Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[deester11]

9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

"Potential" is entirely too focused on length and athleticism, and too dismissive of skill and understanding of the game. 

That's too broad of a brush.  Potential means different things to different evaluators.  For instance..potential to bring up a"skill" is a real thing. A player can "potentially" have a better understanding of the game. It is in no way a bad thing to discuss potential.  It is why there are "floors" and "ceilings" with regards to prospects. It can go either way every single time.

[marco102]

13 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I mean there's plenty of tape of  him hitting mid range shots and a really good clip, but go on.

 

[kg01]

39 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

The Cam love was so bizarre.  People were just as adamant about Cam's potential as they are with Sarr.

It was wish-hoping just because he was a Hawk.  We're far enough away from it to call it what it was.

It's similar with Sarr, if we're being honest.

I see warts on all these possible picks.  But Edey is the only one I see bizarre things from fans.  Like, I get the selling points.  But the salesmen are choosing to gloss over things there and it comes off as really strange.  At this point, I push back just to see how well they dance around them.

It's like dangling my $1 out at Mag City but they're doing an Irish jig instead of the ..uh, customary, movements.... 

[kg01]

39 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

The Cam love was so bizarre.  People were just as adamant about Cam's potential as they are with Sarr.

It was wish-hoping just because he was a Hawk.  We're far enough away from it to call it what it was.

It's similar with Sarr, if we're being honest.

I see warts on all these possible picks.  But Edey is the only one I see bizarre things from fans.  Like, I get the selling points.  But the salesmen are choosing to gloss over things there and it comes off as really strange.  At this point, I push back just to see how well they dance around them.

It's like dangling my $1 out at Mag City but they're doing an Irish jig instead of the ..uh, customary, movements.... 

[warcore]

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

WTF is he going to do when Stephen Adams and Joel Embiid start throwing him around?

Use his quickness. Bring them away from the basket to open up the lane for anyone else to attack. Clingan wouldn't do that.... and he's not strong enough to dominate either of those. 

I get the argument for Clingan if you're only looking at this season. However a new season comes every year and we'd rather have the one that might be a unicorn later down the line. 

As far as whose minutes he's going to take -- you previously framed it as between CC, JJ and OO.... well I'd say he's going to be taking all of Hunter and Beys minutes personally. At this stage he's more of a 4 and he would give us much more than Dre or Bey did on defense. 

[kg01]

Duplicate 

Edited June 20 by kg01

[thecampster]

Sarr shot chart Perth

 

https://x.com/MavsDraft/status/1785014436266381693?t=Q28j8FdxhRP-q3wLNmnCpQ&s=19

[thecampster]

116 shots at the rim. 74/116

34 more shots inside the 3 point line. 17/34 

57 - 3 point attempts. 16/57

[AHF]

Cam wasn’t just wishing by Hawks fans.  He was at or near the top of his class coming out of HS.  He was hurt at Duke and had a terrible shooting year but was regarded as a key player by Coach K all season.  Despite the disappointing year, he had the tools and pedigree to make lots of draft experts high on his upside.  It is why his peers picked him over Zion and others to have the best career.  His poor college showing let him slide in the draft well below where he was out of HS and we snagged him.

JJ was also at or near the top of his class in high school.  He got hurt which bumped him back.  When he played at Duke, he got benched and his minutes drastically cut and then withdrew.  Despite the disappointing year, he had the tools and pedigree to make lots of draft experts high on his upside.  His poor college showing let him slide in the draft way below where he was out of HS and we snagged him.

In both cases, we got a guy who might have been a top 3 pick coming out of HS and looked to work on them to develop and hopefully flash the high ceilings scout’s projected for them.  Cam turned out to be selfish and ego driven and never developed the way we wanted but has become a plus defender capable of having some big nights.  JJ toiled in the G-League working on his game and then showed out last season when he finally got a chance for regular minutes.  I think most of us think he has star potential at this point and view him as a cornerstone.

Uncertainty with draft picks is real.  You don’t get JJ with a double digit pick if people know what he will become.  Sometimes these high potential guys work out.  Sometimes they don’t.

