2024-25 Insider Thread

[kg01]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Look after 8, everyone else really did nothing or got worse. Most teams behind us or the Bulls are tanking for 2025. 

Oh man, me and hotSupes in agreement?  I'm scared.

I also think some of the top-8 didn't really get better either.

[deester11]

The only thing saving this team is the foul stench of East basketball. This team lives and dies on "IF.”  Should change the team logo to What if?

[AHF]

10 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I mean, you said it yourself... there's really nothing to be upset about here.  And it's not really stupidity if it's what it took to get the deal done, and I'm not excusing anything because there's nothing to be "excused".  Your entire framing is simply wild, given neither of us know what conversations took place in the negotiations.  Also, these protections were likely already in place, just not reported initially because they're so inconsequential.

The reality is you and others here have made up your mind on Landry, and literally any move he makes, will be nitpicked to hell and back for reasons to crap on it.  And fantasy deals he doesn't make are also used to shit on him.  You guys treat Landry with the same heavily biased, negative, lens that many here view Trae through.  Your outrage on this completely inconsequential protection is the equivalent of people logging in here to bash Trae for having a single bad turnover in a game we won.  

You don’t see a problem with leaving money on the table?  That is the problem.  
 

The way this trade was finalized is beyond stupid:

(1) We didn’t need to take Zeller at all.  NO traded Big V for no salary.  Combine these deals and no need for the Hawks to take back garbage.  Our roster is worse for taking taking Mr. Glass.  There was no need for it but we are too dumb or too bad at negotiating to make it happen.

(2) Having agreed to take Zeller, we deserve to be paid for that.  He is a toxic contract.  We need useful players on the roster and very little money to make it happen. Bruno is better than Zeller (and certainly more available) and would be cheaper to give us more money for other players. 
 

So what did we get paid?  Nothing.  Apparently to you, making the deal worse for us for something that only benefits NO should not cost them anything.  This is weak.  You don’t do things for free in the NBA.

(3) Worse than doing something for free, we actually let them add more protections to an already heavily protected pick.  How weak a negotiator must you be to concede on this point?  The trade obviously makes NO much better next year and he is already posting online in Pelicans gear.  Their fan base is hyped - much more so than ours.  Do you really think NO walks away over that protection?  If not, then WTF would you concede on that point?  
 

In summary, in a situation where the Hawks should have gotten more value out of the deal they accepted a version of the deal that was worse in two ways. You can certainly claim this will end up being inconsequential.  We probably won’t know if the extra protection prevents us from making a deal or not so it will ultimately be speculation but what you can’t argue is that the deal is actually worse for us in a position where we had the leverage.

[Afro]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

  

For all the snark about why we helped the Pels make that trade...they can't make the trade unless we did that. I mentioned this before: the pelicans owner, the widow, refuses point blank to pay the LT. Ressler at least pretends he will pay it. Widow Benson will not let them pay it ever. 

Why is this part written like it's our problem? They got by far the best asset in the deal and we're desperate to get this deal done so we take the worst piece for nothing. This feels extremely backwards. Why are we always the ones always coming from a place of desperation? Even when NOP is the one with the problem. 

Edited July 7 by Afro

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

You don’t see a problem with leaving money on the table?  That is the problem.  
 

The way this trade was finalized is beyond stupid:

(1) We didn’t need to take Zeller at all.  NO traded Big V for no salary.  Combine these deals and no need for the Hawks to take back garbage.  Our roster is worse for taking taking Mr. Glass.  There was no need for it but we are too dumb or too bad at negotiating to make it happen.

(2) Having agreed to take Zeller, we deserve to be paid for that.  He is a toxic contract.  We need useful players on the roster and very little money to make it happen. Bruno is better than Zeller (and certainly more available) and would be cheaper to give us more money for other players. 
 

So what did we get paid?  Nothing.  Apparently to you, making the deal worse for us for something that only benefits NO should not cost them anything.  This is weak.  You don’t do things for free in the NBA.

(3) Worse than doing something for free, we actually let them add more protections to an already heavily protected pick.  How weak a negotiator must you be to concede on this point?  The trade obviously makes NO much better next year and he is already posting online in Pelicans gear.  Their fan base is hyped - much more so than ours.  Do you really think NO walks away over that protection?  If not, then WTF would you concede on that point?  
 

