Trae/Murray/Roster

[FL_BRYANT]

14 hours ago, gurpilo said:

I agree with the logic, who we should acquire to pair with Trae, however I think there are other ways to complete the team that do not require to give so much.

In my opinion first target should be Mikal Bridges. We can use, DJM, Capela, OO, Hunter and Sac pick to get him. We can even take some contract they want to unload as DFS. He is the perimeter defender we need. Something like DJM, OO and Sac pick for Mikal and DFS could work. Hopefully we can exchange Capela for OO.

About Jalen Suggs, I don't think we can get him. However in free agency we can sign De Anthony Melton that is also a perfect fit with Trae, other options might be Delon Wright and Gary Harris. 

Finnally I completely agree to sign Bamba, stretch big that if paired with Trae could flourish in Atlanta. I would also add Naji Marshall, another perimeter defender that fits nicely our team.

At #1 we need to go with Sarr

And we still can trade Capela and Hunter to other teams for picks and vets.

Trae/Bufkin/?

Melton/Bogi/Lundy

Mikal/Marshall/Hunter?

JJ/Bey/Gueye

Sarr/Bamba/Capela?

I would take a simpler approach to building out my roster. I try to work out a deal with the Pelicans.  I'm trying to get Ingram, Jordan Hawkins and a 2024 first round pick for Hunter, Capela and maybe Bogi. I try to hold on to OO. Here is where I veer off in a different direction. I use my two picks to draft Saar and Eddy. This takes care of my size needs. I did this without giving up OO or Murray. Hopefully the Pels are trying to get rid of Ingram. This leaves the Hawks with a lot of pieces in which they can go in many directions. You have a very strong offensive team and you can look for some additional defensive pieces. The roster looks as follows,

PG: Trae,Bufkin, Alvarado(FA)

SG: Murray, Griffin, Matthews

SF: Ingram, Bey?

PF: JJ, Saar, Gueye 

OO, Edey. 

You can fill out the roster with Vit, Lundy, Windler, Bruno,or some defensive minded veterans. 

This can be tweaked but we shouldn't have to take a step backwards.  If you still need to break up Trae and Murray you can do that at the trade deadline. 

This is a way of keeping your core without taking a step back. You've kept Trae, Murray and added another twenty point scorer in  Ingram. Not the greatest team defensively but a tremendous offensive team which has pieces that can be used to make adjustments to the roster. By adding Alvarado, great on ball defender and some good veteran wing defenders,I think we can compete.

I think this is a fun team to watch and one that can compete with pieces than can be moved if needed. We finally fill our need for size and we have added a third star ballplayer. Defensively we still have some work to do but we have a head start in building a competitive team.  I think this is a much better team than our present one. All with one trade. What you think? Can this be done? 

 

[AHF]

I think Ingram is a one year rental who will be too expensive to resign so that is my biggest reservation.  He and DJM operate in the same areas in the floor as well although I also think you must unload one of DJM or Trae.  I’m not sure that Ingram is an upgrade over Bogi offensively.  Bogi’s floor spacing is very effective next to Trae (although his on/off numbers are overstated because of how bad DJM next to Trae is he has always had good numbers).

[AHF]

Here is one of many stupid articles on the Hawk.  This one suggests several teams as trade destinations where he would be a huge value add to those teams.  Hilariously, there is not one word about what the Hawks would get back other than a “Hawks gave away their picks for DJM and since no one wants DJM just trade Trae for those picks back and tank.”

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trae-young-trade-rumors-why-hawks-need-to-cut-their-losses-hit-reset-with-no-1-draft-pick-in-the-bank/

[FL_BRYANT]

On 6/21/2024 at 1:16 AM, gurpilo said:

I agree with the logic, who we should acquire to pair with Trae, however I think there are other ways to complete the team that do not require to give so much.

In my opinion first target should be Mikal Bridges. We can use, DJM, Capela, OO, Hunter and Sac pick to get him. We can even take some contract they want to unload as DFS. He is the perimeter defender we need. Something like DJM, OO and Sac pick for Mikal and DFS could work. Hopefully we can exchange Capela for OO.