[thecampster]

10 minutes ago, warcore said:

Use his quickness. Bring them away from the basket to open up the lane for anyone else to attack. Clingan wouldn't do that.... and he's not strong enough to dominate either of those. 

Defense. The argument was how does he handle them in the post on defense. Embiid will score on him at will. Go check the video I posted of him all possessions, getting abused in the post by smaller players. He shuns contact.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Cam turned out to be selfish and ego driven and never developed the way we wanted but has become a plus defender capable of having some big nights.  JJ toiled in the G-League working on his game and then showed out last season when he finally got a chance for regular minutes.

Sometimes it's what is between the ears, work ethic and who is advising them vs their skills.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Sometimes it's what is between the ears, work ethic and who is advising them vs their skills.

exactly.  predicting Cam wouldn't really improve much as a pro wasn't a likely outcome

[thecampster]

With Sarr, I think of the cautionary tale of Andre Drummond. His draft year, he tested off the charts athletically. He was 255 and could run like a deer. 5 years later he definitely +300 though listed 280. Couldn't leap anymore and never developed a good outside game. He's a good piece today, great rebounder but reached for the extra chicken leg too much to reach his potential.  For Sarr, that weight is mandatory if he's going to play the 5 and the outside shot mandatory to play the 4.  There's some real unknowns there.

[warcore]

13 minutes ago, thecampster said:

34 more shots inside the 3 point line. 17/34 

that is outstanding for a 7'. But it's hidden in a post where you're trying to neg him??? 

Wouldn't you agree 50% middy from a 7 footer is good? 

[macdaddy]

The thing about this pick is that it's not up to us.  It's up to people who have far more knowledge and information than we do.   Mid teens picks are hard for everyone but the #1 shouldn't be that hard for an NBA team to choose a good one.  This is a big litmus test for Landry.  Not saying he has to pick the absolute best career player but he can't blow the pick.  It has to be a really solid NBA starter. 

 

[warcore]

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Defense. The argument was how does he handle them in the post on defense.

I guess you chose to just disregard my entire bit about him taking Dre's and Bey's minutes. 

When have we seen Dre or Bey assigned to guard Embiid or Adams? 

I'm happy to respond to your posts, but not if you're picking and choosing what to ignore. 

And just in case it's no clear, the above means CC and OO would still be guarding those players. (If they're still here). 

[deester11]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The thing about this pick is that it's not up to us.  It's up to people who have far more knowledge and information than we do.   Mid teens picks are hard for everyone but the #1 shouldn't be that hard for an NBA team to choose a good one.  This is a big litmus test for Landry.  Not saying he has to pick the absolute best career player but he can't blow the pick.  It has to be a really solid NBA starter. 

 

If the pick is Risacher..we are in fact blowing this pick.

[thecampster]

11 minutes ago, warcore said:

that is outstanding for a 7'. But it's hidden in a post where you're trying to neg him??? 

Wouldn't you agree 50% middy from a 7 footer is good? 

I actually didn't neg in that post. I just showed the shot chart. Did the math for everyone. I have agendas but those are usually overt/stated. There was mention he could shoot. So I pulled the shot chart. Your mileage my vary.

[thecampster]

12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

  It's up to people who have far more knowledge and information than we do.  

 

LOL - maybe you

[kg01]

19 minutes ago, thecampster said:

With Sarr, I think of the cautionary tale of Andre Drummond. His draft year, he tested off the charts athletically. He was 255 and could run like a deer. 5 years later he definitely +300 though listed 280. Couldn't leap anymore and never developed a good outside game. He's a good piece today, great rebounder but reached for the extra chicken leg too much to reach his potential.  For Sarr, that weight is mandatory if he's going to play the 5 and the outside shot mandatory to play the 4.  There's some real unknowns there.

I just want you to turn your high-powered gaze to highlight the warts on all these guys, not just Sarr.

If you take a few passing glances, I think you'll find this draft looks like a witches convention.