Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[givemesome1ce1]

 

it’s gonna be Clingan….there is way too much smoke right now. I know it’s 13 days before the draft but reading the rumors ahead of the draft…Clingan keeps rising up on boards and It doesn’t make sense for hawks to draft Sarr if he wants to be a PF. We may not even be able to trade down for Clingan because so many teams want him. Clingan may just be the guy at 1

[hawkman]

4 hours ago, terrell said:

Back in Jan, Sarr was the clear #1... What changed??

 

What changed??? The Hawks unexpectedly got the #1 pick. If any other team was number one, you wouldn't hear half the smoke we have since the Lottery. 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

 

it’s gonna be Clingan….there is way too much smoke right now. I know it’s 13 days before the draft but reading the rumors ahead of the draft…Clingan keeps rising up on boards and It doesn’t make sense for hawks to draft Sarr if he wants to be a PF. We may not even be able to trade down for Clingan because so many teams want him. Clingan may just be the guy at 1

[deester11]

1 hour ago, hawkman said:

What changed??? The Hawks unexpectedly got the #1 pick. If any other team was number one, you wouldn't hear half the smoke we have since the Lottery. 

The Hawks.  That changes everything.  Make of that what you will.  

Edited June 14 by deester11

[terrell]

5 hours ago, Bonkers said:

Pro Comparison: Harrison Barnes

 

I just threw up

 

Id seriously take Buzelis,Salaun,Knect or even Holland over this dude...

[KB21]

Clingan has a workout with Houston lined up.  

[bleachkit]

Clingan just feels like a guy who would go 8 to 12 is most drafts, but maybe this is a draft where you want a high floor. 

[KB21]

34 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Clingan just feels like a guy who would go 8 to 12 is most drafts, but maybe this is a draft where you want a high floor. 

I do agree with this, but I also feel like some Hawks fans on the twitterverse have lost their ever-loving mind.  

 

[Alex]

This class reminds me of the 2013 draft. It was a pretty big mystery as to who was going to be number 1. That was the first hint that it was a weak class. That’s the Anthony Bennett draft I am talking about. Oladipo went number 2 and he’s been good, but the class was saved by Giannis and later on, Gobert. 

[Final_quest]

18 hours ago, AHF said:

The message seems to be that he has a lot of tools that are directly translatable to NBA defense and has shown skills that could make him really valuable on offense but has a ways to go to get there on the offensive end.  I'm ok with that. 

I'm OK with that too.  That's a fair evaluation.  

I got less excited about Sarr came from looking at him critically, and most people who believe he is the clear pick are not having honest conversations about the holes in his game.  They are in love with a guy, but not willing to acknowledge his flaws?  That makes me ask if people are buying a fantasy not a reality.  

He could develop a reliable shot, but a lot of analysts aren't buying that.  The higher potential seems to be something like John Collins when he was making 38% on his spot up 3's.  He's nowhere close to that level at the moment and so Sarr is a shooter hasn't really been demonstrated.  Just know that most analysts don't see him as a shooter or project him as a shooter.  

He plays more like a wing, and it's difficult to project him as a 5.  At the same time he doesn't fully play like a wing either.  So where is he gonna land?  Not a true inside player, or a true perimeter player at the moment.  

He has almost no reps in the PnR.  At a minimum his PNR game needs to be developed from scratch, or you just leave him as a dunker and spot up shooter.  

We need paint defense and rebounding.  Sarr does a lot on defense, but he is a long way from being a guy who locks down the paint.  

Sarr/OO/Jalen trio.  I initially thought this could be a strong front court and potentially play them all together, but now I can't even convince myself that OO/Sarr works as a center rotation.  

 

[marco102]

19 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I'm OK with that too.  That's a fair evaluation.  

I got less excited about Sarr came from looking at him critically, and most people who believe he is the clear pick are not having honest conversations about the holes in his game.  They are in love with a guy, but not willing to acknowledge his flaws?  That makes me ask if people are buying a fantasy not a reality.  

He could develop a reliable shot, but a lot of analysts aren't buying that.  The higher potential seems to be something like John Collins when he was making 38% on his spot up 3's.  He's nowhere close to that level at the moment and so Sarr is a shooter hasn't really been demonstrated.  Just know that most analysts don't see him as a shooter or project him as a shooter.  

He plays more like a wing, and it's difficult to project him as a 5.  At the same time he doesn't fully play like a wing either.  So where is he gonna land?  Not a true inside player, or a true perimeter player at the moment.  

