Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

That's not why you post his cons.  You don't want Sarr, just say it..lol. We get it. He's raw and that's not for everyone.  It's fine to like other prospects more.

My draft philosophy is swing for upside. His defense sets a pretty decent floor for me and if he hits his offensive best outcome, you have a two way star.  Those chances may be slim, but I'd take the risk. 

When have I ever refrained from expressing my actual thoughts?  

I want to hear someone enthusiastic about Sarr respond to a critique of him as a prospect.  Something more than, “he can improve.” or “he has a lot of upside”.  Or “Now do Clingan.”  Why is a critique of prospect interpreted as dislike?  

I like Sarr, but I think if people can’t respond to a critique of his game with any depth I question how much they understand who he is as a prospect.  

He isn’t a shooter, he is soft, bad hands, isn’t effective in the PnR, isn’t a center but also not a wing.  It’s a lot to overlook if you want to justify taking Sarr over every other option we have available.  Is he so good we should not consider any trades or other prospects?  I like him, but not to the point where I’m not exploring other options.

[marco102]

41 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

When have I ever refrained from expressing my actual thoughts?  

I want to hear someone enthusiastic about Sarr respond to a critique of him as a prospect.  Something more than, “he can improve.” or “he has a lot of upside”.  Or “Now do Clingan.”  Why is a critique of prospect interpreted as dislike?  

I like Sarr, but I think if people can’t respond to a critique of his game with any depth I question how much they understand who he is as a prospect.  

He isn’t a shooter, he is soft, bad hands, isn’t effective in the PnR, isn’t a center but also not a wing.  It’s a lot to overlook if you want to justify taking Sarr over every other option we have available.  Is he so good we should not consider any trades or other prospects?  I like him, but not to the point where I’m not exploring other options.

When we respond with something with more substance you counter with more negatives.  Again, it's okay not to like him and you aren't going to change our minds on him.  We understand his full draft profile pros and cons you aren't providing new information to me at least. 

We aren't going to change yours either.  That's fine. 

My entire point is I don't see taking Rischar and Clingan at number 1.  If you want to take them, trade down and get something in return to draft those other prospects.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder this draft. 

I'd be pretty upset if they draft anybody but Sarr number because I don't see the potential for them being two way stars. 

Edited June 18 by marco102

[givemesome1ce1]

 

first mock draft I’m aware of that has Clingan at 1…could be a giant smoke screen or another wave of momentum for Clingan 

[JayBirdHawk]

[deester11]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

I like Sarr, but I think if people can’t respond to a critique of his game with any depth I question how much they understand who he is as a prospect.  

Funny. I've acknowledged as have many Sarr supporters have acknowledged all the shortcomings you keep putting out there. I've yet to see your in depth critique of Clingan. He does have flaws or is your counter always "what about?" I've sensibly come around on Clingan at any draft spot except 1. Or 2 maybe. 

If this team has not...or haven't properly planned to rid themselves of Capela, whatever pg they aren't keeping, addressed OO starting or not, Clingan doesn't move the needle.  Nor would Sarr, but I'm betting on year 2/3 and beyond.  FLAWED as he is.  The last swing for an athletic,tooled up player was JJ.  Missed on Cam, hit so far with JJ. The Hawk's are always bunting. So no..I'm not off the Sarr train even as I acknowledge his shortcomings.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Funny. I've acknowledged as have many Sarr supporters have acknowledged all the shortcomings you keep putting out there. I've yet to see your in depth critique of Clingan. He does have flaws or is your counter always "what about?" I've sensibly come around on Clingan at any draft spot except 1. Or 2 maybe. 

If this team has not...or haven't properly planned to rid themselves of Capela, whatever pg they aren't keeping, addressed OO starting or not, Clingan doesn't move the needle.  Nor would Sarr, but I'm betting on year 2/3 and beyond.  FLAWED as he is.  The last swing for an athletic,tooled up player was JJ.  Missed on Cam, hit so far with JJ. The Hawk's are always bunting. So no..I'm not off the Sarr train even as I acknowledge his shortcomings.