In summary, in a situation where the Hawks should have gotten more value out of the deal they accepted a version of the deal that was worse in two ways. You can certainly claim this will end up being inconsequential.  We probably won’t know if the extra protection prevents us from making a deal or not so it will ultimately be speculation but what you can’t argue is that the deal is actually worse for us in a position where we had the leverage.

The Zellar f-up also keeps Vit off the team . . . or at least forces him to take another 2-way deal.

[AHF]

To be clear, I wasn’t negative on Landry until he did a series of stupid things.  Last year’s half measure roster soured me some.  What is the point of playing for the playoffs all year and carrying massive and obvious holes on the roster all year?  But whatever.  This was the most consequential offseason in Hawks history. Time for some home runs.  

Then Fields failed to leverage the #1 pick when the Wizards were all in on Sarr and he was the #1 prospect.  Ugh.  Letting them get their guy for free?  Obviously we did not even try to leverage them.  Had we done so there was an easy path which involved making it very clear we would draft Sarr and they would need to move up if they wanted him.  They even had an obvious asset to use in such a trade.  But we made it known we would not be taking Sarr.  Why leave money on the table?  Whatever.

Now the Murray trade.  I’ve spelled out why that one wasn’t great to start with and finished even worse.

For the record, I still am not 100% negative on Fields.  Risacher and Daniels could end up being very good.  I am 100% convinced however that he is a very weak negotiator.  He gets what he wants and is content with that so that he doesn’t exercise leverage to maximize return.  There were obvious things we should have gained from this offseason that he meekly conceded.  That makes me angry as a fan.  We can’t afford to leave money on the table.

[Afro]

41 minutes ago, deester11 said:

The only thing saving this team is the foul stench of East basketball. This team lives and dies on "IF.”  Should change the team logo to What if?

There are only two roster spots on the entire team that are stable and known. Bogi and Trae.

That is it. Everyone else, outside of inconsequential EOB guys, is at best a decent sized question mark and a giant "hope for the best" at worst. 

We all know DJM was probably an addition by subtraction but it is absolutely hilarious that we're about to go into an season where we had the #1 pick and a DJM trade and the roster got.... Worse. Results are still TBD like we've all said, but the actual talent is worse. No DJM, year older vets, our only real additions are kids, Zeller took Vits spot, etc, etc. 

Edited July 7 by Afro

[gurpilo]

Well I think Boston, Milwaukee, NY and Cleveland are much better. 

Orlando need to consolidate his improvement, they lack a good PG  but added KCP that is a real upgrade. Really good defensive team with a young core of Wagner, Banchero and Suggs and some good rotation players, we'll see.

After that I see a group of teams with some questionmarks that might have ups and down depending on injuries. Philadelphia, Indiana, Miami. I see Atlanta on that group.

Chicago and BKN really got worst although Giddey move might be underrated.

Charlotte, Wizards, Pistons improved a bit, I don't think is enough for playoff yet.

Toronto intrigues me, they look good on paper, they might be a surprise on the East.

[SalvorMallow]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Missed this ^ - from DJ's salary.

Since we took all the players from NOP into the JC TPE.

Is the TPE rule you can't take players back into both the TPE and the player you're sending outs salary at the same time? 

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The Zellar f-up also keeps Vit off the team . . . or at least forces him to take another 2-way deal.

I don't think Vit is eligible for another two-way.  

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

To be clear, I wasn’t negative on Landry until he did a series of stupid things.  Last year’s half measure roster soured me some.  What is the point of playing for the playoffs all year and carrying massive and obvious holes on the roster all year?  But whatever.  This was the most consequential offseason in Hawks history. Time for some home runs.  

Then Fields failed to leverage the #1 pick when the Wizards were all in on Sarr and he was the #1 prospect.  Ugh.  Letting them get their guy for free?  Obviously we did not even try to leverage them.  Had we done so there was an easy path which involved making it very clear we would draft Sarr and they would need to move up if they wanted him.  They even had an obvious asset to use in such a trade.  But we made it known we would not be taking Sarr.  Why leave money on the table?  Whatever.

