Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Drafting a player who can’t compete and adds little value otherwise, is. 

What does this mean?

[kg01]

7 hours ago, theheroatl said:

lol no thanks to trading with San Antonio. Even though it’s just fan fiction.

 

Also, at this point I’m warm to Sarr or Clingan

I tried to warn you not to lock it down so early.

Learn from my mistake, thero.  I locked it down early a few years ago and now I'll forever be the guy that touted something called 'Mo Bamba' for our pick that year. 

I'm Jacob Marley, you're Scrooge...... 

[JustSomeGuy]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What does this mean?

That in a risky draft, coming out of it with a contributor of any type can be seen as a win. Especially when that player also fits a need. 

I think when people hear that they get scared to think about the Chris Paul draft all over again, or Sheldon Williams. Looking back on that draft Andrew Bogut, while not sexy, was one of the best of a really bad group and was one of only a couple who played a major role on a championship team in his career. If you come out of a bad draft with that guy, you won. 

I’ve seen some posters suggest that swinging for the fences is what matters most and getting the player with the most upside. But I think what matters more than anything is getting a guy who can PLAY, regardless if it’s at star level or not. Because that guy will always have value and becomes an asset. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, JustSomeGuy said:

That in a risky draft, coming out of it with a contributor of any type can be seen as a win. Especially when that player also fits a need. 

I think when people hear that they get scared to think about the Chris Paul draft all over again, or Sheldon Williams. Looking back on that draft Andrew Bogut, while not sexy, was one of the best of a really bad group and was one of only a couple who played a major role on a championship team in his career. If you come out of a bad draft with that guy, you won. 

I’ve seen some posters suggest that swinging for the fences is what matters most and getting the player with the most upside. But I think what matters more than anything is getting a guy who can PLAY, regardless if it’s at star level or not. Because that guy will always have value and becomes an asset. 

So who don't you think can't play and why do you think that?

[JustSomeGuy]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So who don't you think can't play and why do you think that?

It’s not so much that I think these dudes can’t play. Respectfully, even a semi pro ball players is among the best in the world. 

But each of these guys have legit holes in their game that leave you concerned. For me, I’ve got the lottery guys I think fit us best ranked in tiers by fewest questions/holes. This doesn’t mean they should be in play at #1 just that I think there is a timeline to them contributing. 

Tier 1: Clingan, Holland, Buzelis, Knecht. Cody Williams - These are potential day 1 contributors who have a clear transferable skillset and meet one of our needs (Paint protection or wing depth). - Holland’s POA defense, motor, and transitional scoring potential move him up for me. He’s a competitor and has decent shot mechanics. Taking the ball out of his hands with Trae only increases his value. Knecht and Clingan are high floor guys ready FR the rotation and Buzelis, to me, is a souped up version of Rissacher who has played in NBA approximate conditions. Cody Williams scares me, he has all world defense potential and is a good shooter but gives me Hunter vibes in that there were games he didn’t impact in other ways (rebounding, passing). That said he’s probably more NBA ready than most here.

Tier 2: Sarr, Tidjane, Castle - these guys have production but are raw and may potentially not ready to contribute day 1. - Sarr is a wild card here depending on his frame and whether he can play with enough physicality he could easily be Tier 1. As a rim runner I think he’s good to go day 1 and offers positional upside next to OO. Tidjane is a hustle guy at this stage and Castle wants to be a point guard but has shown little perimeter skill to this point so he’s a complete question mark. His ceiling is Marcus Smart to me. 

Tier 3: Rissacher - These guys have holes in their games, a lack of production, or questions about positional versatility and athletic profile. - Rissacher hits all 3. Non explosive wings without length don’t do well in the NBA unless you have the doughy Luka, Paul Pierce body. And even in that case defense will always be a question. He struggles as a shot creator against lesser athletes and has shot the ball inconsistently. He’s the one prospect I’d avoid at this stage. 

 

Edited June 13 by JustSomeGuy

[Gray Mule]

 

Zach Edey Appears to be the wild card in this summer's draft.  Strange that no one even mentions him when they post about all the different players available.  

