If the Hawks Don't Trade, Who Should Atlanta Take At #1?

[deester11]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

If we keep the pick I want Sarr. I think the FO is guilty of overthinking this. I'm not letting current roster guys keep me from taking who I think the best player will be if he hits and that's Sarr.

Thanks Soth. Anything otherwise is classic overthinking. 

[bird_dirt]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Landry should have the final say.  That is his job.  Listening to the others is fine but the coach is too focused on winning now, players have a spotty record at best, Ressler is just a fan.  Fields has all the scouts reporting into him and is charged with the full evaluation as well as the place of the pick in the larger scheme of roster management.  Fire the GM if you don’t trust them but let them do their job as long as they are in it.

He SHOULD absolutely, you’re right. But in the real world I have a hard time believing a young GM in his first job would override the owner, the star player, and the genius veteran coach. Hell, Ressler alone has already overruled GMs in the past. 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

How?

He ran his predecessor’s systems at a slower pace during his interim run.  When head coach, he had the team start focusing on more midrange shots and installed his own stuff that didn’t work nearly as well.  Fans flagged this early in the season and he never adjusted.  The GM decided to bring in a coach with modern systems which is where Quin entered the picture.  Nate wasn’t a disaster but didn’t deliver what the front office wanted to see.

Nate’s refusal to play JJ was probably the single most frustrating thing and was reportedly a real source of friction with multiple assistant coaches.

[AHF]

Just now, bird_dirt said:

He SHOULD absolutely, you’re right. But in the real world I have a hard time believing a young GM in his first job would override the owner, the star player, and the genius veteran coach. Hell, Ressler alone has already overruled GMs in the past. 

I’m not saying what will happen.  Just what I want to happen from a process perspective.  Ressler overriding his GM is a bigger sin to me than his refusal to pay for a non-bottom-10 payroll.

[Hawkmoor]

5 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Unfortunately Quin and Ressler have also been mentioned as Clingan fans. 
I am feeling if all three like him, then that’s who the pick will be regardless of who Landry/Korver think is the best player. 
 

Really, really, really that Sarr absolutely kills his workouts so hard that they come away knowing there is no doubt they should pick anyone else. Sarr really should start practicing his Pickle game and hit the other courts with Trae and JJ. 

Which fits pick and roll which is what Trae is about.  I mean whether you like it or not its still about Trae if they draft Clingan.  They don't like Clingan if he doesn't fit with Trae. Thats common sense.  Like you pointed out that doesn't necessarily mean its the final word on what they are gonna do.  What it IS saying that if they draft Clingan it ain't because of his post up game or outside shot.  Its the fit with the pick and roll and I said its a waste of the first pick of the draft because they already got that with Capela. As much as we have clowned Capela he has been solid in pick and roll with Trae. 

The Hawks problem is they do have talent.  Johnson, Hunter, Bogi, etc.  These guys are not scrubs.  The problem is you effectively neutralize them in a half court pick and roll offense based around your point guard and your center.  The Hawks need a motion offense.  Make the defense work.  They don't do that.  Teams play around with the Hawks during the regular season and when the play- in tournament or playoffs start, when it really matters, they get serious and shut the Hawks offense down.

[Hawkmoor]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He’s not a good coach.  He went back to his coaching style and things went off the rail.  He’s not a great X’s and O’s coach.  He’s terrible at player development.  

I'll give you the second part. Nate had no business keeping Jalen Johnson on the bench.  As far as the first part about coaching it doesn't matter because Quin has been running the same pick and roll offense that Nate did which is centered around Trae Young dominating the ball.

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He’s not a good coach.  He went back to his coaching style and things went off the rail.  He’s not a great X’s and O’s coach.  He’s terrible at player development.  

 

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Which fits pick and roll which is what Trae is about.  I mean whether you like it or not its still about Trae if they draft Clingan.  They don't like Clingan if he doesn't fit with Trae. Thats common sense.  Like you pointed out that doesn't necessarily mean its the final word on what they are gonna do.  What it IS saying that if they draft Clingan it ain't because of his post up game or outside shot.  Its the fit with the pick and roll and I said its a waste of the first pick of the draft because they already got that with Capela. As much as we have clowned Capela he has been solid in pick and roll with Trae. 

The Hawks problem is they do have talent.  Johnson, Hunter, Bogi, etc.  These guys are not scrubs.  The problem is you effectively neutralize them in a half court pick and roll offense based around your point guard and your center.  The Hawks need a motion offense.  Make the defense work.  They don't do that.  Teams play around with the Hawks during the regular season and when the play- in tournament or playoffs start, when it really matters, they get serious and shut the Hawks offense down.