Now the Murray trade.  I’ve spelled out why that one wasn’t great to start with and finished even worse.

For the record, I still am not 100% negative on Fields.  Risacher and Daniels could end up being very good.  I am 100% convinced however that he is a very weak negotiator.  He gets what he wants and is content with that so that he doesn’t exercise leverage to maximize return.  There were obvious things we should have gained from this offseason that he meekly conceded.  That makes me angry as a fan.  We can’t afford to leave money on the table.

This is why nepo-hires suck.  I truly believe the rest of the league is laughing at us.  There's a reason why everybody wants to trade for our players.  They know they're gonna win the deal.

[AHF]

6 hours ago, Sothron said:

 

For all the snark about why we helped the Pels make that trade...they can't make the trade unless we did that. I mentioned this before: the pelicans owner, the widow, refuses point blank to pay the LT. Ressler at least pretends he will pay it. Widow Benson will not let them pay it ever. 

I would love to hear Fields explain why they can’t do a 3 way deal without us having take Zeller.  V to the Wizards makes the deal legal.  B*** s**** it could not have been done otherwise.

Would not have even changed anything for Washington or the Pels.

But let’s assume that it couldn’t have been done.  Guess what that should mean?  Leverage for us.  Remove the worst of and just give us the MIL pick.  Give us two seconds to facilitate this at our expense.  Hell, give us one second.  
 

It also could have been done without us giving up more protection on the 2027 pick.  None of this was required to make the deal done as is.  Could have and should have been better.

(Frustration is at Ressler / Fields whoever is making the calls.  Not at Sothron or others who graciously share info with us.)

[kg01]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't think Vit is eligible for another two-way.  

Heh, so it's even worse then?  Zeller's useless arse means we can't keep Vit?

Even after stringing him along.  Holding him out of the play-in as if he was part of our plan, etc. 

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

Is the TPE rule you can't take players back into both the TPE and the player you're sending outs salary at the same time? 

We could have just done a straight DJ for NOP players swap and be even Stevens and let the JC TPE expire. No new TPE

[AHF]

5 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Maybe the original protection was top 10 before NOP needed to add Zeller?  

Do you really want me to assume he made an even worse deal in the first place.  This isn’t the great hypothetical for Landry you think it is.  

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Heh, so it's even worse then?  Zeller's useless arse means we can't keep Vit?

Even after stringing him along.  Holding him out of the play-in as if he was part of our plan, etc. 

Yeeep.

I do think Zeller will be cut. Or find a team to send us a very fake 2nd.

[Afro]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Do you really want me to assume he made an even worse deal in the first place.  This isn’t the great hypothetical for Landry you think it is.  

After seeing NO bungle DJMs trade kicker... 

This makes me think they made the first deal with the 27 pick and then realized after the fact they had zero chance to keep their team together even a little bit in 3 years. So they panicked to put more protections on the pick and.... Landry obliged for some effin reason. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And no @Sothron, no one here is mad at the info that you provide.  We just want the front office to come through on some of these rumors.  Hell, at least one of these big rumors.

100%.  My frustration is 100% at Landry and Ressler.  Appreciate you guys sharing. 
 

Hearing excuses is like lipstick on a pig.  Not trying to shoot the messenger.  It is Landry’s BS if he is claiming the deal could not have been legally completed in light of NO’s moves this offseason without including Zeller and adding protections to the 2027 pick.

[Final_quest]

47 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That said, I'll wait and see how this all develops, we aren't in a bad financial situation. The books for the 1st time in awhile look clean. 

This small detail means nothing to most people, but it’s been a big factor on why we haven’t improved over the past couple years.  We’ve been starting each season with a .500 team that has a huge payroll and act shocked and disgusted when no talent is added.  

[SalvorMallow]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We could have just done a straight DJ for NOP players swap and be even Stevens and let the JC TPE expire.

Gotcha thanks. I'm trying to figure out how the TPE restrictions work because I always heard you couldn't combine it with a player in a trade, but obviously it's more nuanced than that. 

Hypothetically, could we have taken in enough salary to fill the TPE then even more into DJs salary in on trade? Or if not that, what is the restriction on TPE usage? 

 

Appreciate you sharing your knowledge