About Jalen Suggs, I don't think we can get him. However in free agency we can sign De Anthony Melton that is also a perfect fit with Trae, other options might be Delon Wright and Gary Harris. 

Finally I completely agree to sign Bamba, stretch big that if paired with Trae could flourish in Atlanta. I would also add Naji Marshall, another perimeter defender that fits nicely our team.

At #1 we need to go with Sarr

And we still can trade Capela and Hunter to other teams for picks and vets.

Trae/Bufkin/?

Melton/Bogi/Lundy

Mikal/Marshall/Hunter?

JJ/Bey/Gueye

Sarr/Bamba/Capela?

I would take a simpler approach to building out my roster. I try to work out a deal with the Pelicans.  I'm trying to get Ingram, Jordan Hawkins and a 2024 first round pick for Hunter, Capela and maybe Bogi. I try to hold on to OO. Here is where I veer off in a different direction. I use my two picks to draft Saar and Eddy. This takes care of my size needs. I did this without giving up OO or Murray. Hopefully the Pels are trying to get rid of Ingram. This leaves the Hawks with a lot of pieces in which they can go in many directions. You have a very strong offensive team and you can look for some additional defensive pieces. The roster looks as follows,

PG: Trae,Bufkin, Alvarado(FA)

SG: Murray, Griffin, Matthews

SF: Ingram, Bey?

PF: JJ, Saar, Gueye 

OO, Edey. . 

You can fill out the roster with Vit, Lundy, Windler, Bruno,or some defensive minded veterans. 

This can be tweaked but we shouldn't have to take a step backwards.  If you still need to break up Trae and Murray you can do that at the trade deadline. 

This is a way of keeping your core without taking a step back. You've kept Trae, Murray and added another twenty point scorer in  Ingram. Not the greatest team defensively but a tremendous offensive team which has pieces that can be used to make adjustments to the roster. By adding Alvarado, great on ball defender and some good veteran wing defenders,I think we can compete.

I think this is a fun team to watch and one that can compete with pieces than can be moved if needed. We finally fill our need for size and we have added a third star ballplayer. Defensively we still have some work to do but we have a head start in building a competitive team.  I think this is a much better team than our present one. All with one trade. What you think? Can this be done? 

Will the Hawks renew Ingram will tell if how serious the Hawks are about winning.  You can pivot to Bridges but I'm not selling the whole house for him. It really works if Griffin comes around as another young floor spacer. I really like the front court. There is concern about the sf position  with Ingram whether he stays and if we sign Bey. I'm happy with Ingram Trae, Murray, JJ, and OO with Saar,Edey, and Gueye. With some minor adjustments I think this team can contend. A lot of talent to work with. You can pick between Vit,Lundy and Windler can be used to fill out the roster. I really think this gets us pointed in the right way.

PS I try to get Jordan Hawkins in the trade too. Also Alvarado is a good free agent pickup.

 

 

[REHawksFan]

11 hours ago, AHF said:

Here is one of many stupid articles on the Hawk.  This one suggests several teams as trade destinations where he would be a huge value add to those teams.  Hilariously, there is not one word about what the Hawks would get back other than a “Hawks gave away their picks for DJM and since no one wants DJM just trade Trae for those picks back and tank.”

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trae-young-trade-rumors-why-hawks-need-to-cut-their-losses-hit-reset-with-no-1-draft-pick-in-the-bank/

The Hawks are nothing more than a farm team for "real" nba teams according to the national media. It's maddening.  Just once I want to see a national article focusing on how to actually benefit the Hawks rather than just raiding them for parts. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 hours ago, AHF said:

I think Ingram is a one year rental who will be too expensive to resign so that is my biggest reservation.  He and DJM operate in the same areas in the floor as well although I also think you must unload one of DJM or Trae.  I’m not sure that Ingram is an upgrade over Bogi offensively.  Bogi’s floor spacing is very effective next to Trae (although his on/off numbers are overstated because of how bad DJM next to Trae is he has always had good numbers).

At some point though, we can't keep using this excuse to pull the trigger on a move that could dramatically improve the team.

