A history lesson, Kwame Brown

[kg01]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Sarr might have a higher chance at being a bust for the Hawks than Kwame for Washington 

Lemme guess, you think Sarr will be the next Anthony Bennett. 

[theheroatl]

The fact is the #1 pick hits on a star or at least a above average player like Cade Cunningham much more often than not.

 

The boys crying wolf need to calm the f down 

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Sarr might have a higher chance at being a bust for the Hawks than Kwame for Washington 

Yeah, he might.  Also, he might not

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Lemme guess, you think Sarr will be the next Anthony Bennett. 

He's better than Anthony Bennett for the NBA.

[Final_quest]

There are actual reasons to believe Sarr won't live up to #1 overall pick status.  Most every outlet is saying this draft is weak at the top.  

Sarr doesn't have a clear offensive bag.  He's gonna be a dunker and then everything else is based on potential.  His defense is supposed to be his strength, and it probably is, but he still has not shown he can deal with NBA level traffic in the paint and at the rim or even get a rebound.  

This is the same fan base that fell in love with Cam Reddish for the way he moved, his measurables, and massive upside.  Sarr has a lot to prove, more than most #1 picks.  I don't see a lot of people being honest about where Sarr actually is in the development process.  

[ATLHawks3]

13 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

There are actual reasons to believe Sarr won't live up to #1 overall pick status.  Most every outlet is saying this draft is weak at the top.  

Sarr doesn't have a clear offensive bag.  He's gonna be a dunker and then everything else is based on potential.  His defense is supposed to be his strength, and it probably is, but he still has not shown he can deal with NBA level traffic in the paint and at the rim or even get a rebound.  

This is the same fan base that fell in love with Cam Reddish for the way he moved, his measurables, and massive upside.  Sarr has a lot to prove, more than most #1 picks.  I don't see a lot of people being honest about where Sarr actually is in the development process.

He’s a project right now. I don’t know if Trae will be happy if we take a guy that won’t be able to help us win until year 2 or year 3.

 

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

There are actual reasons to believe Sarr won't live up to #1 overall pick status.  Most every outlet is saying this draft is weak at the top.  

Sarr doesn't have a clear offensive bag.  He's gonna be a dunker and then everything else is based on potential.  His defense is supposed to be his strength, and it probably is, but he still has not shown he can deal with NBA level traffic in the paint and at the rim or even get a rebound.  

This is the same fan base that fell in love with Cam Reddish for the way he moved, his measurables, and massive upside.  Sarr has a lot to prove, more than most #1 picks.  I don't see a lot of people being honest about where Sarr actually is in the development process.  

This is fair.  I've started to wonder could Sarr be best if treated more as a 4 due to the issues you've posited.  That said, he could still be 'the pick' considering all the 'possibles' have warts.

As an aside, the boldest portion is particularly juicy for reasons I won't go into for fear of having a certain poster go whining to the mods on me. 

Just now, ATLHawks3 said:

He’s a project right now. I don’t know if Trae will be happy if we take a guy that won’t be able to help us win until year 2 or year 3.

 

Not sure any of us should be happy with a guy that won't be able to help us win until year 2 or year 3. 

[ATLHawks3]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

This is fair.  I've started to wonder could Sarr be best if treated more as a 4 due to the issues you've posited.  That said, he could still be 'the pick' considering all the 'possibles' have warts.

As an aside, the boldest portion is particularly juicy for reasons I won't go into for fear of having a certain poster go whining to the mods on me. 

Not sure any of us should be happy with a guy that won't be able to help us win until year 2 or year 3. 

That’s why I think Clingan is absolutely in consideration for the Hawks to select. He can help you win day one, and still a lot of potential to be tapped into, albeit lower than what Sarr can become.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

This is the same fan base that fell in love with Cam Reddish for the way he moved, his measurables, and massive upside.

Splits party here. Both Supes and I loved Cam but split here he isn’t a Sarr guy but I am.

 

One of us has to be right, thus … I dunno but thus something..

