2024-25 Insider Thread

[Final_quest]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:07 PM, JeffS17 said:

Playing hard ball like that shifts the culture over time, too, once a lot of guys in the locker room have had to prove themselves before getting paid.  It's one of the things I respect about Miami's FO.  The big question for me is how much hard ball are we going to be playing when it comes time for Trae's extension.

That is the only concern with playing hardball on every contract negotiation.  How do you create a positive and winning culture and stick it to every player you can during negotiations?  

After the ECF they misread the situation and signed everyone to contracts expressing gratitude and belief that our players will rise to a higher level.  Just because we made that mistake doesn't mean you should over correct and give every guy a shitty contract if you can.  Trae is getting told Jalen is a cornerstone and future star to play with, but then in negotiations you want to take advantage of Jalen's RFA standing and injury history.  You're sending a mixed message to Trae, Jalen, the fanbase, players, and the league.  

Have no idea what the behind the scene conversations are, but it's not as simple as sign every guy to as low of a number as you can because you are awesome at negotiations.  That's not how you want your employer to treat you.  Do we want the reputation of being that team around the league?

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

That is the only concern with playing hardball on every contract negotiation.  How do you create a positive and winning culture and stick it to every player you can during negotiations?  

After the ECF they misread the situation and signed everyone to contracts expressing gratitude and belief that our players will rise to a higher level.  Just because we made that mistake doesn't mean you should over correct and give every guy a shitty contract if you can.  Trae is getting told Jalen is a cornerstone and future star to play with, but then in negotiations you want to take advantage of Jalen's RFA standing and injury history.  You're sending a mixed message to Trae, Jalen, the fanbase, players, and the league.  

Have no idea what the behind the scene conversations are, but it's not as simple as sign every guy to as low of a number as you can because you are awesome at negotiations.  That's not how you want your employer to treat you.  Do we want the reputation of being that team around the league?

Yes, of course there's a ton of nuance-- my point was really that it will be interesting if they take the same approach with Trae as they are others.  The locker room culture divides happens when one player is getting special treatment, imo.  So far they've signed team friendly or reasonable deals that were not based on potential for DJ and OO.  JJ is next up.  Trae and Dyson are extension eligible next offseason.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

That is the only concern with playing hardball on every contract negotiation.  How do you create a positive and winning culture and stick it to every player you can during negotiations?  

After the ECF they misread the situation and signed everyone to contracts expressing gratitude and belief that our players will rise to a higher level.  Just because we made that mistake doesn't mean you should over correct and give every guy a shitty contract if you can.  Trae is getting told Jalen is a cornerstone and future star to play with, but then in negotiations you want to take advantage of Jalen's RFA standing and injury history.  You're sending a mixed message to Trae, Jalen, the fanbase, players, and the league.  

Have no idea what the behind the scene conversations are, but it's not as simple as sign every guy to as low of a number as you can because you are awesome at negotiations.  That's not how you want your employer to treat you.  Do we want the reputation of being that team around the league?

The situation is just very different for UFAs and RFAs and what constitutes "hardball" for RFAs is different than for UFAs.  With RFAs you can send a very clear message to the fans that you will absolutely keep this player.  Sending that message doubles as a warning to the rest of the league not to bid on them in RFA because you will match and actually helps you in negotiations because teams hate having money tied up during FA when they aren't even going to end up with the player.  You can then sign the player to a deal that is good for the team or you wait until their FA offseason.

With an UFA, you need to be much more aware that they can simply walk away and that other teams will bid on them with zero fear because if they strike a deal it is done.  

Good teams already do this and they don't suffer reputational damage from it.  And you still can get deals done like OO's deal last summer.  It doesn't mean that you now are going to send every RFA out to the market to get offers from other teams but you can't be afraid of that if the player isn't being reasonable.  If anything, we cultivated a reputation as a pushover in negotiations in recent years which is bad in and of itself.  

[JayBirdHawk]

 

$60 mil average. 

 

[HawksNWaffles]

31 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

$60 mil average. 