We don't want to make a move like this, but we keep players in place that either aren't making us better, or too young to make us better.

One yea rental or not, we need to stop acting scared to make a move that improves the team.  This franchise is coveting the wrong things. You don't covet role players. You switch them out if they aren't improving the team as a whole. 

[AHF]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

At some point though, we can't keep using this excuse to pull the trigger on a move that could dramatically improve the team.

We don't want to make a move like this, but we keep players in place that either aren't making us better, or too young to make us better.

One yea rental or not, we need to stop acting scared to make a move that improves the team.  This franchise is coveting the wrong things. You don't covet role players. You switch them out if they aren't improving the team as a whole. 

For me this is really about whether Ingram is a true star.  We’ve overpaid a lot of guys in the past and paid a steep price for that.  Ingram seems primed to be overpaid to me.  That is a bit of a problem.  Is he closer to Jayson Tatum or Andrew Wiggins?

Tatum:  .153 ws/48; BPM 3.6; VORP 24.6

Bridges: .113 ws/48; BPM 0.9; VORP 11.4

Ingram: .083 ws/48; BPM 0.1; VORP 8.4

Bogi: .085 ws/48; BPM 0.4; VORP 7.8

Wiggins: .058 ws/48; BPM -1.5; VORP 2.8

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

For me this is really about whether Ingram is a true star.  We’ve overpaid a lot of guys in the past and paid a steep price for that.  Ingram seems primed to be overpaid to me.  That is a bit of a problem.  Is he closer to Jayson Tatum or Andrew Wiggins?

Tatum:  .153 ws/48; BPM 3.6; VORP 24.6

Bridges: .113 ws/48; BPM 0.9; VORP 11.4

Ingram: .083 ws/48; BPM 0.1; VORP 8.4

Bogi: .085 ws/48; BPM 0.4; VORP 7.8

Wiggins: .058 ws/48; BPM -1.5; VORP 2.8

Yes but you can use the one year as a trial and then decide how much to offer in an extension.  My guess is he will be more impactful than Hunter but who knows by how much.  Teams dont generally trade mediocre talent for stars… I agree with north making incremental moves to get better are positive assuming they dont hamstring us from a cap perspective.  It all really depends on how much we have to send out to get him in the first place.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yes but you can use the one year as a trial and then decide how much to offer in an extension.  My guess is he will be more impactful than Hunter but who knows by how much.  Teams dont generally trade mediocre talent for stars… I agree with north making incremental moves to get better are positive assuming they dont hamstring us from a cap perspective.  It all really depends on how much we have to send out to get him in the first place.

I’m fine with a low value trade for a one year trial on BI.  That isn’t how I would describe the deals I’ve seen.  For example, because of contract issues I think Murray is significantly more valuable than Ingram so a deal like DJM and OO for BI and Dyson is a ridiculous overpay.  
 

CC + something modest for Ingram is closer to fair value.

[gurpilo]

hace 11 horas, AHF dijo:

For me this is really about whether Ingram is a true star.  We’ve overpaid a lot of guys in the past and paid a steep price for that.  Ingram seems primed to be overpaid to me.  That is a bit of a problem.  Is he closer to Jayson Tatum or Andrew Wiggins?

Tatum:  .153 ws/48; BPM 3.6; VORP 24.6

Bridges: .113 ws/48; BPM 0.9; VORP 11.4

Ingram: .083 ws/48; BPM 0.1; VORP 8.4

Bogi: .085 ws/48; BPM 0.4; VORP 7.8

Wiggins: .058 ws/48; BPM -1.5; VORP 2.8

Ingram is not a star and Ingram is not going to make us a contender, is ridiculous to give a star for  Ingram, specially considering his contract is expiring and anyone would overpay for him. If we want to trade for a wing that improves our team and is a good fit with Trae and JJ that is Mikal Bridges and I would give a lot for him, essentially anyone from DJM, Hunter, Bogi, Capela and even OO, I would even include Sac first. DJM for Mikal Bridges and DFS works.

