Trae/Murray/Roster

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Afro said:

Yeah, his signings were fine. I'm just talking about his draft picks, which is where I feel he gets almost all of his reputation/praise. 

Trae and Hunter were the only ones to offer any kind of longterm asset.

Its a hard thing to balance. He picked very good players. But almost all of them were gone within 5ish years with absolutely nothing to show for it because of the contracts that ultimately fall on him. 

Yes but i meant that the deals he signed for Hunter and Collins only look bad because we waited too long to trade them.  Which i'm guessing was pressure from ownership not wanting to trade them earlier.  We don't know for sure but pretty sure we could have traded JC a year or two sooner for value.     Kev was signed to a good deal and got decent value in a trade.   Hunter we'll have to see.  Heck we even got a first for Cam but not sure who to give credit to on that. 

[Jdawgflow]

10 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Preach it.  Oh..from the roof tops preach that shyt! Ohhhhwheeee

That dude looks scary evil.

[Wretch]

1 minute ago, Jdawgflow said:

That dude looks scary evil.

OT:
Man IS he ever that...  Kenneth Copeland, prosperity preacher.  The gif is from a reporter grilling him about buying a private jet and he absolutely LOST it.

[Jdawgflow]

2 minutes ago, Wretch said:

OT:
Man IS he ever that...  Kenneth Copeland, prosperity preacher.  The gif is from a reporter grilling him about buying a private jet and he absolutely LOST it.

So…definitely evil.  The furthest thing from Jesus.  Smh 

[cam1218]

One aspect to think about is a lot of our minds are thinking next year. What happens in two years? I don’t see any possible scenario, as of today, we are sniffing the finals next season. Obviously tanking should not be an option, but with limited draft capital I do think we should be thinking about having as many assets (good players, contracts, whatever that is to you) for the future. To me, that is part of this discussion as well.

[deester11]

20 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

That dude looks scary evil.

He's a crook for the Lord.  . But perhaps he can not screw this offseason up...I got a bad feeling 

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yes but i meant that the deals he signed for Hunter and Collins only look bad because we waited too long to trade them.  Which i'm guessing was pressure from ownership not wanting to trade them earlier.  We don't know for sure but pretty sure we could have traded JC a year or two sooner for value.     Kev was signed to a good deal and got decent value in a trade.   Hunter we'll have to see.  Heck we even got a first for Cam but not sure who to give credit to on that. 

I think we fumbled the contract negotiations with both Hunter and Collins.  We overpaid Collins offering him more than every other team and not making him either agree to a much lower number of go get his own contract.  We did the same thing with Hunter before he even showed he could make it through a season healthy and productive.  I feel like we bid against ourselves which undermines the entire point of RFA (i.e., that you don't have to do that).  

Trading Cam for a first was clearly a good move.  I wasn't ready to move off him yet (not being aware of how he selfishly asked out and still having hope he could level up) and was wrong for criticizing that trade.

[REHawksFan]

2 hours ago, cam1218 said:

I think some folks don't understand what some people are suggesting when there are mentions of the "option" of trading Trae Young. Like pretty much everyone here, I was a Hawks fan before Trae, and ultimately I want what is best for the Hawks. I'll gladly admit that Trae is my favorite player, he's the only player I have a bought a Hawks jersey for since Horford. By all means I would much rather move on from DJM, keep Trae, and build a team that is successful around him. Heck, I wish the pairing of DJM and Trae DID work, because I like both players. Unfortunately, it didn't and that is where we are at. A lot of it is the pairing, but I keep in mind that we also let John Collins and Kevin Huerter go and still haven't really received any value from that other than Jalen Johnson getting more minutes. Even with that, he was hurt a good bit this year.