 

60mil for consistently getting to the 2nd round is crazy. 

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, HawksNWaffles said:

60mil for consistently getting to the 2nd round is crazy. 

What leverage does Philly have? Trade him?

[JeffS17]

These contracts are so insane now.  I know the ship has sailed at this point and it's pure fantasy, but man do I wish we went down a path of owners making less, players making less, but also ticket prices didn't sky rocket and networks weren't shoving gambling ads down my throat 24/7, during free throws, every 30 second timeout, etc.  The product has gone downhill badly in the Silver era as a result of maximizing the gross amount of TV deals, which has led to the product degradation.  In my fantasy world, the NBA puts guard rails on the TV contracts to protect the product (i.e no ads during free throws, coverage has to start before the ball is inbounded, etc) even if it means a little less $ on the TV deal.  

[AHF]

For me, I have to think about the contracts in terms of % of the cap.  As @JeffS17 points out, it is the escalating total dollars that lead to the escalating contracts given the way the CBA defines the total pool of money for players and the value of max contracts.  

Just imagine what these would be like if there wasn't a cap on maximum contracts.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

gambling ads down my throat 24/7, during free throws, every 30 second timeout, etc. 

Some possible help coming on this:

 

The NFL and NBA see positives and negatives in a federal sports betting bill introduced in Congress last week that includes advertising restrictions and prohibitions on live wagering, according to sources familiar with the leagues’ positions. The Supporting Affordability and Fairness with Every Bet Act — or SAFE Bet Act — would prohibit sportsbook advertising from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. and during live sports broadcasts. It would also ban bets on individual college athletes and in-game wagers on professional or college sports, something the NCAA has been lobbying for in states.

 

– via ESPN

 Law

 

 

The league sources expect a lengthy legislative process with many adjustments to the SAFE Bet Act. The proposed ban on sportsbook advertising raised eyebrows at the leagues, according to sources.

 

– via ESPN

 Law

 

 

The elimination of live betting — an increasingly popular form of wagering that takes place during games — is also likely to be a sticking point for the NFL and NBA and sportsbooks, according to the sources. An NFL source told ESPN that the league is appreciative of legislative interest, especially any provisions in the SAFE Bet Act designed to help protect the integrity of the league and help combat game manipulation.

 

– via ESPN

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

ticket prices didn't sky rocket

This is the most problematic for me. I miss the $47 tickets in section 116 (now 119)....now you'd be lucky to get tickets under $90 in the 100 sections.

[bird_dirt]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

$60 mil average. 

 

That’s an average of over one million per game!

[kg01]

33 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

That’s an average of over one million per game!

Hey, leave the maths to me, bd.

You're forgetting to adjust for all the games he's gonna miss injured, just plain sitting, or avoiding playing Jokic in Denver.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Hey, leave the maths to me, bd.

You're forgetting to adjust for all the games he's gonna miss injured, just plain sitting, or avoiding playing Jokic in Denver.

Bird Dirt has to be adjusting for things like that if he is saying it is over $1M per game.  5 seasons of games is 410 regular season games.  To be $1M per game, the contract would need to be $410M rather than $301M.  But if you look at his average of 54 games played a season then you are talking more than $1M per game.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

20 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

….. what? Lol

Is he being serious? He needs help if so.

[Atlantaholic]

On 9/21/2024 at 10:40 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Is Marvin even in the league still?

[AHF]

Wait - that is a recent post?!?  I thought that was from several years ago.  That is crazy.

[JeffS17]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Wait - that is a recent post?!?  I thought that was from several years ago.  That is crazy.

Yeah it is crazy… hes trying to reframe it as Doncic v Fox, which Doncic obv is better, but hes also completely ignoring the bust of a pick.  Sac wouldnt be a laughing stock if they at least drafted JJJ, probably would have a really nice team right now

[kg01]

On 9/21/2024 at 12:40 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Reporter fail.  Follow up question had to be for his thoughts on Sam Bowie...