[FL_BRYANT]

As they say scared money don't make no money. I'm not afraid of trading for Ingram.  Because he may be a one year rental the cost will be less than Bridges. Yes I would take Bridges but at what cost, DH,CC,Bogi, and a first round pick. They may ask for Murray too. I will pass on this. Way too much. I'm not trying to do a complete rebuild.

With my proposal we keep Trae,Murray,JJ,OO and add Ingram. Trae, Murray and Ingram give us 60 plus pts a night. Ingram is a better option than Hunter. If we can get Hawkins and a number one which we turn into Edey.

I think this points us in the right direction . If Ingram turns out and the team looks promising we pay market for him or trade him at the deadline if we can't sign him. At worst we clear a lot of cap space.  If we want a contending team we will have to pay. The Hawks have to decide what they want.

PG: Trae,Bufkin, Alvarado(FA)

SG: Murray, Hawkins , Matthews

SF: Ingram, Griffin, Bey?

PF: JJ, Saar, Gueye 

OO, Edey ,

Let's see what Q can do with this. Player development will be a huge part of his job.9y0754>

 

[Final_quest]

On 6/22/2024 at 10:34 PM, REHawksFan said:

The Hawks are nothing more than a farm team for "real" nba teams according to the national media. It's maddening.  Just once I want to see a national article focusing on how to actually benefit the Hawks rather than just raiding them for parts. 

They understand what gets clicks.  It’s that simple.  

[benhillboy]

On 6/23/2024 at 6:54 AM, AHF said:

For me this is really about whether Ingram is a true star.  We’ve overpaid a lot of guys in the past and paid a steep price for that.  Ingram seems primed to be overpaid to me.  That is a bit of a problem.  Is he closer to Jayson Tatum or Andrew Wiggins?

Tatum:  .153 ws/48; BPM 3.6; VORP 24.6

Bridges: .113 ws/48; BPM 0.9; VORP 11.4

Ingram: .083 ws/48; BPM 0.1; VORP 8.4

Bogi: .085 ws/48; BPM 0.4; VORP 7.8

Wiggins: .058 ws/48; BPM -1.5; VORP 2.8

Damn I didn’t realize Wiggins was .058 for his career lol.  But even he’s a stretch for Ingram who could never muster Wiggins’ defense from the Warriors championship run.  
 

He’d have the same general overall impact as Dre, which is negligible.  Ingram’s career on/off is -.7/+.6, virtually identical to Dre if you wanna round off.  Here is the core in their time with the Hawks:

Bogi +3.2/+6.1 

Clint +2.6/+4.1

Trae -.9/+2.6 

OO +.8/+1.3

Dre -1.2/+1.1

DJ -2.2/-4

DJ is ass.  At least Trae’s sheer ability to assume a historic career usage shows up when he’s off the floor.  
 

Other teams know DJ applies no pressure defensively and doesn’t get to the line, hence the trouble in the Hawks finding “perceived” value for him.  The Suns have not one, not two, but three midrange monsters like DJ and DeRozan and it means little to nothing in the game’s current state of math.  You’d be hard pressed to find a player with such an outlier year in terms of metrics as his final season in SA.  I thought we were getting an elite rebounding and very good vision guard who understands the importance of screening/slipping, and cutting alongside Trae, boy was I wrong.

Edited Monday at 10:55 AM by benhillboy

[macdaddy]

On 6/22/2024 at 6:09 PM, FL_BRYANT said:

PG: Trae,Bufkin, Alvarado(FA)

SG: Murray, Griffin, Matthews

SF: Ingram, Bey?

PF: JJ, Saar, Gueye 

OO, Edey. . 

This is probably close to what it will look like except Murray will be gone for Ingram and we'll have Clingan and whoever we get for Clint. 

[theheroatl]

 

 

Ayo

[FL_BRYANT]

8 hours ago, macdaddy said:

This is probably close to what it will look like except Murray will be gone for Ingram and we'll have Clingan and whoever we get for Clint. 

