A history lesson, Kwame Brown

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

You spent a considerable part of the past season then offseason ragging on me for saying Jalen was the future and a better fit than Collins. You had it coming.....and I said not putting anyone on blast "in this thread".  []

Ok that’s fair I pushed first. My bad.  

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The guard reference is to his block numbers in the NBL.

But he did hang 37 on Clingan while getting both Clingan and his backup in foul trouble.

In 2 games vs Indiana this year he hung 33/14 and 26/13 vs Kel'el Ware while holding Ware to 5/6, 11/8.  Ware is expected to go in the top 20 as well.

He didn't get to play Flipkowski or Missi but the results would have been the same. They were for everyone.

See below (please God do not let this become another Edey thread).  In 33 regular season games, mostly vs Big Ten talent, he was the leading scorer in 25 of those 33 games. He was the leading rebounder in 31 of 33.  Sarr was a backup center in the NBL.  The be fair to Edey comment...I am. They aren't even comparable. 

At the combine he beat him in lane agility and the shuttle run, lost to him by .15 seconds in the 3 quarter court sprint.  I'm saying that if he continues to rush putting weight on, Sarr's best trait (agility) might continue to suffer. In order for him to be a 5 for us, we need him to gain at least another 21 lbs (to be 245).  Those are big unknowns when Edey already beats him in many categories.

Okay, off the Edey kick....please don't sub sink this thread.

I'm moreso referring to the likelihood that NBA guards may make it untenable to play him long enough for him to amass such stats.  But, let's agree I'm right so as to avoid derailing things here. 

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

When given the chance, Sarr looked great against the Ignite players who are good chunk of this year's first round.  Holland probably has nightmares about that game.

Yeah.  This is pretty big to me.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

@Spud2nique

@thecampster

@kg01

Let's get back on topic discussing whether Sarr is Kwame 2.0 and away from talking about poster behavior.

Yes sir. 

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

But, let's agree I'm right so as to avoid derailing things here. 

Come here.. {the flicker} if you know you know. 

[thecampster]

52 minutes ago, AHF said:

A few quick comments which aren't meant to ignore Sarr's relatively minor minutes and numbers:

(1) Other players who have turned out to be quite good have had low numbers as teenagers in foreign pro leagues so that doesn't seem like quite the death knell that it might be (heck, our first round pick last year averaged 3 points a game playing against Big Ten bench players at the same age as Sarr was this season)

(2) Comparing Edey at 21 to Sarr at 18 is a bit of apples to oranges as far as long-term prospects for those two go due in large part to age.  This doesn't mean timeline isn't part of the discussion here but it can't be ignored.

(3) When given the chance, Sarr looked great against the Ignite players who are good chunk of this year's first round.  Holland probably has nightmares about that game.

(4) This is not to say Sarr will be the best player from this draft for sure or that he isn't going to need development.  He might be the best player but he won't be on day 1 and will take some time to become the player he is when he is mature. 

and not discounting anything you said above but we are now in a cash crunch. We need to drop some salary because
A) we have no money to sign anyone this year or next as currently constructed

and
 

B) we have very few picks upcoming (potentially 1 between 2025 and 2028) and the pick we do have won't be top 12.  

We cannot afford to blow this pick on shooting our shot.  Young players are how you fill out a roster with talent that can contribute a few minutes, maybe strike gold.  If we do what I stated in this thread, we will still be more than $30 million over the cap with 1 or 2 players to sign (this year and next). That $65 million starting back court has tied a knot in our cap for a while.  We need who we draft to be able to come in and play.  Drafting 1 who isn't NBA ready makes it worse.  Drafting 2 who can contribute gives us a better shot.

Big picture here



Even waiving Bey, W. Matthews, Forrest, Windler, while signing Vit/Lundy (2 way), that gives us 13 players, 1 two way.  The #1 overall pick gives us 14. So we have to sign 1 more. Adding Vit + the pick, we're at about $175.7 million. We'd be over the 1st apron and still need to sign a player but to less than 3 million to avoid the 2nd apron.  This is dire.  Teams in our salary cap situation typically don't get the 1st pick...but here we are.  That $10.8 million is actually an issue.  So drafting Sarr probably means 1 of Bruno, OO, Clint has to go if Sarr is to get minutes. So now its not, is Sarr #1 pick worthy but is he worth a #1 pick and losing Bruno? Is he a bigger WAR to Clint or OO right now?  No, so off to College Park with you.  Its a simple matter of cap mathematics. Our cap restrictions and poor showing last year mean, we need a player who can contribute now, 2 would be great.

[AHF]

38 minutes ago, thecampster said:

and not discounting anything you said above but we are now in a cash crunch. We need to drop some salary because
A) we have no money to sign anyone this year or next as currently constructed

and
 

B) we have very few picks upcoming (potentially 1 between 2025 and 2028) and the pick we do have won't be top 12.  

We cannot afford to blow this pick on shooting our shot.  Young players are how you fill out a roster with talent that can contribute a few minutes, maybe strike gold.  If we do what I stated in this thread, we will still be more than $30 million over the cap with 1 or 2 players to sign (this year and next). That $65 million starting back court has tied a knot in our cap for a while.  We need who we draft to be able to come in and play.  Drafting 1 who isn't NBA ready makes it worse.  Drafting 2 who can contribute gives us a better shot.