So rounding back to my first sentence, how do we get better? I honestly don't know, but I believe it definitely starts with listening to offers for both guards and see what return makes the team better. I have no idea what those offers would look like, and we can all assume what they might look like based on rumors of what the return *might* be, but again - these are rumors. We have other issues that need to be addressed, such as front court depth (and health), but until we figure out if our path forward is with Trae + what DJM brings back or DJM + what Trae brings back it is kind of hard to focus on how this team will be built. Personally, I hope it is with Trae + what DJM brings back, but I also hope they are doing their due diligence and exploring all options to improve this team.

 

 

The issue is trading superstar players rarely, if ever, returns similar caliber players.  And multiple lesser players does not aggregate to equal an elite player. Trades involving superstar players typically return some collection of role players that match salary plus picks.  In all likelihood, any Trae trade is going to return role players to pair with DJM, a role player in his own right. 

If you trade DJM, a really good role player, you'll get back some collection of role players.  You may not be able to find a 1 to 1 scenario that is exactly equal, but the chances of finding a similar player or two similar players that match the value of DJM is much greater. 

So it just doesn't make sense to even talk in terms of "do you trade Trae or trade DJM." The answer is obvious, or should be.  On the one hand you get DJM plus some collection of role players.  And on the other hand you get Trae plus some collection of role players.  Trae is a Top 15 player in the NBA.  DJM is a Top 60 player in the NBA.  Suggesting there's some magical way to trade Trae for equal value that can be the leader of the team is banking on the exception rather than the rule.  

I too have been a Hawks fan much longer than I've been a Trae fan.  And Trae is my favorite Hawk.  But that isn't the reason I've been so adamant about this.  The bottom line is a Trae trade is going to result in the Hawks having a bunch of role players without a star.  Trading DJM at least gives you the chance at finding a really good player or two that fit Trae better than DJM does.    

So the only thing that makes sense is trading DJM where you can at least feel comfortable that you are going to get players that are closer in value to DJM.  You can build with superstar Trae plus potential all-star JJ plus role players you get back for DJM.  The key is the fit.  

 

[cam1218]

9 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

The issue is trading superstar players rarely, if ever, returns similar caliber players.  And multiple lesser players does not aggregate to equal an elite player. Trades involving superstar players typically return some collection of role players that match salary plus picks.  In all likelihood, any Trae trade is going to return role players to pair with DJM, a role player in his own right. 

If you trade DJM, a really good role player, you'll get back some collection of role players.  You may not be able to find a 1 to 1 scenario that is exactly equal, but the chances of finding a similar player or two similar players that match the value of DJM is much greater. 

So it just doesn't make sense to even talk in terms of "do you trade Trae or trade DJM." The answer is obvious, or should be.  On the one hand you get DJM plus some collection of role players.  And on the other hand you get Trae plus some collection of role players.  Trae is a Top 15 player in the NBA.  DJM is a Top 60 player in the NBA.  Suggesting there's some magical way to trade Trae for equal value that can be the leader of the team is banking on the exception rather than the rule.  

I too have been a Hawks fan much longer than I've been a Trae fan.  And Trae is my favorite Hawk.  But that isn't the reason I've been so adamant about this.  The bottom line is a Trae trade is going to result in the Hawks having a bunch of role players without a star.  Trading DJM at least gives you the chance at finding a really good player or two that fit Trae better than DJM does.    

So the only thing that makes sense is trading DJM where you can at least feel comfortable that you are going to get players that are closer in value to DJM.  You can build with superstar Trae plus potential all-star JJ plus role players you get back for DJM.  The key is the fit.  

 

I definitely agree with this. I think the key thing is being open to scenarios that help our future, not just next season. I’m sure you have seen that pretty much all of us don’t want a world where Trae is traded.

What if we retool with a DJM trade, it doesn’t work out, and then Trae wants out? There are a lot of things going on that we don’t know about. You are right about the fit, which is also hard because we cannot predict the future of our own players improvement (including the number one pick) or players who may become available. What if JJ becomes a star and all of a sudden Trae’s playmaking ability isn’t as needed? There are a lot of variables, which makes this offseason so pivotal. I hope the front office nails it and ownership shows (for once) they are ready to invest in this team.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, cam1218 said:

21 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

IWhat if we retool with a DJM trade, it doesn’t work out, and then Trae wants out?