I want Ingram, Hawkins and a number one which I flip for Edey. I think Hunter, Capela and Bogi should be enough to get this trade done especially with the possibility that Ingram is a rental. This gives us a nice mix of youth, offense, athleticism, physicality and size.  Plus we have pieces we can trade if it doesn't work. Fill out the roster with vets who play perimeter defense and rebound.

Remember Trae ain't feeling no rebuild !!! 

 

[AHF]

On 6/24/2024 at 6:50 AM, benhillboy said:

Damn I didn’t realize Wiggins was .058 for his career lol.  But even he’s a stretch for Ingram who could never muster Wiggins’ defense from the Warriors championship run.  
 

He’d have the same general overall impact as Dre, which is negligible.  Ingram’s career on/off is -.7/+.6, virtually identical to Dre if you wanna round off.  Here is the core in their time with the Hawks:

Bogi +3.2/+6.1 

Clint +2.6/+4.1

Trae -.9/+2.6 

OO +.8/+1.3

Dre -1.2/+1.1

DJ -2.2/-4

DJ is ass.  At least Trae’s sheer ability to assume a historic career usage shows up when he’s off the floor.  
 

Other teams know DJ applies no pressure defensively and doesn’t get to the line, hence the trouble in the Hawks finding “perceived” value for him.  The Suns have not one, not two, but three midrange monsters like DJ and DeRozan and it means little to nothing in the game’s current state of math.  You’d be hard pressed to find a player with such an outlier year in terms of metrics as his final season in SA.  I thought we were getting an elite rebounding and very good vision guard who understands the importance of screening/slipping, and cutting alongside Trae, boy was I wrong.

I would amend this to say that DJM is ass at shooting guard.  I still think he can be a solid multi-dimensional player at point guard.  We just don't have an opening at PG unless Trae is shipped out so you can't keep them both.

[benhillboy]

I’d appreciate it if anyone has this article:

Edited Wednesday at 12:36 AM by benhillboy

[JayBirdHawk]

Dejounte Murray trade rumors

The Hawks seem poised to move either Murray or Trae Young this summer



When the Hawks landed Dejounte Murray two years ago, he was supposed to be their missing piece. A defensive guard who could lock down opposing ball-handlers and minimize Trae Young's weaknesses on one end of the floor and a secondary ball-handler who would force Young to participate more in the offense as an off-ball mover on the other was exactly what we all thought the Hawks needed.

It hasn't worked out that way. The fit between the two clearly hasn't worked. The Hawks haven't won a playoff series with Murray.

What destinations make sense?
Murray can work on several teams, but he's not as easy a fit as, say, Mikal Bridges would be. He needs to play point guard. He needs to be surrounded by shooting, because while he has improved, he still isn't great from 3-point range. He would also probably be best-served playing on a strong defensive team. If he can revert to his younger form on that end, great, but it isn't something a new team can rely on. Here are three teams that make some sense.

New Orleans Pelicans: The Pelicans need a point guard and were interested in Murray in February. In Brandon Ingram, they could send the Hawks back a high-end wing that would help balance their roster out a little bit, and such a deal would help the Pelicans with their impending tax problems (though create new ones for the Hawks if Ingram extends). This is one of the easier player-for-player trade ideas of the offseason. It fills a need for both teams with players of similar stature and age. Both teams have surpluses at the positions they'd be trading from, so something with this base would work for both sides provided the Hawks plan to remain in win-now mode.

Los Angeles Lakers: The Lakers looked into a Murray trade at the deadline, but had only one first-round pick to offer. Now they have three, potentially opening the door for a swap. Murray is represented by Klutch Sports, which connects him to LeBron James and Anthony Davis. James would need to give up some ball-handling responsibility to make life easier on Murray, but it would be easier for Los Angeles to match his salary than some of the max-level guards they've also been linked to. Murray would have to improve defensively back to where he was as a Spur for this deal to be worthwhile for the Lakers. Otherwise, it's only a slight upgrade on D'Angelo Russell. But if he could, it would have real upside for the Lakers.

