Final_quest Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 31 minutes ago, Afro said: OG makes literally double what hunter does. But again. Hunter makes all of 20% more than market rate AT MOST. You can dislike him. I'm not a huge fan. But acting like he's making 40 million dollars is a bit absurd. Between Capela and Hunter they take up about 25% of the entire payroll. It's too much for guys who you don't want to build a roster and a system around. BTW I think OG is gonna be a contract the Knicks will totally regret. Hunter has gone from about the top 60 salaries to the top 85 or so. That means he is being paid like he's part of a big 3 or at least the 4th best guy on an extremely expensive roster. If he is your third best guy, your top two guys need to be like All NBA type players. But to your point he's not a terrible contract. He's just bad enough where it's hard to find a buyer willing to give you much for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted July 16 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 16 2 minutes ago, Final_quest said: Between Capela and Hunter they take up about 25% of the entire payroll. It's too much for guys who you don't want to build a roster and a system around. BTW I think OG is gonna be a contract the Knicks will totally regret. Hunter has gone from about the top 60 salaries to the top 85 or so. That means he is being paid like he's part of a big 3 or at least the 4th best guy on an extremely expensive roster. If he is your third best guy, your top two guys need to be like All NBA type players. But to your point he's not a terrible contract. He's just bad enough where it's hard to find a buyer willing to give you much for him. I hope you realize that Salary rank will continue to drop each year correct? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 16 Author Moderators Report Share Posted July 16 12 minutes ago, Final_quest said: Between Capela and Hunter they take up about 25% of the entire payroll. It's too much for guys who you don't want to build a roster and a system around. BTW I think OG is gonna be a contract the Knicks will totally regret. Hunter has gone from about the top 60 salaries to the top 85 or so. That means he is being paid like he's part of a big 3 or at least the 4th best guy on an extremely expensive roster. If he is your third best guy, your top two guys need to be like All NBA type players. But to your point he's not a terrible contract. He's just bad enough where it's hard to find a buyer willing to give you much for him. I think you are ignoring that a lot of the best talent in the league is a rookie contracts like Wemby, Chet, etc. I don't think a reasonable person expects the 85th highest salary to be the 85th most valuable player when you have roughly 120 players on rookie contracts in any given season (I'm ignoring the Nikola Jokic type 2nd round outliers). Not all of those rookies are big impact players but you would expect multiple All-Stars or potential All-Stars in most draft classes and you'd expect an All-Star or potential All-Star veteran to earn considerably more than Hunter. I'm saying your expectations are too high for that price point - especially for two-way wings who get paid more than comparable centers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final_quest Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 2 hours ago, AHF said: This is a difference in our perspective. If the team is worse and it risks upsetting the apple cart with Trae, I think there is a point at which paying a premium for a role player is worth it especially if it isn't something that brings flexibility to improve the team but instead is just extra money for ownership. If we start from the idea that ownership is not under any responsibility to pay the tax, I think that fans have a reasonable right to expect ownership to use all other available resources to deliver the best product on the floor. There can be a dialogue around what that means (do you invest in a young improving player so next year you are better versus an established role player with less upside who makes you better this year) but regardless the measurement is around how good a team is on the floor. So a simple Grant Williams for DeAndre Hunter trade where that trade doesn't lead to subsequent moves to improve the team is something fans have every right to complain about if the team is less competitive as a result because the team is non-tax paying whether they deal Hunter for Williams or not. As a fan I expect them to do something like salary dump from Hunter to Williams and then add salary by trading Nance and CC for Ayton if they are going to do a dump trade when already under the tax line. (I'm not commenting on whether Ayton is a good addition but at least in that scenario there is execution to create flexibility by salary dumping and then use that flexibility to add someone you otherwise could not have added without going into the tax.) Just having hypothetical unused flexibility as a fan is worth exactly what the TPE was worth to me last season: Ya'll are so triggered by Tony doing what 80% of the league does. He brought in one of the highest paid coaches. Fans are not smart and they are fickle. A billionaire can't run his company trying to appease people who will be mad every time the wind blows. There's no long term strategy to winning if you frankenstein together guys like Hunter, Capela, Murray, and Trae. At some point you have to let go of mistakes and move forward with a winning strategy. The fans will catch up when the team starts winning. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final_quest Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 3 minutes ago, AHF said: I think you are ignoring that a lot of the best talent in the league is a rookie contracts like Wemby, Chet, etc. I don't think a reasonable person expects the 85th highest salary to be the 85th most valuable player when you have roughly 120 players on rookie contracts in any given season (I'm ignoring the Nikola Jokic type 2nd round outliers). Not all of those rookies are big impact players but you would expect multiple All-Stars or potential All-Stars in most draft classes and you'd expect an All-Star or potential All-Star veteran to earn considerably more than Hunter. I'm saying your expectations are too high for that price point - especially for two-way wings who get paid more than comparable centers, etc. Consider that about 20-25 of the top 85 are extremely overpaid and it kind of evens out. But this conversation is getting really circular. Bottom line is I don't believe the Hawks or the league sees Hunter as worth his contract. So arguing nuance over the top 80-120 is irrelevant in light of both of those. Most evidence points to the league not seeing Hunter