Hawks need size.  He qualifies.  Hawks need players that can play the first season.  He qualifies.  I want and expect the Hawks o take Sarr with their pick.  My hope is that some team will draft Edey, then trade him to Atlanta for a throw-in in a deal!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

z

Edited June 13 by Gray Mule

[KB21]

[theheroatl]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

I tried to warn you not to lock it down so early.

Learn from my mistake, thero.  I locked it down early a few years ago and now I'll forever be the guy that touted something called 'Mo Bamba' for our pick that year. 

I'm Jacob Marley, you're Scrooge...... 

sorry KG imma gonna learn from your mistakes

 

ima changed man I tell ya

Edited June 13 by theheroatl

[Final_quest]

Guys, read some takes on Sarr from outlets online.  Lots of legitimate outlets don't see him as a star and acknowledge he has a long way to go on offense.  Additionally, many don't project him as a 5.  

 

NBAdraft.net on Sarr's offense:

The offensive skillset is much more hypothetical at this point. It’s a lot of “maybes” without one surefire “definitely.” He might turn himself into a good shooter someday, but the release is still a bit slow, and the results are hit and miss. He might learn to navigate the delicate dance of an NBA pick and roll, but he is still very much locked into that straight-line, dive-to-the-hoop mindset.

 

From the Athletic:

This draft class is still seen as weak among NBA teams, particularly those at the top. I will not rank anyone in my Tier 1 or Tier 2, the first time that’s happened since I began using this system. Over the last two years, I’ve ranked nine players that highly, but this class doesn’t have anyone I’d consider a top-three pick in a normal draft.

[AHF]

22 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Guys, read some takes on Sarr from outlets online.  Lots of legitimate outlets don't see him as a star and acknowledge he has a long way to go on offense.  Additionally, many don't project him as a 5.  

 

NBAdraft.net on Sarr's offense:

The offensive skillset is much more hypothetical at this point. It’s a lot of “maybes” without one surefire “definitely.” He might turn himself into a good shooter someday, but the release is still a bit slow, and the results are hit and miss. He might learn to navigate the delicate dance of an NBA pick and roll, but he is still very much locked into that straight-line, dive-to-the-hoop mindset.

 

Also from NBAdraft.net on his defense:

Quote

Extremely mobile, and you won’t find a 7-footer who handles a guard on a switch or a pick and roll better than Sarr… Excellent rim protector … Reportedly measures 7’1″ with a 7’5″ wingspan, and has defensive anchor potential … 

Potentially a game changing defender due to his length and mobility. 

and his offense:

Quote

is developing into a legitimate threat facing the basket …

He can put the ball on the floor and get to the hoop fairly well for his size and finish with the dunk or lay up…

Fairly soft touch around the hoop … Can give a little hook shot or scoop lay up, including off of a drop step …  When he has the ball on offense in the paint, he goes aggressively to the rim to score or get fouled … Defenders have trouble with his length when he puts the ball on the floor to get to the hoop … Not great, but decent handle in the face up game … Can even grab a rebound and take the ball coast-to-coast… Goes up sky high and catches the lob … Excellent at cleaning up the offensive glass with putbacks … Despite a lack of efficiency, shows good form on his jumpshot

 

27 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

From the Athletic:

This draft class is still seen as weak among NBA teams, particularly those at the top. I will not rank anyone in my Tier 1 or Tier 2, the first time that’s happened since I began using this system. Over the last two years, I’ve ranked nine players that highly, but this class doesn’t have anyone I’d consider a top-three pick in a normal draft.

Also from the Athletic from one of their mock drafts:

Quote

Truthfully Sarr is No. 1....

In today's NBA, where there is more shooting than ever and better, more well-spaced offenses, it is essential for great defense to be able to cover as much ground as possible.  The ability to do so with length and movement, whether in off-ball help defense or in switching on-the-ball, is a differentiator for prospects....

