2024-25 Insider Thread

[therealist]

38 minutes ago, ShayD said:

Dejounte Murray was 531th defensive rating. Is he better than Trae?

no, because you have to account for both offensive AND defensive contributions. that's my point.

if someone is really really good at offense and really really bad at defense, that suggests they're in between as a whole.

it's homerism emotion to suggest trae is elite and flawless. no one in the league values trae as much as emotional trae stans. the insiders tell you that, the media tells you that, the players tell you that, the all-star voting process tells you that. sometimes you gotta get out of your feels, identify the facts, and apply a little intuition to come to a reasonable conclusion. i like trae's game, but i definitely think he's overpaid. undersized, ball-dominant point guards who are traffic cones on defense don't win NBA titles as the best players on their team. it's just a fact

[therealist]

35 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trae has some drawbacks. Struggles on defense, can't play off the ball, inefficient at times. Teams look at those flaws and it diminishes his value. 

how dare you say something realistically critical of absolute greatest point guard of all time

/sarcasm

[Afro]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

 

There are a lot of factors.  You really think every player in the league's image is solely up to their team's marketing department?  Not really wanting to know your answer.  I'll save the time, "agree to disagree."

Hate on.  

 

I'll give it to you anyway lol. 

There are a lot of factors. Almost no other player in the league deals with the treatment Trae does. That's just a fact.

But to the point. At least half of Traes reputation has been made up from BS media narratives. 100% yes, those narratives could have at the very least been tamped down by this FO/team saying something to the contrary. 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, therealist said:

how dare you say something realistically critical of absolute greatest point guard of all time

/sarcasm

Don't yall haters know that everybody else has been the problem with the teams.  Reminds me of when J Cutler was traded to Chicago.  they fired everyone over 7 years before they realized the real problem.

[ShayD]

11 minutes ago, therealist said:

no, because you have to account for both offensive AND defensive contributions. that's my point.

if someone is really really good at offense and really really bad at defense, that suggests they're in between as a whole.

it's homerism emotion to suggest trae is elite and flawless. no one in the league values trae as much as emotional trae stans. the insiders tell you that, the media tells you that, the players tell you that, the all-star voting process tells you that. sometimes you gotta get out of your feels, identify the facts, and apply a little intuition to come to a reasonable conclusion. i like trae's game, but i definitely think he's overpaid. undersized, ball-dominant point guards who are traffic cones on defense don't win NBA titles as the best players on their team. it's just a fact

I'm not saying Trae doesn't have drawbacks, but the guy is an Allstar caliber player and was even an Allstar this past season. GMs and some people are complaining about his contract. What are allstar players supposed to be making? When you have Vanvleet making 40 mil, OG making 40mil, Quickley making 35 mil, Barnes making 40 etc. Or is Trae overrated and not an Allstar player now? He is a role player now?

 

Edit: IT doesn't matter whether you view him as having empty stats. He still gets voted into allstar games and all star players make allstar money and GMs shouldn't complain when it time to trade for them. Or is Franz worth this money?

 

Edited July 5 by ShayD

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, therealist said:

no, because you have to account for both offensive AND defensive contributions. that's my point.

if someone is really really good at offense and really really bad at defense, that suggests they're in between as a whole.

it's homerism emotion to suggest trae is elite and flawless. no one in the league values trae as much as emotional trae stans. the insiders tell you that, the media tells you that, the players tell you that, the all-star voting process tells you that. sometimes you gotta get out of your feels, identify the facts, and apply a little intuition to come to a reasonable conclusion. i like trae's game, but i definitely think he's overpaid. undersized, ball-dominant point guards who are traffic cones on defense don't win NBA titles as the best players on their team. it's just a fact

Great post, sums up my feelings as well— one of my all-time favorite players but Im not blinded by his glaring weaknesses, that unfortunately are innate to his size/genetics.
 

And the homerism when it comes to Trae, specifically, truly is off the charts here.  Half the forum squirms at an inkling of criticism.  Trae is staring down a potential 35% of the cap contract, so the idea most front offices aren't ready to sign up for that is pretty intuitive to me.  Hes probably not a shoe-in for that type of money if you want to contend, even if he is a great player.  You need a lot of cap space to pair him with elite defenders, shooting, and bigs with skills and size.  All of these things can be true.  And theres still a chance we get it done in Atlanta, as we are moving in that direction this offseason.  

