2024-25 Insider Thread

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, ShayD said:

GMs apparently think Franz deserve 200mil+. That's allstar impact money. Landry does not think JJ deserves anywhere close to that. Also Randle was voted into Allstar game last year, above Trae Young, so he is an Allstar according coaches and players. And Knicks were winning games with both Randle and Brunson.

JJ is probably going to get between $30-35M per year if I had to guess.  He has all the leverage in the world right now.  Things seem to be iffy with Trae and he's lined up to be the next face of the franchise if we trade Trae.  Plus he's shown big improvement this past season.  I wouldn't be surprised to see JJ play hard ball and even take talks into next offseason if he needs to.  And y'all know Ressler loves paying guys who are creating dunk poster content

[kg01]

20 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Perhaps "close" is not the right terminology. But we aren't winning games, not enough games to be taken seriously. We brought DJ in, he put up numbers, but it's been decided by the board now that DJ was/is not a winning player. Well what exactly makes Trae a winning player? That ECF appearance is getting further and further in the rear view mirror. This is starting to look like Bradley Beal and Wizards situation. If we have another 35 to 40 win season, that's exactly what it's going to like to everyone but Trae loyalists, who continue singing his praises seemingly no matter what. 

Why do we always ignore context?  People want to thin-slice when it comes to Trae but not when it comes to our situation overall.  I don't get it.

There are actually very few "Trae loyalists" here.  But an abundance of blind Trae detractors that faithfully jump on any glimmer of negativity related to him individually - to be clear, bleach, this comment is not meant for you.

[JayBirdHawk]

38 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

At this point, instead of Walker Kessler I would go for a stretch 5 as Kelly Ollynik or Orlando Robinson, makes more sense and will have a better impact on the team, provide some options for the team and are adequate defenders. I would cut Bruno, Zeller or Liddell to sign them, of course is not going to happen.

We can release Bruno and his unguaranteed contract ($2.7 mil) with no cap hit. Cutting Zeller and Lidell ($5.6 mil) will count against the cap, so better to find a trade for them to clear the space.

[deester11]

Just now, kg01 said:

Why do we always ignore context?  People want to thin-slice when it comes to Trae but not when it comes to our situation overall.  I don't get it.

There are actually very few "Trae loyalists" here.  But an abundance of blind Trae detractors that faithfully jump on any glimmer of negativity related to him individually - to be clear, bleach, this comment is not meant for you.

And that is the perfect point KG. I think even Traes most ardent supporters know that he has flaws that can be maddening. But nitpicking on the most mundane arguments really gets old. He’s obviously had all world players at every position since his arrival in Atlanta. Yeah. Right.  Give me a break. And to be clear @bleachkit....I hope you have an amazing day

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We can release Bruno and his unguaranteed contract ($2.7 mil) with no cap hit. Cutting Zeller and Lidell ($5.6 mil) will count against the cap, so better to find a trade for them to clear the space.

Which invites the question of why any team would want to trade for them.

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, deester11 said:

And that is the perfect point KG. I think even Traes most ardent supporters know that he has flaws that can be maddening. But nitpicking on the most mundane arguments really gets old. He’s obviously had all world players at every position since his arrival in Atlanta. Yeah. Right.  Give me a break. And to be clear @bleachkit....I hope you have an amazing day

Yeah my overall question is why do we nitpick Trae but choose not to nitpick other aspects of the team/organization?

And again, to be clear, my anger (and seemingly odd post) is not directed at @bleachkit.  Me and him can fight for other reasons, just not this one. 

[JayBirdHawk]

48 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

We brought DJ in while losing Gallo, Lou, Delon and Huerter....while only adding the Holi's and Frank

Fixed for you.

[Afro]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae is a low floor, high ceiling, player, which in my opinion, is why he is so polarizing to so many people.  Unlike guys like Lebron, Luka, Embiid, and other tier 1A players, Trae cannot carry a team of bums to the playoffs.  He can look quite bad (inefficient chucker who turns it over forcing passes) with bad teammates.  The flip is he can be elite (on offense) with good players with good chemistry with the skill sets needed to surround him.  He generally raises the offensive ceiling of the players he's playing with.  It's partly why JC got that ridiculous contract and guys like Alex Len/Dedmon look like they belong in a rotation somewhere.