The Hawks run a motion offense.  It includes the pick and roll.  

[AHF]

Just now, Hawkmoor said:

Which fits pick and roll which is what Trae is about.  I mean whether you like it or not its still about Trae if they draft Clingan.  They don't like Clingan if he doesn't fit with Trae. Thats common sense.  Like you pointed out that doesn't necessarily mean its the final word on what they are gonna do.  What it IS saying that if they draft Clingan it ain't because of his post up game or outside shot.  Its the fit with the pick and roll and I said its a waste of the first pick of the draft because they already got that with Capela. As much as we have clowned Capela he has been solid in pick and roll with Trae. 

The Hawks problem is they do have talent.  Johnson, Hunter, Bogi, etc.  These guys are not scrubs.  The problem is you effectively neutralize them in a half court pick and roll offense based around your point guard and your center.  The Hawks need a motion offense.  Make the defense work.  They don't do that.  Teams play around with the Hawks during the regular season and when the play- in tournament or playoffs start, when it really matters, they get serious and shut the Hawks offense down.

Quin has coached about 7 seasons and has started a big like Clingan in every single season.  Trae has worked just fine with OO so if it was just about how to make the offense work with Trae I think there are a lot of bigs who will work just fine.  The fact that CC started over OO (including when Trae wasn’t playing) speaks volumes to me about what Quin wants.

[Hawkmoor]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

He ran his predecessor’s systems at a slower pace during his interim run.  When head coach, he had the team start focusing on more midrange shots and installed his own stuff that didn’t work nearly as well.  Fans flagged this early in the season and he never adjusted.  The GM decided to bring in a coach with modern systems which is where Quin entered the picture.  Nate wasn’t a disaster but didn’t deliver what the front office wanted to see.

Nate’s refusal to play JJ was probably the single most frustrating thing and was reportedly a real source of friction with multiple assistant coaches.

Like I told @KB21  I will give you the part about not playing Jalen Johnson.  As far as the offense is concerned I see no difference in what Quin did than what Nate did.  They both let Trae run pick and roll and have stagnant offenses that just stand around.  The Hawks have horrible ball movement.  "modern systems".  There is no modern system with the Hawks offense.  Pick and roll is the foundation of Trae's game.

 

Edited June 10 by Hawkmoor

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I'll give you the second part. Nate had no business keeping Jalen Johnson on the bench.  As far as the first part about coaching it doesn't matter because Quin has been running the same pick and roll offense that Nate did which is centered around Trae Young dominating the ball.

 

When did Nate run 5 slot?   Quin’s offense is more than just PNR.  

[AHF]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

The Hawks run a motion offense.  It includes the pick and roll.  

Just look at the shot distribution under Nate and Snyder.  Night and day different.

[KB21]

 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

Its odd that I'm quoting Supes, then its ME getting disparaged for repeating what Supes said.  I guess Trae had zero parts in a GM and two head coaches getting fired when its known around the league that "superstar" players have that power.  It ain't just Trae.  The moment Adrian Griffin of the Milwaukee Bucks said something Giannis didn't like, Doc Rivers of all people became the next head coach of the Bucks.

 

Well, I wanna answer but ... yadda, yadda, stay on topic and all that ... 

... well, I can go back2forth with you and you won't get all whiny about it. Can't say the same for... others.  But I've said too much .... 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

 

Our shot diet was much better than 27th before Nate took over.  (And obviously after Nate was gone.).  He just loves the middy over the 3 which doesn’t work.

[theheroatl]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Our shot diet was much better than 27th before Nate took over.  (And obviously after Nate was gone.).  He just loves the middy over the 3 which doesn’t work.

If our defense even sniffs the top 15 we are in the ECF again.

Teams have just shot lights out against us. 
 

Here’s to hoping this month (June) that all changes. I also pray the FO recognizes that defensive upgrades around Trae will go a long long long long long way

[benhillboy]

I know nothing of Sarr and won’t until he plays a full NBA season.  I’m just far too ignorant on lesser pro leagues. The phrases “Evan Mobley”, and “potential” scare me though.  Hell I don’t even like the Cupcake ceiling notions. 

If it were “Chris Bosh” and “NBA ready starter” I’d be fully on board.

I do know Clingan’s ratings versus his national title winning team are eye popping (+19, Chet Holmgren was +20).  That data has proven an extremely accurate predictor for me in recent years so I won’t be mad at all if he’s the one selected.  
 