What if we retool with a Trae trade, it doesn't work out, and then DJ wants out?

We know it was rumored that DJ had asked for a trade leading up to the deadline.  Just saying.

[JayBirdHawk]

48 minutes ago, cam1218 said:

What if JJ becomes a star and all of a sudden Trae’s playmaking ability isn’t as needed?

All I know is we need more talent across the board, not less, so saying we won't need Trae if JJ excels doesn't make much sense to me. 

[cam1218]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All I know is we need more talent across the board, not less.

Kind of replying to both, but yeah 100%. There are certain variables we don’t know regarding both guards. I think we can all agree winning cures all, we haven’t been winning, and getting there isn’t a clear and direct path.

I’m also a little surprised with how bad we were this year after last year’s showing in the playoffs against Miami and Boston. It definitely surprised me, probably a lot of us, off guard a bit.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, cam1218 said:

Kind of replying to both, but yeah 100%. There are certain variables we don’t know regarding both guards. I think we can all agree winning cures all, we haven’t been winning, and getting there isn’t a clear and direct path.

I’m also a little surprised with how bad we were this year after last year’s showing in the playoffs against Miami and Boston. It definitely surprised me, probably a lot of us, off guard a bit.

Trading JC to get under the tax, signing Wes, drafting Kobe - that was the extent of our offseason moves. 

[Afro]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trading JC to get under the tax, signing Wes, drafting Kobe - that was the extent of our offseason moves. 

I need you to refrain from posting this for my mental health. 

[JayBirdHawk]

23 minutes ago, Afro said:

I need you to refrain from posting this for my mental health. 

..No!

[KB21]

With the realization that there is no getting better now by trading Trae, the baseline package should be similar to what Utah got for Rudy Gobert.  

[gurpilo]

If we decide to give Trae a chance to win and we keep him I would consider just Trae, Sarr and JJ keepers, rest of the roster can be traded for the right price.

I would go all in for Mikal Bridges, using DJM as centerpiece and adding any other player to make the trade work, we can take Dorian Finn Smith back as they want to unload him. Something like DJM/Capela/Sac pick for Mikal/Dorian might work.

Then I would trade for 10-15 first round pick and select Edey. 

Rest of the roster would be fulles through FA.

Trae/Kobe/FA

Mikal/Bogi/FA

Hunter/Gueye/Bey

JJ/Sarr/Bey

OO/Edey/FA

At FA we need a backup defensive PG as Delon Wright or DA Melton, a 3&D wing that can play SG as Gary Harris, Lonnie Walker, Bullock or Beasley and a veteran Big C as Mcgee, Drummond, Bamba, Plunlee or similar.

I think this is a team that can really progress on the playoffs.

Edited June 12 by gurpilo

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, gurpilo said:

 

I would go all in for Mikal Bridges, using DJM as centerpiece and adding any other player to make the trade work, we can take Dorian Finn Smith back as they want to unload him. Something like DJM/Capela/Sac pick for Mikal/Dorian might work.

I had hopes Murray could get us deals like this, but haven’t seen any evidence we can get a package like that.  It’s why I like the NO deal.  I get that Ingram is overpaid, but to me Herb Jones offsets the overpay.  Especially if we offload an overpaid guy like Hunter.  
But I don’t think Brooklyn does this deal, not at all.  We’ll see if some other Murray rumors come in.  

[Afro]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

..No!

In the words of @KB21

 

Lol

[KB21]

Trade #1 for me:

• Dejounte Murray to Brooklyn Nets
• Cam Johnson and Dariq Whitehead to Atlanta Hawks

This would give Atlanta a better fitting wing in Cam Johnson and a young wing with upside in Dariq Whitehead, who they liked in the draft last year.