Big picture here



Even waiving Bey, W. Matthews, Forrest, Windler, while signing Vit/Lundy (2 way), that gives us 13 players, 1 two way.  The #1 overall pick gives us 14. So we have to sign 1 more. Adding Vit + the pick, we're at about $175.7 million. We'd be over the 1st apron and still need to sign a player but to less than 3 million to avoid the 2nd apron.  This is dire.  Teams in our salary cap situation typically don't get the 1st pick...but here we are.  That $10.8 million is actually an issue.  So drafting Sarr probably means 1 of Bruno, OO, Clint has to go if Sarr is to get minutes. So now its not, is Sarr #1 pick worthy but is he worth a #1 pick and losing Bruno? Is he a bigger WAR to Clint or OO right now?  No, so off to College Park with you.  Its a simple matter of cap mathematics. Our cap restrictions and poor showing last year mean, we need a player who can contribute now, 2 would be great.

Rookie contracts are great value but only if they are good.  That is tempered only by the notion that longterm outlook matters more than short term contributions.  Giannis is much better value than MCW or Blake Griffin, etc.  JJ is much better value than Brandon Clarke. Getting the pick right matters most. 

The fact that we are reportedly looking to trade out of the first spot doesn’t give me the warm fuzzies that we have strong confidence in any particular player.

[Jdawgflow]

6 hours ago, thecampster said:

I'm not putting anyone on blast with this thread.  That's just not me. But I stand by the concepts outlined. I was aware when I posted it people would push back.  Kwame was near consensus without much proven.  Sarr wasn't even a starter in his limited pro experience. They are similar size with Kwame having a better scouting report coming out.

A recent video podcast linked on here by a pro-Sarr poster admitted that Sarr might spend most of the first year at College Park. The podcast admitted his offense is a question mark, as is his weight and post defense.  When I'm picking #1, I don't like question marks. I want as few as possible. I'll let history and not other posters determine if I'm right or wrong.

I understand some of you are in love with the guy based on highlight videos and potential/word of mouth advertising. I am not and that's okay. That some specific people are coming at me about this post actually strengthens my resolve (some posters have a history of being very wrong, very often and a poor memory of it).

I haven't come out with "what I would do" if it were my off-season but here goes.

1) I do not trade Hunter unless there is a great package.
2) I do not trade Young or Murray unless I'm getting a great package. I'm not sold on them together as a back court, but I'm tired of taking it in the shorts on trades and contracts.

1a+2a) I realize 1 of the 3 is probably gone. If its a part of the deal that brings back Bridges, I'm down. As long as we get good value.

3) I package and ship off Capela any way I know how while he still has value. He's a season or two removed from not being able to keep up. Injuries/the game have taken a toll on his body. Move him to a team in win now mode who doesn't mind someone who cannot space the floor.  A center who can't space the floor has to be good around the basket. Clint is not good offensively anywhere anymore and is clogging the paint most nights with minimal return. His offensive rebound numbers are high because he's always around the rim. Some of those are just falling into his laps when our driving guards miss. Love his effort some nights, hate the package he brings.

4) One interesting scenario I'm 1000% on board with is trading #1 + Capela for 4+8 (+ matching salary of 2 players) and taking Edey+Knecht.  Edey + Knecht at 4 and 8 is a much better salary proposition than Sarr + 1 bench salary, provides 2 players than can contribute right now and specifically, an offensive threat down low. We have become way, way, way too guard dependent. Despite missing a combined 32 games, Trae and DeJounte scored 32.8% of our total points. That is just way too predictable and easy to defend.

5) Using the mid level to sign a vet 3+D wing
6) don't bring back Bey, Forest or W.Matthews.
7) do bring back Lundy (develop), Vit (rotation) while continuing to develop Gueye.

The above sheds a few million in salary while giving us a bigger, more versatile offensive roster.  Again, I realize most won't see it, but I'm not here to be popular.

I don’t necessarily want to do this exact plan but I think your thought process is great.

[Final_quest]

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

and not discounting anything you said above but we are now in a cash crunch. We need to drop some salary because
A) we have no money to sign anyone this year or next as currently constructed

and
 

B) we have very few picks upcoming (potentially 1 between 2025 and 2028) and the pick we do have won't be top 12.  

We cannot afford to blow this pick on shooting our shot.  Young players are how you fill out a roster with talent that can contribute a few minutes, maybe strike gold.  If we do what I stated in this thread, we will still be more than $30 million over the cap with 1 or 2 players to sign (this year and next). That $65 million starting back court has tied a knot in our cap for a while.  We need who we draft to be able to come in and play.  Drafting 1 who isn't NBA ready makes it worse.  Drafting 2 who can contribute gives us a better shot.

Big picture here



Even waiving Bey, W. Matthews, Forrest, Windler, while signing Vit/Lundy (2 way), that gives us 13 players, 1 two way.  The #1 overall pick gives us 14. So we have to sign 1 more. Adding Vit + the pick, we're at about $175.7 million. We'd be over the 1st apron and still need to sign a player but to less than 3 million to avoid the 2nd apron.  This is dire.  Teams in our salary cap situation typically don't get the 1st pick...but here we are.  That $10.8 million is actually an issue.  So drafting Sarr probably means 1 of Bruno, OO, Clint has to go if Sarr is to get minutes. So now its not, is Sarr #1 pick worthy but is he worth a #1 pick and losing Bruno? Is he a bigger WAR to Clint or OO right now?  No, so off to College Park with you.  Its a simple matter of cap mathematics. Our cap restrictions and poor showing last year mean, we need a player who can contribute now, 2 would be great.

 

$175M is the number I guesstimated.  Appreciate the long form summary.   

We're gonna need to make a trade or else we're very limited. 

So when we ask "Are we gonna use the TPE?".  There's no right or wrong answer.  It depends on what players are available and what trades we can make. 

We've maxed out our credit cards at the moment.