He has almost no reps in the PnR.  At a minimum his PNR game needs to be developed from scratch, or you just leave him as a dunker and spot up shooter.  

We need paint defense and rebounding.  Sarr does a lot on defense, but he is a long way from being a guy who locks down the paint.  

Sarr/OO/Jalen trio.  I initially thought this could be a strong front court and potentially play them all together, but now I can't even convince myself that OO/Sarr works as a center rotation.  

 

You keep saying we are in love with the fantasy of him and focusing on his offense.  The only reason most of us want him is for his defense.  We know he can't defend the five right now, but he certainly will add strength and be able to defend the five in certain matchups.  We know he has flaws offensively, but offense hasn't been our problem.  He'll help raise our defense and with OO he doesn't have to defend the paint immediately. He can be a roaming defender. 

That's how I see the fit.  There is no fantasy about him being the next Wemby, Giannis or whatever.  I see him being our defensive star and Trae being the offensive star. If Sarr adds an offensive game, that's just a bonus. 

Edited June 14 by marco102

[KB21]

Those who are not buying into Sarr's potential will be the ones who are blasting the Hawks in 3 years and wondering why we are getting exposed in the playoffs while Sarr is becoming one of the young stars in the league.  

[deester11]

33 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I'm OK with that too.  That's a fair evaluation.  

I got less excited about Sarr came from looking at him critically, and most people who believe he is the clear pick are not having honest conversations about the holes in his game.  They are in love with a guy, but not willing to acknowledge his flaws?  That makes me ask if people are buying a fantasy not a reality.  

He could develop a reliable shot, but a lot of analysts aren't buying that.  The higher potential seems to be something like John Collins when he was making 38% on his spot up 3's.  He's nowhere close to that level at the moment and so Sarr is a shooter hasn't really been demonstrated.  Just know that most analysts don't see him as a shooter or project him as a shooter.  

He plays more like a wing, and it's difficult to project him as a 5.  At the same time he doesn't fully play like a wing either.  So where is he gonna land?  Not a true inside player, or a true perimeter player at the moment.  

He has almost no reps in the PnR.  At a minimum his PNR game needs to be developed from scratch, or you just leave him as a dunker and spot up shooter.  

We need paint defense and rebounding.  Sarr does a lot on defense, but he is a long way from being a guy who locks down the paint.  

Sarr/OO/Jalen trio.  I initially thought this could be a strong front court and potentially play them all together, but now I can't even convince myself that OO/Sarr works as a center rotation.  

 

As a Sarr advocate, I cannot endorse your post although you make ok points.  Most Sarr supporters understand his flaws quite well.  But I don't know what to say to those who don't think a 19 year old kid with his abilities cannot improve.  People are dreaming on his potential which has been noted by the majority of scouts, pundits, experts, armchair GM's and your average Joe Smoe. 

I can type that and know he COULD not reach his potential.  But what happens IF he does? And we've selected a better offensive Clint Capela? Or Harrison Barnes? Freaking yuck! And yuck a Damn ginn. I agree..the Hawks need paint defense, but have you watched the Hawks on the perimeter? Utterly stank. Utterly half ass.  Sarr can defend that.  Add to that the fact that if he gains strength, he will be sufficient in the paint.  

Offensively...you can argue many points.  But he flashes what you want.  The developmental staff if they are what we think, can bring the components that Sarr supporters dream about, together.
 

To me, classic overthinking by the organization and while I am ok with Clingan, this has the feel of stench. Billy Knight made it known he was taking "that dude.". If you're taking Clingan make the draft work for you.  Gain assets if you can. Dance the dance. Otherwise take Sarr and get on with the other roster construction which is more critical anyway.
 

Edited June 14 by deester11

[KB21]

One thing I feel like many aren't giving enough attention to is building out the rest of the defense to overcome the lack of defensive versatility Clingan has.  Sure, he's a great rim protector and will help immediately close down the paint.  He's not going to be able to switch at the NBA level.  He's not going to be able to guard in space.  You may get away with hedging him from time to time, but it isn't something you will want to play a lot.  He's going to be predominately a drop big.  From a defensive standpoint, you have to have POA defenders around him that can play over screens and force perimeter players off the three-point shot.  Offensively, you will have to put floor spacers around him.  The fit with Trae is there, but the fit with Jalen isn't as tight.  Some hope that his ability to pass the ball will make him a player in the short roll that can open up space for Jalen on drives, but if he never actually becomes a threat to shoot the ball, that's going to be negated.  