Like the only reason I'd be upset, is if they don't get more useful assets in a trade down to get these other prospects.  If they want the others besides Sarr, fine, but make sure you are getting compensated more than fairly for it. 

Edited June 18 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

Do you believe him?

 

[nathan2331]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Do you believe him?

 

Absolutely not. Ressler has shown he's meddled in team decisions before and he'll override the GM again if he thinks it's the right thing to do. Until proven otherwise, we don't have an ownership that will allow the front office to 100% control the roster.

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Like the only reason I'd be upset, is if they don't get more useful assets in a trade down to get these other prospects.  If they want the others besides Sarr, fine, but make sure you are getting compensated more than fairly for it. 

The thing is, if they move down, unless it's only 1 or 2 spots, they probably don't get Clingan.  

[KB21]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

Absolutely not. Ressler has shown he's meddled in team decisions before and he'll override the GM again if he thinks it's the right thing to do. Until proven otherwise, we don't have an ownership that will allow the front office to 100% control the roster.

If we want to be factual about this, that's the case with every team with the possible exception of the Spurs.  Even then, Peter Holt has been to France to watch Zaccharie Risacher play.  

[nathan2331]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If we want to be factual about this, that's the case with every team with the possible exception of the Spurs.  Even then, Peter Holt has been to France to watch Zaccharie Risacher play.  

You're correct. But I can't take our ownership seriously when they keep making cost cutting moves in favor of making moves to improve the quality of the roster. That isn't to say we've lost players who'd otherwise be making us a contender, but it's frustrating seeing the team play worse even though we've been drafting decently enough.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

1. True or false: Donovan Clingan is worth the No. 1 pick

Donovan Clingan

UCONN • C • #32

7-2, 280 lbs

PPG13

RPG7.4

BPG2.5

Is a "sure thing" like Donovan Clingan a smarter choice in a bad draft?

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Finkelstein: In this draft? True. Clingan is certainly worth exploring and the Hawks are doing just that. The two-time national champ has been in to Atlanta and supposedly had a good workout, which has led to speculation that Atlanta could explore trading down to take him, and picking up another asset in the process. That was essentially Boston's move back in 2017 when everyone thought Fultz should go one, but they liked Tatum. Indiana did something similar last year when they wanted Jarace Walker and moved back a spot to take him, again picking up another asset in the process. 

Boone: True. If I'm Atlanta I'm not 100% sure he'd be my pick, to be clear. In fact, I view his teammate Stephon Castle as a higher upside swing worthy of being the top pick ahead of Clingan. But the floor and ceiling case for Clingan is obvious: he's an anchor on the back end of your defense who can change the complexion of how your team defends and plays. Worst-case he's a starting center. Best-case he might be some iteration of Rudy Gobert. With some questions about other top prospects and how their games might fit in the NBA, Clingan presents safety and upside.

Salerno: False. While Clingan is in contention to be the top selection alongside Alex Sarr and Zaccharie Risacher, I don't think he's worth it. Clingan doesn't have the upside of Sarr. The Hawks would be foolish to pass on him. Could Clingan be the No. 1 pick when it's all said and done? Maybe. He's closer to the mid-lottery on my big board because of his lack of versatility. He's a defensive-first big, which is fine if you want to take him in the middle of the lottery (I had him No. 7 in my first mock draft this cycle) but he's not worthy of the top pick.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2024-nba-draft-true-or-false-donovan-clingan-worthy-of-no-1-overall-bronny-james-goes-to-lakers-at-no-17/

 

 

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, deester11 said:

Funny. I've acknowledged as have many Sarr supporters have acknowledged all the shortcomings you keep putting out there. I've yet to see your in depth critique of Clingan. He does have flaws or is your counter always "what about?" I've sensibly come around on Clingan at any draft spot except 1. Or 2 maybe. 