Sarr covers ground on defense better than any player in this class.  He flies around the court, both as a rim protector and in help rotations...

He shows flashes of being able to shoot but has some funky side spin on his jumper.  He shows flashes of being able to handle the ball, but isn't tight enough to work on an NBA court yet.  He theoretically could be a good rim roller with his leaping ability and length, but his game tends to be more perimeter-based.  

His talent and tools are real enough to where I feel good about his upside, but he has a long way to go and no assurance he reaches that ceiling.  

The message seems to be that he has a lot of tools that are directly translatable to NBA defense and has shown skills that could make him really valuable on offense but has a ways to go to get there on the offensive end.  I'm ok with that. 

[terrell]

Back in Jan, Sarr was the clear #1... What changed??

 

Edited June 13 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

1. Atlanta Hawks: Zaccharie Risacher

1 OF 58

 

 

Gioele Mason/NBAE via Getty Images

June 7 Mock Draft Spot: No. 1

Team: JL Bourg-en-Bresse

Position: SG/SF

Size: 6'8", 204 lbs

Age/Year: 19

Nationality: French

Pro Comparison: Harrison Barnes

Rival teams continue to guess who the Atlanta Hawks prefer at No. 1. And we continue to give the edge to Zaccharie Risacher, a perceived safe pick with a valued archetype and pathways to improve and bust through the three-and-D level that he brings to JL Bourg.

While scouts continue to debate the height of Risacher's ceiling, there is a perceived level of certainty tied to his positional size, shooting and defensive tools/quickness. That could sway the Hawks to lean his way without a sure-thing star at the top. Injury problems with Saddiq Bey and AJ Griffin could also help the case for Risacher to Atlanta.

 

2. Washington Wizards: Alex Sarr

2 OF 58

 

COLIN MURTY/AFP via Getty Images

June 7 Mock Draft Spot: No. 2

Team: Perth Wildcats

Position: PF/C

Size: 7'0", 224 lbs

Age/Year: 19

Nationality: French

Pro Comparison: Evan Mobley

Teams and agents believe that if the Atlanta Hawks don't draft Alex Sarr, the Washington Wizards will take him at No. 2. He's expected to work out for the Wizards in the near future.

With Washington expected to be patient during its rebuild, it should be fitting suitors for the 19-year-old. Some scouts and executives have questioned his offensive polish for a potential No. 1 overall pick.

The rise and success of defensive bigs with perimeter skill sets—Evan Mobley, Jaren Jackson Jr., Chet Holmgren, Victor Wembanyama—adds to the allure of Sarr.

He measured well in Chicago, coming in at just under 7'0" in socks, 224 pounds with a 7'4" wingspan. At that size, the ability to slide his feet, handle in the open floor and shoot off the dribble separates him from other centers.

The Wizards will eventually need to find a point guard, but at No. 2, Sarr's physical talent, evolving skill versatility and defense create visions of upside that could be difficult to resist.

3. Reed Sheppard

4. Matas Buzelis

5. Cody Williams

6. Stephon Castle

7. Donovan Clingan

8. Devin Carter

9. Ron Holland

10. Dalton Knecht

 

 

2024 NBA Mock Draft: Top-5 Shakeup, Plus Full 2-Round Predictions with 2 Weeks to Go | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

[Bonkers]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

1. Atlanta Hawks: Zaccharie Risacher

1 OF 58

 

 

Gioele Mason/NBAE via Getty Images

June 7 Mock Draft Spot: No. 1

Team: JL Bourg-en-Bresse

Position: SG/SF

Size: 6'8", 204 lbs

Age/Year: 19

Nationality: French

Pro Comparison: Harrison Barnes

Rival teams continue to guess who the Atlanta Hawks prefer at No. 1. And we continue to give the edge to Zaccharie Risacher, a perceived safe pick with a valued archetype and pathways to improve and bust through the three-and-D level that he brings to JL Bourg.