Brooklyn Nets: The Nets want a superstar to pair with Bridges. Their presumed first choice, Donovan Mitchell, doesn't seem as available as previously believed. Murray is a middle-ground option. He's not a star, but he won't cost star prices either. The Nets could grab him while retaining the bulk of their trade assets in an effort to improve this season while courting a true superstar in the 2025 offseason. Brooklyn badly needs guard help, so if they're desperate to improve now, Murray makes some sense as a short-term upgrade.

What is the latest reporting?
Most of the reporting on the Atlanta trade market has focused on Young, but there have been a few worthwhile nuggets on Murray. The Jazz, for instance, reportedly turned down an offer of Murray for young guard Keyonte George. The Pelicans reportedly consider Murray more valuable than Young, which is a sentiment that has floated around several teams this offseason. Whether that means Murray's value has grown or Young's value has shrunk is uncertain, but it seems as though he'll have a reasonable market this offseason.

 

Dejounte Murray trade rumors: Lakers among potential landing spots as Hawks reevaluate backcourt pairing - CBSSports.com

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Dejounte Murray trade rumors

The Hawks seem poised to move either Murray or Trae Young this summer



When the Hawks landed Dejounte Murray two years ago, he was supposed to be their missing piece. A defensive guard who could lock down opposing ball-handlers and minimize Trae Young's weaknesses on one end of the floor and a secondary ball-handler who would force Young to participate more in the offense as an off-ball mover on the other was exactly what we all thought the Hawks needed.

It hasn't worked out that way. The fit between the two clearly hasn't worked. The Hawks haven't won a playoff series with Murray.

What destinations make sense?
Murray can work on several teams, but he's not as easy a fit as, say, Mikal Bridges would be. He needs to play point guard. He needs to be surrounded by shooting, because while he has improved, he still isn't great from 3-point range. He would also probably be best-served playing on a strong defensive team. If he can revert to his younger form on that end, great, but it isn't something a new team can rely on. Here are three teams that make some sense.

New Orleans Pelicans: The Pelicans need a point guard and were interested in Murray in February. In Brandon Ingram, they could send the Hawks back a high-end wing that would help balance their roster out a little bit, and such a deal would help the Pelicans with their impending tax problems (though create new ones for the Hawks if Ingram extends). This is one of the easier player-for-player trade ideas of the offseason. It fills a need for both teams with players of similar stature and age. Both teams have surpluses at the positions they'd be trading from, so something with this base would work for both sides provided the Hawks plan to remain in win-now mode.

Los Angeles Lakers: The Lakers looked into a Murray trade at the deadline, but had only one first-round pick to offer. Now they have three, potentially opening the door for a swap. Murray is represented by Klutch Sports, which connects him to LeBron James and Anthony Davis. James would need to give up some ball-handling responsibility to make life easier on Murray, but it would be easier for Los Angeles to match his salary than some of the max-level guards they've also been linked to. Murray would have to improve defensively back to where he was as a Spur for this deal to be worthwhile for the Lakers. Otherwise, it's only a slight upgrade on D'Angelo Russell. But if he could, it would have real upside for the Lakers.

Brooklyn Nets: The Nets want a superstar to pair with Bridges. Their presumed first choice, Donovan Mitchell, doesn't seem as available as previously believed. Murray is a middle-ground option. He's not a star, but he won't cost star prices either. The Nets could grab him while retaining the bulk of their trade assets in an effort to improve this season while courting a true superstar in the 2025 offseason. Brooklyn badly needs guard help, so if they're desperate to improve now, Murray makes some sense as a short-term upgrade.

What is the latest reporting?
Most of the reporting on the Atlanta trade market has focused on Young, but there have been a few worthwhile nuggets on Murray. The Jazz, for instance, reportedly turned down an offer of Murray for young guard Keyonte George. The Pelicans reportedly consider Murray more valuable than Young, which is a sentiment that has floated around several teams this offseason. Whether that means Murray's value has grown or Young's value has shrunk is uncertain, but it seems as though he'll have a reasonable market this offseason.

 

Dejounte Murray trade rumors: Lakers among potential landing spots as Hawks reevaluate backcourt pairing - CBSSports.com

If we don’t deal with the Pels we sure as heck flirted with them a lot.