[kg01]

47 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

That’s why I think Clingan is absolutely in consideration for the Hawks to select. He can help you win day one, and still a lot of potential to be tapped into, albeit lower than what Sarr can become.

Eh, I get the logic.  But I'm not sold on the idea of essentially 'buying low' or 'settling' with the #1 pick.

Shiiii, if all they want is a big that can contribute day-1, go get friggin' Plumlee or whichever of the Knicks bigs they don't keep (Hartenstein or Robinson).

The top pick is where you swing for the fences.  Not where you bunt.

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 thus … I dunno but thus something..

Nice.  Solid 9.7.

The judges would've also accepted a 'furthermore' or a 'whereas'.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Nice.  Solid 9.7.

The judges would've also accepted a 'furthermore' or a 'whereas'.

it’s Am just wakin up here.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

it’s Am just wakin up here.

It must've been AM when my guy @thecampster made this thread too.

Justsayin.  Not your best work, tc.  Hey, if we can't critique each other, how we gonna get better?

Ah, he knows I mean well.  I'm sure he won't put me on blast .... 

 Better put on the kevlar, kg.  I smell shots comin'. 

 Do I smell a heat check, Bawb?  That's a heat 'cheque' in Canadia. 

[ATLHawks3]

32 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Eh, I get the logic.  But I'm not sold on the idea of essentially 'buying low' or 'settling' with the #1 pick.

Shiiii, if all they want is a big that can contribute day-1, go get friggin' Plumlee or whichever of the Knicks bigs they don't keep (Hartenstein or Robinson).

The top pick is where you swing for the fences.  Not where you bunt.

If there was a generational talent in this draft, I would agree. But the more and more I think about this, you’d have to give me a really convincing argument for waiting two to three years for Sarr to hit, considering we owe the next three drafts after 2024 to San Antonio.

[deester11]

2 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

If there was a generational talent in this draft, I would agree. But the more and more I think about this, you’d have to give me a really convincing argument for waiting two to three years for Sarr to hit, considering we owe the next three drafts after 2024 to San Antonio.

And you propose that Clingan is the guy that will be a finished product his first year in the league? There's not one prospect in this draft that doesn't have warts.  I can't stand the thought of Risacher but he's one of the safer picks in the upper tier of this draft.  Not one player in this draft is taking this team to 48 wins. Imho (no offense Supes).  But that is also why it's incumbent on the FO to make the correct decision on whom to trade and the pieces to add.  Clingan at one...hell nah.

As for Sarr, he has much to work on.  But his upside is ridiculous.  That being said, comparing busts...to who 'might' bust is dumb.  It boils down to who you think is the best at that time. Some you hit...some you don't. 

Scared money don't make money. 

[ATLHawks3]

7 minutes ago, deester11 said:

And you propose that Clingan is the guy that will be a finished product his first year in the league? There's not one prospect in this draft that doesn't have warts.  I can't stand the thought of Risacher but he's one of the safer picks in the upper tier of this draft.  Not one player in this draft is taking this team to 48 wins. Imho (no offense Supes).  But that is also why it's incumbent on the FO to make the correct decision on whom to trade and the pieces to add.  Clingan at one...hell nah.

As for Sarr, he has much to work on.  But his upside is ridiculous.  That being said, comparing busts...to who 'might' bust is dumb.  It boils down to who you think is the best at that time. Some you hit...some you don't. 

Scared money don't make money. 

lol, still not convinced.

But in all seriousness, I think Clingan still has potential, even if it’s not as high as what Sarr could become. I think he can really improve as a free throw shooter and also potentially expand his range. I also think he can work on his body and conditioning in order to eventually be a guy that can be relied upon  to play 35+ minutes a night and improve on his lateral quickness.

Also, this stat let’s me know, he’ll be one the most impactful Rookies year one:

Since 2008, the only underclassmen to post >22% DRB%, >10% BLK%, and >14 BPM are Anthony Davis, Chet, and Clingan.