[Final_quest]

11 minutes ago, deester11 said:

As a Sarr advocate, I cannot endorse your post although you make ok points.  Most Sarr supporters understand his flaws quite well.  But I don't know what to say to those who don't think a 19 year old kid with his abilities cannot improve.  

Ha, OK.  Will work harder for an endorsement.  I don't see how pointing out holes in his game somehow equates to believing he can't improve.  All of these guys can improve.  

Take Risacher for example.  He can't dribble.  So, it's difficult to project him as an on ball offensive creator.  Could he improve?  Yes, but he's not likely to develop into something like Joe Johnson as an iso player.

Sarr has virtually nothing on offense as a skill.  People talk about his outside shooting.  He can improve, yes, but him becoming a reliable shooter is a big question and may never happen.  Projecting him as a shooter is a huge reach.  Saying he can eventually become an average spot up shooter is more realistic. 

Sarr can improve.  He's got a lot of things to improve on, though.  That's why many people don't regard him as a potential star.

 

[Final_quest]

42 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You keep saying we are in love with the fantasy of him and focusing on his offense.  The only reason most of us want him is for his defense.  We know he can't defend the five right now, but he certainly will add strength and be able to defend the five in certain matchups.  We know he has flaws offensively, but offense hasn't been our problem.  He'll help raise our defense and with OO he doesn't have to defend the paint immediately. He can be a roaming defender. 

That's how I see the fit.  There is no fantasy about him being the next Wemby, Giannis or whatever.  I see him being our defensive star and Trae being the offensive star. If Sarr adds an offensive game, that's just a bonus. 

His defense has flaws, too.  While he can cover a lot of court and switch, I've heard a lot of analysts question if he can ever defend as a full time 5.  It's hard to raise the defense if you weaken your center rotation.  Sarr improves the defense in some ways, but also weakens it in other ways.  Get rid of Capela and then you have to replace our best statistical best defender.  Is that Sarr?  If not, we take a step back even on defense.  
 

[AHF]

In terms of Sarr’s jump shot, I like the odds of that blooming 100x better than Clingan (can’t shoot free throws why would I expect him to shoot jumpers).  I think today he shoots about as well as Draymond Green which isn’t very good but is enough to get the defense put a body in your viscunity.

[deester11]

21 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Ha, OK.  Will work harder for an endorsement.  I don't see how pointing out holes in his game somehow equates to believing he can't improve.  All of these guys can improve.  

Take Risacher for example.  He can't dribble.  So, it's difficult to project him as an on ball offensive creator.  Could he improve?  Yes, but he's not likely to develop into something like Joe Johnson as an iso player.

Sarr has virtually nothing on offense as a skill.  People talk about his outside shooting.  He can improve, yes, but him becoming a reliable shooter is a big question and may never happen.  Projecting him as a shooter is a huge reach.  Saying he can eventually become an average spot up shooter is more realistic. 

Sarr can improve.  He's got a lot of things to improve on, though.  That's why many people don't regard him as a potential star.

 

At least you'll work harder.  That's already a win. . Watch film of Sarr and tell me he has "virtually nothing" on offense. That's not true at all.  People see what they want though.  Kids got a good foundation to work with. 

[marco102]

21 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

His defense has flaws, too.  While he can cover a lot of court and switch, I've heard a lot of analysts question if he can ever defend as a full time 5.  It's hard to raise the defense if you weaken your center rotation.  Sarr improves the defense in some ways, but also weakens it in other ways.  Get rid of Capela and then you have to replace our best statistical best defender.  Is that Sarr?  If not, we take a step back even on defense.  
 

Look. I'm not here to convince you to like Sarr or whatever. You can not like him, but every time we say something reasonable you bring up something else about him. We know he has flaws.  Like what do you want us to say to you?  

If you don't want him, that's fine.  Just don't act like those of us that do are being unreasonable. 

OO is still on the roster so is Capela.  No rookie we select is going to be starting. If they are, we have failed this off season. 

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Look. I'm not here to convince you to like Sarr or whatever. You can not like him, but every time we say something reasonable you bring up something else about him. We know he has flaws.  Like what do you want us to say to you?  

If you don't want him, that's fine.  Just don't act like those of us that do are being unreasonable. 

OO is still on the roster so is Capela.  No rookie we select is going to be starting. If they are, we have failed this off season. 

As I have said before, whatever is a perceived flaw from Sarr is fixable.  He has the tools to be a better shooter.  The indicators are there.  The skill level is there.

Donovan Clingan is going to have a hard time becoming mobile enough to be versatile on defense.