 

Someone wanted to trade the #1 pick for two lesser draft picks, saying the #1 pick has too big of a hit on the payroll.  The truth is, if we trade #1 for 2 other picks, these two picks will be costing more payroll than the #1 pick.

But that leaves a roster spot open 1v2. The minimum salary vet makes the difference negligible. That min salary vet will be an end of the bench guy and the current projected possible 1's would also be end of the bench or college park year 1. Meaning you're basically wasting that $12.5 in salary year 1, maybe 2.  The "other 2 picks" concept is to draft more NBA ready but lower ceiling players so you have 2 more rotational pieces on the roster.

[Threezus]

Just now, thecampster said:

I've made the point a few times that if you take Sarr, you taking him as a project 4 and therefore he doesn't have to put on 30 lbs. So to your point, yes. But I think most on the Sarr train are under the impression he can play the 5 right now.  Yes he can switch on the perimeter but 80% of nba 4's/5's would bully him in the post right now.  Bruno look like Bill Russell posting him up.  As a 4 you have a better shot of him retaining his athleticism and being able to defend his man 1v1.

I have never wanted to take him as a 5 i have him as a 4 all day long.  Onyeka is strong as a ox and can handle 5's in most cases just like Bam can.  If you get Edey as a backup or swap in on much bigger 5's to help onyeka then even better.    Now if Sarr gets stronger as he grows into his grown man body and keeps his athleticism still at like 240 to 250 then sure let him slide to 5 at times when needed.  But to me  as i just said in another thread with jaybird.   Jalen at 3, Sarr at 4, and Onyeka/Edey at 5  is about the best big man group you can hope for around Trae with length, defense, and size at 3 key positions.   Then find a really good offball 2 way SG like Caruso or  maybe even ingram at the 2 for a tryout with that group and i think you are cooking. 

[FL_BRYANT]

Ok humor me a little. This is kind of out there but why not draft both Sarr and Edey.   Here is how you do it, first draft Sarr then use your assets of Hunter, Capela, Bogi, Griffin,Matthews, OO, etc to aquire the draft pick needed to get Edey. 

I use what is left to get   someone like Ingram, Keldon Johnson, Trey Murphy, Jordan Hawkins etc to complete my perimeter. I would take a good look at perimeter defenders to fill out my roster.

Can this work, I don't know but would it be any worse than what we're working with now. A roster of Trae,Murray, JJ, Sarr, Edey,Griffin, Matthews, Bupkin, OO, Gueye, Windler, Bey possibly  Ingram,, Murphy, or Hawkins. That gives us a real strong team. We will have to give up Hunter Capela, OO maybe Bogi or Matthews etc but we could have a competitive team without a complete rebuild.  I know it's a pipe dream but isn't that what these boards are for? Could it happen probably not but it would be a nice starting point. I'm sure you can shoot holes in it but it would give us something to work with. 

That would be an exciting team not  too many high priced ball players and only a few trades would have to be made. Tweaks can be made once we see how it works.  Let's have no fear.

GO HAWKS  !!!

[KB21]

[Packfill]

18 hours ago, Threezus said:

I have never wanted to take him as a 5 i have him as a 4 all day long.  Onyeka is strong as a ox and can handle 5's in most cases just like Bam can.  If you get Edey as a backup or swap in on much bigger 5's to help onyeka then even better.    Now if Sarr gets stronger as he grows into his grown man body and keeps his athleticism still at like 240 to 250 then sure let him slide to 5 at times when needed.  But to me  as i just said in another thread with jaybird.   Jalen at 3, Sarr at 4, and Onyeka/Edey at 5  is about the best big man group you can hope for around Trae with length, defense, and size at 3 key positions.   Then find a really good offball 2 way SG like Caruso or  maybe even ingram at the 2 for a tryout with that group and i think you are cooking. 

I think it is okay to dream on a JJ/Sarr/OO front line but I think that will be a disaster on offense from a spacing perspective for at least a season or two.  OO and Sarr still have a lot of growth needed as shooters from an accuracy perspective and both will need to show they can shoot with enough accuracy, and with enough volume, to stretch defenses.

[Gray Mule]

Last season, Bey brought more toughness than any other Hawk and we sore lessly missed this when he went down.

[hawkman]

Just now, Gray Mule said:

Last season, Bey brought more toughness than any other Hawk and we sore lessly missed this when he went down.

Agreed. His toughness and scrappy play almost made up for his shooting slump. Almost.

[JayBirdHawk]

This was from June 5th.

 

[Jody23]

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wretch]

I don't have a lot to say about where Sarr will end up position-wise.  Probably because I'm just biased towards BPA/upside in general.  If I owned or ran an NBA team, I'd prioritize potential over everything.  Obviously no decision should be made without careful scrutiny, but that notwithstanding...I'd draft irrespective of position if the talent is there.  Unless you're 110% sure you're taking a player with equal or greater upside, you take the talent that's in your face and figure the rest out later. 

It worked out for Cleveland in 2019 when they took Garland.  And look at the '84 draft.  As much as people like to go on about Michael Jordan being drafted 3rd, the '84 Blazers were positively stuffed on the wing.  It's a famous example to be sure, but I'm sure a lot of teams missed on talent for that very kind reasoning.

If filling a hole is that important, then I'd just trade the pick (or the guy I drafted) for an established star or young talent at a position of need.

[KB21]

Givony trying to sell every prospect 

[Threezus]

2 hours ago, Packfill said:

I think it is okay to dream on a JJ/Sarr/OO front line but I think that will be a disaster on offense from a spacing perspective for at least a season or two.  OO and Sarr still have a lot of growth needed as shooters from an accuracy perspective and both will need to show they can shoot with enough accuracy, and with enough volume, to stretch defenses.

Which im ok with for a season or 2 while they work on it.  Im banking on upside here and i don't think any rookie is going to come in day 1 and be elite.  So i expect a season or 2 anyways to work on their game and be ready by season 3 to really see what they can do.  Sarr has already shot at 30% from 3 and is a 70+% FT shooter so it's not like he doesn't have the potential for it.  Onyeka has already started working on it as well.  Edey i don't expect to ever be the guy who can do it and is more a traditional swap in big. 

[KB21]

Notice who is not in this photo?

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Wretch said:

I don't have a lot to say about where Sarr will end up.  Probably because I'm just biased towards BPA/upside in general.  If I owned or ran an NBA team, I'd prioritize potential over everything.  Obviously no decision should be made without careful scrutiny, but that notwithstanding...I'd draft irrespective of position if the talent is there.  Unless you're 110% sure you're taking a player with equal or greater upside, you take the talent that's in your face and figure the rest out later. 

It worked out for Cleveland in 2019 when they took Garland.  And look at the '84 draft.  As much as people like to go on about Michael Jordan being drafted 3rd, the '84 Blazers were positively stuffed on the wing.  It's a famous example to be sure, but I'm sure a lot of teams missed on talent for that very kind reasoning.

If filling a hole is that important, then I'd just trade the pick (or the guy I drafted) for an established star or young talent at a position of need.

This may be not the draft to simply draft BPA versus fit 100%. Because there isn't really a clear cut BPA, so you may as well take FIT into consideration.

I bet this is the F.O. thoughts as well.....

I'm preparing myself for Clingan.....

[terrell]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Notice who is not in this photo?

Bronny? 

[KB21]