Clingan is in elite company defensively and I think he’ll make this team much better next year.

 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

There are actual reasons to believe [there isn't a player in this draft that will] live up to #1 overall pick status.  Most every outlet is saying this draft is weak at the top.  

[Whatever player that gets selected at #1 overall will have] a lot to prove, more than most #1 picks. 

Your original statements weren't wrong but they were under inclusive.

[ATLHawks3]

Hawks fans, I know we love Sarr, but don’t act like Clingan shouldn’t be in consideration for that pick too.

 

 

[kg01]

52 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

If there was a generational talent in this draft, I would agree. But the more and more I think about this, you’d have to give me a really convincing argument for waiting two to three years for Sarr to hit, considering we owe the next three drafts after 2024 to San Antonio.

Aha, challenge accepted!

No one in this draft was ever meant to push us toward contention.  The Murray trade was always going to be the vehicle by which we improve as a team.  The draft pick is simply gravy.

Therefore ... to wit ... and such as ... no matter who we draft, the plan was always going to be waiting 2-3 seasons for development.

And the defense rests, your honor! 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

It must've been AM when my guy @thecampster made this thread too.

Justsayin.  Not your best work, tc.  Hey, if we can't critique each other, how we gonna get better?

Ah, he knows I mean well.  I'm sure he won't put me on blast .... 

 Better put on the kevlar, kg.  I smell shots comin'. 

 Do I smell a heat check, Bawb?  That's a heat 'cheque' in Canadia. 

I'm not putting anyone on blast with this thread.  That's just not me. But I stand by the concepts outlined. I was aware when I posted it people would push back.  Kwame was near consensus without much proven.  Sarr wasn't even a starter in his limited pro experience. They are similar size with Kwame having a better scouting report coming out.

A recent video podcast linked on here by a pro-Sarr poster admitted that Sarr might spend most of the first year at College Park. The podcast admitted his offense is a question mark, as is his weight and post defense.  When I'm picking #1, I don't like question marks. I want as few as possible. I'll let history and not other posters determine if I'm right or wrong.

I understand some of you are in love with the guy based on highlight videos and potential/word of mouth advertising. I am not and that's okay. That some specific people are coming at me about this post actually strengthens my resolve (some posters have a history of being very wrong, very often and a poor memory of it).

I haven't come out with "what I would do" if it were my off-season but here goes.

1) I do not trade Hunter unless there is a great package.
2) I do not trade Young or Murray unless I'm getting a great package. I'm not sold on them together as a back court, but I'm tired of taking it in the shorts on trades and contracts.

1a+2a) I realize 1 of the 3 is probably gone. If its a part of the deal that brings back Bridges, I'm down. As long as we get good value.

3) I package and ship off Capela any way I know how while he still has value. He's a season or two removed from not being able to keep up. Injuries/the game have taken a toll on his body. Move him to a team in win now mode who doesn't mind someone who cannot space the floor.  A center who can't space the floor has to be good around the basket. Clint is not good offensively anywhere anymore and is clogging the paint most nights with minimal return. His offensive rebound numbers are high because he's always around the rim. Some of those are just falling into his laps when our driving guards miss. Love his effort some nights, hate the package he brings.

4) One interesting scenario I'm 1000% on board with is trading #1 + Capela for 4+8 (+ matching salary of 2 players) and taking Edey+Knecht.  Edey + Knecht at 4 and 8 is a much better salary proposition than Sarr + 1 bench salary, provides 2 players than can contribute right now and specifically, an offensive threat down low. We have become way, way, way too guard dependent. Despite missing a combined 32 games, Trae and DeJounte scored 32.8% of our total points. That is just way too predictable and easy to defend.

5) Using the mid level to sign a vet 3+D wing
6) don't bring back Bey, Forest or W.Matthews.
7) do bring back Lundy (develop), Vit (rotation) while continuing to develop Gueye.

The above sheds a few million in salary while giving us a bigger, more versatile offensive roster.  Again, I realize most won't see it, but I'm not here to be popular.