I actually agree with you that he struggles to close games but mostly because that's when teams start attacking him on defense.  I'm hoping Daniels shores up that problem as Quin will be able to better scheme with actual POA defenders on the floor.  If you look at clutch time stats from last year, another glaring piece is how awful Capela is.  He's good on the defensive end but he drags down the whole team on offense.  Okongwu was our best player on the floor by net rating in the clutch last year, which is not surprising to me because refs tend to not call ticky tacky fouls in pivotal moments.  Most of the team was garbage though which is why we lost so many games.

 

 

When exactly has embiid carried bums to the playoffs 

[Afro]

51 minutes ago, AHF said:

Which invites the question of why any team would want to trade for them.

Oh Detroit would love for us to..... Pay them to take Zeller. 

Which was kind of your entire original Zeller point lol

Edited July 9 by Afro

[Dejay]

50 minutes ago, AHF said:

Which invites the question of why any team would want to trade for them.

Yeah. Trading any assets away to bring in Zeller should be fireable offense for any GM in this league who don't already have championship rings falling out of his pockets...

[capstone21]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

It’s going to take this to get it done more than likely but we’d have to be absolutely sure this is the right deal!

I like Walker…he could probably avg 16/12 with Trae on more efficient numbers than CC. His shot blocking ability is superb compared to CC and so far he has better touch around the goal than CC. I saw that he’s working on his 3s, he doesn’t have a broken jumper, it’s just not reliable.

he certainly ain’t no Ayton but with better wings , this may be the way to go. A combo of Walker and OO along with Nance and hopefully Bruno is a better big man rotation.

I threw in Clarkson because we’d have a hell of a bench between him and Bogi, potentially Hunter if not traded. I really don’t think Hunter should start unless we are also starting Risacher.

I am not a Clarkson fan but I would consider this.  My one question is why is Utah looking to unload their only center?

[Gray Mule]

Liddell (Yes. two d's and 2l's is the correct spelling) is returning from injury.  No need to trade him right now.  Let him play some, either with the Hawks or the Skyhawks.  If he's no good, get rid of him.  But, maybe, just maybe, we have a jewel that we really have no idea about.  If we trade him right now and then he explodes we will be so  sorry that we didn't try him out first.

[RedDawg#8]

10 minutes ago, Afro said:

When exactly has embiid carried bums to the playoffs 

No superstar has ever done it on their own. Even the bad Lebron teams still had a prime Kyrie and recent (at that time) all star Kevin Love.

This narrative that certain players do it on their own is blatantly wrong. If Lebron was a Hawk, he would have had 85% of this roster traded away so that he could play with (2) other all stars.

Embiid has always played with star talent from Butler, to pre crazy Simmons, Harden, Maxey, now PG. If Trae had that much talent around him and never won anything people would call him a cancer.

Luka had Dirk, Porzingus, Brunson, Kyrie, etc… Again, people say things that sound nice until you look at it and realize it’s flat out not true.

Trae may not be Lebron, but 99.99% of all basketball players can’t live up to that standard. We don’t hold that against other star talents. 

[JeffS17]

25 minutes ago, Afro said:

When exactly has embiid carried bums to the playoffs 

Well, technically the refs carry them to the playoffs, but through Embiid

[Afro]

11 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

No superstar has ever done it on their own. Even the bad Lebron teams still had a prime Kyrie and recent (at that time) all star Kevin Love.

This narrative that certain players do it on their own is blatantly wrong. If Lebron was a Hawk, he would have had 85% of this roster traded away so that he could play with (2) other all stars.

Embiid has always played with star talent from Butler, to pre crazy Simmons, Harden, Maxey, now PG. If Trae had that much talent around him and never won anything people would call him a cancer.

Luka had Dirk, Porzingus, Brunson, Kyrie, etc… Again, people say things that sound nice until you look at it and realize it’s flat out not true.

Trae may not be Lebron, but 99.99% of all basketball players can’t live up to that standard. We don’t hold that against other star talents. 

1000000%

Ill give LeBron credit for those early Cavs years, because he deserves it. But... He's at worst the 2nd best player of all time. 

And he's the only one in the modern game that's done it(but like you say, hasn't done it in 15ish years....) 

[Afro]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

Well, technically the refs carry them to the playoffs, but through Embiid

Embiid has had a super team almost every year after the very beginning of the process and recently had at least a very decent-good supporting cast. 

Same goes for Luka, but not quite the "super team" part like Embiid had. 

 

[Afro]

Traes best running mate by far has been DJM. And most here would say that was turrible.

What is this conversation lol. 