as a good value or we would have a bidding war. We have pretty much the opposite of a bidding war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 16 Author Moderators Report Share Posted July 16 13 minutes ago, Final_quest said: Ya'll are so triggered by Tony doing what 80% of the league does. He brought in one of the highest paid coaches. I just made a case for why after you have already avoided paying the tax keeping Hunter might be better than salary dumping him or why focusing on putting the best team on the floor might make sense. What does that have to do with Ressler not paying the tax? Nothing. Why are you bringing it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final_quest Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 15 minutes ago, AHF said: I just made a case for why after you have already avoided paying the tax keeping Hunter might be better than salary dumping him or why focusing on putting the best team on the floor might make sense. What does that have to do with Ressler not paying the tax? Nothing. Why are you bringing it up? I never said tax in my post. Tony has to cut salary tied to losing players and stay as flexible as possible after doing that. He’s acting normal was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted July 16 Author Moderators Report Share Posted July 16 3 minutes ago, Final_quest said: I never said tax in my post. Tony has to cut salary tied to losing players and stay as flexible as possible after doing that. He’s acting normal was my point. Fair enough. Tony Ressler acting normal has never been his biggest strength. I'll agree to disagree that most owners would compromise on the competitiveness of a team when already under the tax at a time when they are trying to convince their biggest star that they are genuinely committed to winning. But I'll also acknowledge he hasn't salary dumped Hunter yet so we'll see what actually happens before I say how I think that reflects on him. Maybe Landry will surprise all of us and pull off an outright winning trade where he simply trades away Hunter for a better and cheaper player. That would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted July 16 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 16 The front office has no control over Trae Young's emotions or desires. We shouldn't be making any decisions to pacify Trae for a single year at the expense of long term, sustainable, team building. I'd argue that even if your goal was retaining Trae, the focus should be getting a sustainable winning program together through his next contract anyways, not just next year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hylndr11 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 2 hours ago, Peoriabird said: The least efficient player in the starting line up last year wasn't Hunter nor Capela. I wasnt talking about on the court I meant with the use of our cap space or assets etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted July 16 Premium Member Report Share Posted July 16 7 minutes ago, hylndr11 said: I wasnt talking about on the court I meant with the use of our cap space or assets etc. Young's salary ain't exactly cap friendly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kg01 Posted July 16 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 16 Can we please trade Hunter. Please? 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HawksNWaffles Posted July 16 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 16 (edited) 8 minutes ago, kg01 said: Can we please trade Hunter. Please? I mean we could .... As long as we don't bring back players like John Doe,Robert Steelflex and Steve Stevens Edited July 16 by HawksNWaffles 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 3 hours ago, macdaddy said: i guess the pelicans want to exercise their team option on Alvarado but sure would have been nice for them to decline it and sign and trade him to us instead of Zeller to complete the deal. That would solve two problems for us. Yessss. Por favor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 28 minutes ago, kg01 said: Can we please trade Hunter. Please? preeeeeaaaachhhh brother kg! 21 minutes ago, HawksNWaffles said: Steve Stevens Brad’s son? F that! Never! Not here maybe in Boston he can Boheim himself possibly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandauwalker Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 A question for the insiders… this off-season seems to have prioritized the long-term more than we thought (potentially at the expense of the short-term). Does anybody have a sense of how Trae processing is this? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABH Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, ryandauwalker said: A question for the insiders… this off-season seems to have prioritized the long-term more than we thought (potentially at the expense of the short-term). Does anybody have a sense of how Trae processing is this? Gone in 2 years...hopefully get another reader b4 the season starts..after 2 months we can trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 I’m going to get some hell no’s on this but I’m going to say it anyways. I would be willing to play 6’8 249 pound Julius Randle at the 5 with this team. He’s very physical and I’ve always loved that about him. He’s not a top tier shooter but he’s capable of knocking down the 3 ball. dont get me wrong id rather have Ayton as my top choice but yeah I don’t hate the idea of Randle at the 5 on this hawks team IF he’s healthy….yeah I said it! this is one of the only ways I can endorse going full small ball. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AUhawksfan Posted July 19 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 19 I'd never take Randle. Not because of size but when has he ever stepped up in the playoffs when it matters? He is super inefficient for someone at his position. I'd rather keep Clint. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_dirt Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 17 hours ago, JTB said: I’m going to get some hell no’s on this but I’m going to say it anyways. I would be willing to play 6’8 249 pound Julius Randle at the 5 with this team. He’s very physical and I’ve always loved that about him. He’s not a top tier shooter but he’s capable of knocking down the 3 ball. dont get me wrong id rather have Ayton as my top choice but yeah I don’t hate the idea of Randle at the 5 on this hawks team IF he’s healthy….yeah I said it! this is one of the only ways I can endorse going full small ball. He’s a hell of a distributor from a forward position. Randle, JJ, Trae with knock down shooters would be dangerous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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