[JeffS17]

Just now, ShayD said:

I'm not saying Trae doesn't have drawbacks, but the guy is an Allstar caliber player and was even an Allstar this past season. GMs and some people are complaining about his contract. What are allstar players supposed to be making? When you have Vanvleet making 40 mil, OG making 40mil, Quickley making 35 mil, Barnes making 40 etc. Or is Trae overrated and not an Allstar player now? He is a role player now?

Its his next contract negotiation they dont want to deal with.  You cant trade for a player like Trae as a rental.

[Spud2nique]

Get the big feller Ayton! Gitteeeeeemmm! 

[Afro]

Here's the thing. Y'all keep talking about salary.....

Franz Wagner just signed for 45 million a year....

Quickley signed for 35/year

And you're telling me Trae at 43 is some huge problem? 

 

Sure, you can tell me that it's about what the next deal will cost, but those people will also tell me that nobody wants Trae at 45 million, so exactly who is going to be paying him more than that in 2 years? Cause those things are at odds with eachother.

Edited July 5 by Afro

[ShayD]

Franz Wagner cannot make 3s and playing SF and is making 40mil+ and people are complaining about a proven allstar's contract.

[therealist]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Great post, sums up my feelings as well— one of my all-time favorite players but Im not blinded by his glaring weaknesses, that unfortunately are innate to his size/genetics.
 

And the homerism when it comes to Trae, specifically, truly is off the charts here.  Half the forum squirms at an inkling of criticism.  Trae is staring down a potential 35% of the cap contract, so the idea most front offices aren't ready to sign up for that is pretty intuitive to me.  Hes probably not a shoe-in for that type of money if you want to contend, even if he is a great player.  You need a lot of cap space to pair him with elite defenders, shooting, and bigs with skills and size.  All of these things can be true.  And theres still a chance we get it done in Atlanta, as we are moving in that direction this offseason.  

you and i are on the same page. i love watching trae play basketball. i just refuse to ignore his flaws

[Afro]

6 minutes ago, ShayD said:

Franz Wagner cannot make 3s and playing SF and is making 40mil+ and people are complaining about a proven allstar's contract.

deleted, I got a bad tweet saying it was 5/270 lol. 

Edited July 5 by Afro

[Final_quest]

Probably true that Trae fans have an unrealistic view, but his haters are completely blind.  

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, ShayD said:

Franz Wagner cannot make 3s and playing SF and is making 40mil+ and people are complaining about a proven allstar's contract.

If Trae made $1/year these same 'people' would have the same complaints.  The funny part is they think they're fooling the rest of us. 

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, Afro said:

Here's the thing. Y'all keep talking about salary.....

Franz Wagner just signed for 45 million a year....

5yr/$270 - that's $54 average per year

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

Probably true that Trae fans have an unrealistic view, but his haters are completely blind.  

School em, FQ. 

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

5yr/$270 - that's $54 average per year

"I was told there would be no maths." - @Afro 

[Afro]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

5yr/$270 - that's $54 average per year

Boy, I am confused lol. 

I originally saw Shams saying 5/270. Everywhere else Ive seen 5/224. 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Since defensive rating was mentioned regarding Trae, I found Ayton finished with a better defensive rating than Clint and OO. And Ingram finished with a better defensive rating than our entire team!

This shouldn’t be surprising honestly.

The knock on Aytons defense is laughable. Dude was a proven two way center once cp3 got there but when they added KD things went south for Ayton.

Clint has truly only given us 1 great full season of defense and that was the ECF run. Every other good to great defense moments from Clint has been half of a season.

 

OO got abused in Quinn’s system in the beginning! But he found his grove like middle of second half seem like.

 

if the hawks get Ayton, he will prove that he’s worth the money. I can’t say that enough! Man the fit is so obvious!

[Afro]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

School em, FQ. 

"I was told there would be no maths." - @Afro 

I was told that NBA media knew wtf they were talking about, but this is definitely par for the course lol. 

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, ShayD said:

Franz Wagner cannot make 3s and playing SF and is making 40mil+ and people are complaining about a proven allstar's contract.

Say it louder for the people in the back!

 

wagner isn’t better then Ayton either!