While scouts continue to debate the height of Risacher's ceiling, there is a perceived level of certainty tied to his positional size, shooting and defensive tools/quickness. That could sway the Hawks to lean his way without a sure-thing star at the top. Injury problems with Saddiq Bey and AJ Griffin could also help the case for Risacher to Atlanta.

 

2. Washington Wizards: Alex Sarr

2 OF 58

 

COLIN MURTY/AFP via Getty Images

June 7 Mock Draft Spot: No. 2

Team: Perth Wildcats

Position: PF/C

Size: 7'0", 224 lbs

Age/Year: 19

Nationality: French

Pro Comparison: Evan Mobley

Teams and agents believe that if the Atlanta Hawks don't draft Alex Sarr, the Washington Wizards will take him at No. 2. He's expected to work out for the Wizards in the near future.

With Washington expected to be patient during its rebuild, it should be fitting suitors for the 19-year-old. Some scouts and executives have questioned his offensive polish for a potential No. 1 overall pick.

The rise and success of defensive bigs with perimeter skill sets—Evan Mobley, Jaren Jackson Jr., Chet Holmgren, Victor Wembanyama—adds to the allure of Sarr.

He measured well in Chicago, coming in at just under 7'0" in socks, 224 pounds with a 7'4" wingspan. At that size, the ability to slide his feet, handle in the open floor and shoot off the dribble separates him from other centers.

The Wizards will eventually need to find a point guard, but at No. 2, Sarr's physical talent, evolving skill versatility and defense create visions of upside that could be difficult to resist.

3. Reed Sheppard

4. Matas Buzelis

5. Cody Williams

6. Stephon Castle

7. Donovan Clingan

8. Devin Carter

9. Ron Holland

10. Dalton Knecht

 

 

2024 NBA Mock Draft: Top-5 Shakeup, Plus Full 2-Round Predictions with 2 Weeks to Go | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

Pro Comparison: Harrison Barnes

 

I just threw up

 

[KB21]

Well shit!

Why Dan Hurley stayed at UConn: Texts with LeBron James, Billy Joel concert lead to decision to spurn Lakers - CBSSports.com

Quote

CBS: Outside of your family, who else did you lean on most heavily for either seeking counsel or advice as you went through this process?

 

DH: Seth Greenberg. He's always been a great, great advisor and counsel for me. People that I have really have a lot of respect for. Tom Izzo. I talked to him. He was very helpful. Billy Donovan has always been somebody I talked to a lot. Brad Stevens, Quin Snyder. Quin Snyder is a really smart guy who, I know that they (the Atlanta Hawks) really like Donovan (Clingan), so I was able to kind of talk to them about Donovan, but then also to pick his brain in large part.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Jody23]

Here's the thing.  IF the Hawks feel Clingan is the best selection, okay.  I don't agree, but okay.  The problem is, why would they let that info get out there?  Especially in a year with (allegedly) no clear number one prospect and them wanting to trade down and still get "their guy"?

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Here's the thing.  IF the Hawks feel Clingan is the best selection, okay.  I don't agree, but okay.  The problem is, why would they let that info get out there?  Especially in a year with (allegedly) no clear number one prospect and them wanting to trade down and still get "their guy"?

Unless that's the schmoke......

Mind blown yet? 

[Jody23]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Unless that's the schmoke......

Mind blown yet? 

I mean, I want to believe the Hawks can be that savvy, but......

[AHF]

40 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I mean, I want to believe the Hawks can be that savvy, but......

Our GM is the guy who said DJM doesn’t work with Trae knowing he would be trading one of them this offseason.  Do we really think Atlanta is even a little savvy about using the media to drive leverage?

[Afro]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

Our GM is the guy who said DJM doesn’t work with Trae knowing he would be trading one of them this offseason.  Do we really think Atlanta is even a little savvy about using the media to drive leverage?

You know you and I are on the same page on this. 

But good lord I hope not lol. This is almost worse than that. 

Consider soths report of trading down than back to 3. I'm sure the rockets won't bend us over the barrel knowing we HAVE to get Clingan.... 

I'm praying they have a least a shred of brain power.