If the Hawks have the philosophical, coaching, and team IQ framework in place to maximize a blue chip pick out the gate like OKC did is a whole nother topic tho.  Just when I thought I couldn’t expect any less from the Hawks they hit 30th in defensive rating.  We know how this movie goes: they focus acquiring defense this offseason and the offense drops from 12th to 19th

Edited June 10 by benhillboy

[deester11]

3 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I know nothing of Sarr and won’t until he plays a full NBA season.  I’m just far too ignorant on lesser pro leagues. The phrases “Evan Mobley”, and “potential” scare me though.  Hell I don’t even like the Cupcake ceiling notions. 

If it were “Chris Bosh” and “NBA ready starter” I’d be fully on board.

I do know Clingan’s ratings versus his national title winning team are eye popping (+19, Chet Holmgren was +20).  That data has proven an extremely accurate predictor for me in recent years so I won’t be mad at all if he’s the one selected.  
 

If the Hawks have the philosophical, coaching, and team IQ framework in place to maximize a blue chip pick out the gate like OKC did is a whole nother topic tho.  Just when I thought I couldn’t expect any less from the Hawks they hit 30th in defensive rating.  We know how this movie goes: they focus acquiring defense this offseason and the offense drops from 12th to 19th

Ain't no way anybody has seen video or scouting reports on any of these players and thought.."Hmmm, they're a finished product." Even the nba ready players are close to their ceiling (room for growth though), or they are going to need 2-3 years to understand what they need to do in the nba.

On upside along, Sarr stands above the rest.  Inherently, that's a problem for some. The bbiq people know he can contribute defensively right now.  The other end is the crap shoot. One in which I gladly take because I'm going to trust the the FO does enough in trades to not resemble a herd of baby ducks in assembling this team.  Clingan has not grown on me but I'm resigned to thinking they like him or Risacher with Sarr in the middle. I've no problem with Clingan but I'm hoping for a trade or maneuver down a couple of spots.  Risacher...I'd rather not. 

[JTB]

On 6/9/2024 at 5:38 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Still missing some regulars who have not voted like: 

@TheNorthCydeRises @Sothron @kg01 @terrell @RedDawg#8 @HawksNWaffles @Mikey @Hawkmoor @benhillboy @deester11 @JTB

Polling is closed but I would select either Sarr or Clingan. I have reasons why I’d go one way or the other .

There is no best prospect in this draft to me. Sarr has the highest ceiling but he’s so far behind offensively it’s not exactly encouraging he reaches his full ability. Sarr has the best two way ability IF his offense develops.

While Clingan is considered a safe choice I truly believe he’s a DPOY candidate almost immediately no matter where he goes. Clingans defensive ceiling is higher than Sarrs in my opinion as far as overall defensive impact.

 

[AHF]

11 hours ago, JTB said:

Polling is closed but I would select either Sarr or Clingan. I have reasons why I’d go one way or the other .

There is no best prospect in this draft to me. Sarr has the highest ceiling but he’s so far behind offensively it’s not exactly encouraging he reaches his full ability. Sarr has the best two way ability IF his offense develops.

While Clingan is considered a safe choice I truly believe he’s a DPOY candidate almost immediately no matter where he goes. Clingans defensive ceiling is higher than Sarrs in my opinion as far as overall defensive impact.

 

You'll get a chance when the next iteration of the poll goes up later this week.  We'll see if Squawk opinion changes over time.

[Final_quest]

On 6/10/2024 at 10:44 AM, deester11 said:

Ain't no way anybody has seen video or scouting reports on any of these players and thought.."Hmmm, they're a finished product." Even the nba ready players are close to their ceiling (room for growth though), or they are going to need 2-3 years to understand what they need to do in the nba.

On upside along, Sarr stands above the rest.  Inherently, that's a problem for some. The bbiq people know he can contribute defensively right now.  The other end is the crap shoot. One in which I gladly take because I'm going to trust the the FO does enough in trades to not resemble a herd of baby ducks in assembling this team.  Clingan has not grown on me but I'm resigned to thinking they like him or Risacher with Sarr in the middle. I've no problem with Clingan but I'm hoping for a trade or maneuver down a couple of spots.  Risacher...I'd rather not. 

One concern I have for Sarr is his hands.  He’s not able to catch passes very well.  The list is pretty long on things he needs to improve on compared to other prospects.  Upside is his best feature.

 If you want to appeal to “bbiq people” they don’t seem to be placing Sarr as a tier above everyone in this draft.  There isn’t even buzz or rumors around teams making offers to move up to get him.  In my view many of our smartest posters don’t see him as that guy.

I think you have to really buy into his potential as a shooter.  Also, does he project to defend 5’s, or be the main paint defender and rebounder?  I’m asking is that a clear projection for him?  Many bbiq people don’t think he has even a trajectory as a 5.