If this team has not...or haven't properly planned to rid themselves of Capela, whatever pg they aren't keeping, addressed OO starting or not, Clingan doesn't move the needle.  Nor would Sarr, but I'm betting on year 2/3 and beyond.  FLAWED as he is.  The last swing for an athletic,tooled up player was JJ.  Missed on Cam, hit so far with JJ. The Hawk's are always bunting. So no..I'm not off the Sarr train even as I acknowledge his shortcomings.

Show me your most substantive response, @marco102 too.  Maybe there has been something I haven’t seen.  What have you even said about him not having a position for example?  He’s likely to not be a center or a wing.  So if he turns into a soft PF who never develops a reliable shot, then he can’t replace Jalen, play center, or the three.  Waste of a pick at his lowest outcome.  He’d be a defensive specialist off the bench who can dunk in transition.

Also, why do I need to bring Clingan into a conversation about Sarr?  I’m asking people about Sarr’s game.  There’s plenty of posts about what people don’t like about Clingan.  

[marco102]

17 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Show me your most substantive response, @marco102 too.  Maybe there has been something I haven’t seen.  What have you even said about him not having a position for example?  He’s likely to not be a center or a wing.  So if he turns into a soft PF who never develops a reliable shot, then he can’t replace Jalen, play center, or the three.  Waste of a pick at his lowest outcome.  He’d be a defensive specialist off the bench who can dunk in transition.

Also, why do I need to bring Clingan into a conversation about Sarr?  I’m asking people about Sarr’s game.  There’s plenty of posts about what people don’t like about Clingan.  

No for what? You've made up your mind.  What are we even debating about? 

You just act like we are crazy and uninformed for liking him. I'm simply saying we know all of his weaknesses and strengths and like him and think he should be the pick. 

It's as simple as that. It's like you want us to convince you to like him. If you don't like him you don't like him. 

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No for what? You've made up your mind.  What are we even debating about? 

You just act like we are crazy and uninformed for liking him. I'm simply saying we know all of his weaknesses and strengths and like him and think he should be the pick. 

It's as simple as that. It's like you want us to convince you to like him. If you don't like him you don't like him. 

I just want to talk about his game.  You guys are making it about something else.  That’s why I keep asking for actual content.  If you feel like I’m wrong about his flaws, why do my comments turn into questioning my motives?  Talk about Sarr, not me.
I’m really trying to make the analysis the focus.  

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I just want to talk about his game.  You guys are making it about something else.  That’s why I keep asking for actual content.  If you feel like I’m wrong about his flaws, why do my comments turn into questioning my motives?  Talk about Sarr, not me.
I’m really trying to make the analysis the focus.  

Because I have discussed it with you and you bring up more negatives.  I'm not saying anything about you. I'm talking about you wanting me to convince you to like him. I'm not.  Again, if you don't like him you don't like him. 

Like I'm not highest on Edey, Clinghan, or Rrischar (sp), but I can see how someone could like them.

If you don't see anyway someone could like Sarr, then what's to discuss? 

Edited June 18 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, Final_quest said:

He isn’t a shooter, he is soft, bad hands, isn’t effective in the PnR, isn’t a center but also not a wing. 

Sounds like Hawks DNA to me

[KB21]

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/duncd-on-basketball-nba-podcast/id986901174?i=1000659355215
 

You can forward through the podcast and get to their breakdown on Sarr.  It’s one of the better ones I’ve heard.  While they aren’t super high on him as in they don’t see a superstar, they do highlight his modern NBA skills as the aspect that has him a tier above Clingan and Risacher.  

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Because I have discussed it with you and you bring up more negatives.  I'm not saying anything about you. I'm talking about you wanting me to convince you to like him. I'm not.  Again, if you don't like him you don't like him. 

Like I'm not highest on Edey, Clinghan, or Rrischar (sp), but I can see how someone could like them.

If you don't see anyway someone could like Sarr, then what's to discuss? 

I’ve said a lot things I liked about Sarr, and that I still see him as the top prospect.  

Not sure why that means I can’t also talk about what makes him a weak #1 overall pick.  We just don’t have great options, which is why we should look at trading out.