Donovan Clingan or Alexander Sarr: Battle of 1st overall pick

[AtLaS]

Clearly I was team Sarr and have no problem admitting if I was wrong, but it is just summer league as we all know.  

I'm 100% team ZR at this point and really like his skillset.

Clingan is going to be a beast defensively no doubt, but I didn't want another lane clogging C who can't shoot.  We need to modernize this squad and the way we will get the most efficient Trae (and JJ and others) is by unclogging the lane.  Look at John Collins stats when he had a floor spacer at C. 

Clingan will be great defensively in the regular season leading a good defense but as we've seen with Rudy will struggle with certain matchups in the playoffs, IMO.  I just don't see what makes him different than Rudy.  

[macdaddy]

When players we don't like do bad in summer league OR players we like do good in summer league we say 'see i told ya'

When players we don't like do good in summer league OR players we like do bad in summer league we say 'it's just summer league'

[TheTruth]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I remember a lot of posters like this saying Sarr was all world. Call me out for saying Sarr is one of the worst offensive prospects I've ever evaluated. He's offensively worse than Bronny James and Bronny is years away from being a pro.

Everybody knew his offense was a work in progress...and it may yet never top out better than mediocre, but his length and defense are sorely needed on this team. That hasn't changed.

I've since come around on Risacher, and I truly hope he can be a Pippen-like stud who plays strong defense while providing good scoring. He doesn't have to be a 25+ PPG player - so few are - but we need him to be a stud if this team is going to do anything.

That said, we still need a better starting Center than Capela and OO. 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

'it's just summer league'

... and this is the correct analysis.

Honestly, I'm not real sure why summer league exists in terms of any practically important outcome. Anything you achieve could just as easily be done with an extra "orientation" week or two for newbies and your TC signees in advance of official training camp.

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Spud, you lost it!  Did you ever find it and get it back?

 

A work in progress Gramps! As the Spud turns.  

[BangHolman]

It's just SL, but hate watching Sarr is fun.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It is incredible going 0-15, but I have four little words: "Still only Summer League"

Yeah, that's tough.  Kg05 didn't go 0-15 at the local play place and his shots couldn't even reach the hoop.

Yeah, I said what I said.

But, as you said, it's just SL.  We all know Sarr's reboarding needed work.  For all we know, Zard coaches might've told him go clank everything to work on his box outs.

All of us watched him thinking he's building an amphitheater with all them bricks.

But really .... he was building habits.

The more you know .......... 

[txsting]

7 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Spud, you lost it!  Did you ever find it and get it back?

 

Oh wow, when Gray is dropping receipts you better just eat your shame Spud.  I have a few juicy receipts out there waiting to be cashed but I fly under the radar.

[Spud2nique]

I feel dirty here. Just watching Sarr and Bronny eat dirt. 

Can Bronny get on the Lakers coaching staff via Lebron if he can’t make it? 

[Atlantaholic]

1 hour ago, TheTruth said:

Everybody knew his offense was a work in progress...and it may yet never top out better than mediocre, but his length and defense are sorely needed on this team. That hasn't changed.

I've since come around on Risacher, and I truly hope he can be a Pippen-like stud who plays strong defense while providing good scoring. He doesn't have to be a 25+ PPG player - so few are - but we need him to be a stud if this team is going to do anything.

That said, we still need a better starting Center than Capela and OO. 

From discussions on this board I wouldn't say "everyone". Some were really confident Sarr was a center and had a "bag". Truth is Sarr is NOT a center, and does not have anything remotely close to resembling a bag, there is absolutely nothing offensively he has that he can go to with any sort of consistency. Summer league or not these are facts, he wasn't tearing up the Australian league, no reson to assume he was gonna tear up the NBA which is several very long tiers above the Australian league. Inside he has zero strength or post ability, so his points will come from the perimeter, like Andrea Bargnani. That is what he is today, will he become much better? Sure, it's possible, he's 19. Truth is just like Risacher Sarr would have been a low teen pick in many drafts. The percieved value gap between him and Eday/Clingan was always crazy and unjustified. 

[Final_quest]

6 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

From discussions on this board I wouldn't say "everyone". Some were really confident Sarr was a center and had a "bag". 

Thanks yes, that's true. 

I don't think this is a "it's just summer league" situation with him.  Outside of that one G League game that got reposted Sarr hasn't had a lot of stellar performances in his entire life.  So, it's not like you have a body of work to point towards in place of a historically bad performance. 

Trae had some bad summer league games, but had just lead the NCAA in points and assists.  What are we trusting in with regards to Sarr?  It's only flashes of potential, but no high level sustained performance at any point in his short life.   

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

When players we don't like do bad in summer league OR players we like do good in summer league we say 'see i told ya'

When players we don't like do good in summer league OR players we like do bad in summer league we say 'it's just summer league'

For me it is all...it's just summer league.  SL doesn't mean much for anyone for me.

 

1 hour ago, sturt said:

... and this is the correct analysis.

Honestly, I'm not real sure why summer league exists in terms of any practically important outcome. Anything you achieve could just as easily be done with an extra "orientation" week or two for newbies and your TC signees in advance of official training camp.

It is a nice entertainment vehicle that gets the NBA in the press and gives fans something to enjoy in the dry days of summer.