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Perhaps "close" is not the right terminology. But we aren't winning games, not enough games to be taken seriously. We brought DJ in, he put up numbers, but it's been decided by the board now that DJ was/is not a winning player. Well what exactly makes Trae a winning player? That ECF appearance is getting further and further in the rear view mirror. This is starting to look like Bradley Beal and Wizards situation. If we have another 35 to 40 win season, that's exactly what it's going to like to everyone but Trae loyalists, who continue singing his praises seemingly no matter what. 

Trae makes players around him better on the offensive end.  Trae is Top 10 in clutch scoring, Top 15 in steals in the clutch, Top 25 in assists.  Trae also has a history of leading a team to winning records.  Since the Hawks ended the tank, they went:

20-21:  41-31 ECF Year

21-22:  43-39 

22-23:  41-41 DJM 1st year 

23-24:  36-46 DJM 2nd year

The team has gotten markedly worse each year DJM was here.  That's not entirely his fault as the FO decided to dump Huerter and dump JC in consecutive off seasons.  They also let Delon Wright leave as DJM was coming in.  But the facts are the facts.  The last time Trae was the lead guy without playing "your turn, my turn" with DJM, the team had a winning record.  The time before that he led them to the ECF.  

I agree with you that if they go out and win 35 games this year, there will be some tough questions to be asked of Trae.  But as of this moment, all we know is Trae has two winning records and playoff appearances (including ECF) on his resume when he's not been matched with an ill-fitting backcourt player.  

We also know that since his rookie year where he was an end of bench player, here are DJM team records:

17-18:  47-35

18-19:  Sat out with acl injury

19-20:  32-39

20-21:  33-39

21-22:  34-48

22-23:  41-41

23-24:  36-46

Again, not all of this falls on DJM.  But no one should be saying that DJM is a winning player.  It's also notable that every rotational player on the Hawks played better offensively without DJ than they did with DJ this season. Every one.  Contrast that with Trae who routinely elevates the offensive games of those on the court with him. 

I understand that defense matter as well.  And we can all agree that DJM as a defensive SG is terrible.  We also know that Trae is not good defensively.  The hope, however, is that putting defensive players around Trae will allow the team to be closer to average or above average defensively and then offensively, we know a Trae led team will be Top 5 or Top 10.  That, on paper and in theory, should result in a winning basketball team.   

 

[JeffS17]

13 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

No superstar has ever done it on their own. Even the bad Lebron teams still had a prime Kyrie and recent (at that time) all star Kevin Love.

This narrative that certain players do it on their own is blatantly wrong. If Lebron was a Hawk, he would have had 85% of this roster traded away so that he could play with (2) other all stars.

Embiid has always played with star talent from Butler, to pre crazy Simmons, Harden, Maxey, now PG. If Trae had that much talent around him and never won anything people would call him a cancer.

Luka had Dirk, Porzingus, Brunson, Kyrie, etc… Again, people say things that sound nice until you look at it and realize it’s flat out not true.

Trae may not be Lebron, but 99.99% of all basketball players can’t live up to that standard. We don’t hold that against other star talents. 

Yeah, for sure.  I think you can tell who the greats are by how their teammates do before and after playing with them.  Guys like JR Smith looked like near all-star talent playing with Lebron.  Steph made Juan Toscano-Anderson look like a valuable asset.  Capela been carried by Harden and Trae, two of the best PnR guards in the past 20 years, made him look like a top tier center.  No one does it by themselves but there are definitely players that elevate their teammates significantly.  Lebron and the bums from the first Cavs stint are just the most egregious example but there are tons more.

3 minutes ago, Afro said:

Embiid has had a super team almost every year after the very beginning of the process and recently had at least a very decent-good supporting cast. 

Same goes for Luka, but not quite the "super team" part like Embiid had. 

 

This is a massive stretch for Luka by the way, but I don't care enough to debate it.  I care just enough to make that dissenting comment.  Maybe that is enough?  I don't know, slow work week.

[Afro]

We can say Trae has his flaws, but "low floor"being one of them is absurd to me. 

The fact he's even gotten those rosters to the playoffs is a testiment to his abilities. 

I'm racking my brain and there really isn't any one else doing that with the kind of roster Trae has had the entire time. 

Like the only other ones to do what Trae has are super duper stars and GOATs. I'm not calling Trae that, but come on. 

Low floor??? Trae has NEVER played with an all star. 99.9% of the dudes he's played with haven't even been remotely close either.