[txsting]

I just watched those Sarr highlights, and he is taking good shots.  He is getting to great spots, just missing.  He looks like he gets excellent looks with ease.  I think he's going to be more than ok.

[aali34]

1 minute ago, txsting said:

I just watched those Sarr highlights, and he is taking good shots.  He is getting to great spots, just missing.  He looks like he gets excellent looks with ease.  I think he's going to be more than ok.

I disagree, those are not shots you want an athletic 7 footer to take. He's settling cause his handle isn't crisp so when he attacks the basket the defense gets back in position so the only thing there is the pullup middy. The lack of touch and footwork make it hard for him to wiggle his way around the backpedaling defense if it's not an open drive too.

He also doesn't play with aggression. He doesn't try to bully his way through the defense like Giannis, he's all finesse. He doesn't get easy points cause he doesn't play like a big.

His defense looked fine though.

I really wanted us to draft him, but was turned off when he refused to workout  and showed where his arrogance and ego was. If he had Risacher's attitude, all this could be forgiven easily, but being a project player and thinking that you deserve star status is a recipe for disaster. Cam Reddish should be a lesson to all young players with this mindset.

Still early though.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, aali34 said:

I disagree, those are not shots you want an athletic 7 footer to take. He's settling cause his handle isn't crisp so when he attacks the basket the defense gets back in position so the only thing there is the pullup middy. The lack of touch and footwork make it hard for him to wiggle his way around the backpedaling defense if it's not an open drive too.

He also doesn't play with aggression. He doesn't try to bully his way through the defense like Giannis, he's all finesse. He doesn't get easy points cause he doesn't play like a big.

His defense looked fine though.

I really wanted us to draft him, but was turned off when he refused to workout  and showed where his arrogance and ego was. If he had Risacher's attitude, all this could be forgiven easily, but being a project player and thinking that you deserve star status is a recipe for disaster. Cam Reddish should be a lesson to all young players with this mindset.

Still early though.

The thing was, this was in his Aussie tape. Even @marco102 posted a workout tape from Sarr and he was doing guard shit. I was getting Reddish vibes. 

[aali34]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The thing was, this was in his Aussie tape. Even @marco102 posted a workout tape from Sarr and he was doing guard shit. I was getting Reddish vibes. 

I'm not even mad at the guard shit. It's the refusal to get easy offense that irks me. All pfs should watch John Collins tape on how moving around and being available gets you an easy 15pts a game.

Risacher shot like shit in his last game and still produced cause he was sealing smaller players and moving around. Hard to believe Sarr came up in Europe, he plays like an AAU kid.

[NBASupes]

Just now, aali34 said:

I'm not even mad at the guard shit. It's the refusal to get easy offense that irks me. All pfs should watch John Collins tape on how moving around and being available gets you an easy 15pts a game.

Risacher shot like shit in his last game and still produced cause he was sealing smaller players and moving around. Hard to believe Sarr came up in Europe, he plays like an AAU kid.

What JC does is a skill. Being a movement big isn't about just effort. You gotta understand the game, you gotta have the energy, the stamina, you gotta have a tremendous feel. This is natural to JC but it's not for most players. If you want players like JC. You gotta draft players like JC. This isn't PlayDoh, you can turn everything into your vision for it. 

[aali34]

 

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

What JC does is a skill. Being a movement big isn't about just effort. You gotta understand the game, you gotta have the energy, the stamina, you gotta have a tremendous feel. This is natural to JC but it's not for most players. If you want players like JC. You gotta draft players like JC. This isn't PlayDoh, you can turn everything into your vision for it. 

Doesn't have to be as good as him, just the commitment to it is all I ask. Knowing how to read the flow of the offense and how the defense is reacting. Knowing where to put yourself when you see a certain rotation or coverage. 

And physically recognizing when its time to be crafty with the ball vs knowing you have your defender off balance and zeroing in for contact. 

I haven't seen much of this from him. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, aali34 said:

 

Doesn't have to be as good as him, just the commitment to it is all I ask. Knowing how to read the flow of the offense and how the defense is reacting. Knowing where to put yourself when you see a certain rotation or coverage. 

And physically recognizing when its time to be crafty with the ball vs knowing you have your defender off balance and zeroing in for contact. 

I haven't seen much of this from him. 

It's not about a commitment. That's just not in his wheel house. He's not a high motor, movement guy. That's just not his portfolio. 

I really think most fans don't understand that it's not just athleticism and skill that's locked in due to your direct attributes. 

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's not about a commitment. That's just not in his wheel house. He's not a high motor, movement guy. That's just not his portfolio. 

I really think most fans don't understand that it's not just athleticism and skill that's locked in due to your direct attributes. 

Yep, which is why I wouldn't say "it's just summer league".  The most concerning thing is not the 15 misses, it's the habits and tendencies he has that will have to be unwound and retrained, if he is even willing.  Like, if you're not a great screener or great at boxing out / rebounding, that's one thing.  But he doesn't seem to want to do any of those things.

With Trae, it was literally just summer league.  Make some shots, miss some, is what it is, but you could see the elite vision and passing and playmaking.  And you had a year in college as evidence he can score.  Feels different with this guy and it's why I wanted Risacher over him in the first place.