2024-25 Insider Thread

[RandomFan]

This thread has turned into a whole bunch of this: 

You're better than this Squawk, act like it.

[JeffS17]

Just now, AtLaS said:

Fair enough, we don't know the exact and final specifics of the trade prior to today, but I will tell you this, the optics look really bad.

It looks as if NO made us take on an additional bad salary + added protection at the last minute, why the hell would we agree to that?

Presumably to get the deal done— the salary had to be included.  The protections are meaningless and do not change the overall value by any material amount.  Dont let the order of the reporting on full details influence your judgement of the deal as a whole.  Its emotional hand wringing to give those protections more than two seconds of thought.

For all we know, an iteration of the deal could have been the Pels ‘25 pick and we  negotiated it to be the Lakers ‘25 pick in exchange for protection on the ‘27 pick.  Its easy to fabricate scenarios and give praise or criticism based on them.  The only thing to judge is how we like our situation before v after.  I think we came out ahead.  

[deester11]

5 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

This thread has turned into a whole bunch of this: 

You're better than this Squawk, act like it.

No. No we are not better than this. I want to see more!

[Bonzaii58]

2 hours ago, BangHolman said:

I don't think anyone is mad at the insiders for sharing what they hear.

We're upset with the FO for coming up short every off-season and deadline. The frustration is with them, not you. This was the most important off-season for the Hawks and were walking away with Dyson and Nance as our "win now" players as of now. Is that enough o keep Trae. He looks completely disengaged on every social media platform already.

I completely agree. And I’ve reframed from posting just because it’s just been frustrating and difficult to put into words. I’m not expecting the hawks to make any major moves. Unless they make a move that comes completely out of no where (like when they traded for DJ - that was unexpected for some) then I just don’t see them doing anything else significant and fully expect them to run it back with Capela and or Hunter on the roster. 
 

I don’t imagine Trae is excited by any of this. How could he be? Yes there’s more length and defensive players around him but we’re all just hoping it works out. We hope JJ has another great year and plays at an all star level. We hope our 1st round pick gets meaningful minutes and contributes in a way to help us compete. 
 

I don’t even know what we hope for Hunter / Capela. Maybe just good health? Which reminds me, Trae sure enough better stay healthy otherwise the whole season is a wrap because who is our backup PG? We couldn’t even pick up Delon for 3M or whatever he was signed for. 
 

Here’s to hoping Bogi’s knees hold us and seeing what the young guys give us. I’m starting to wonder if the FO wants Trae to improve his value and then ask out at the deadline? He’ll run the show this year and with no all star next to him I’m sure he’ll put up big stats this year. I know this probably feels like a negative post but it’s just where I’m at right now as a fan. I see no proof that our FO wants to seriously compete at a high level. At this rate, we could have gone ahead and gotten Ingram in the Murray trade. What’s the worst that could happen? 

[AtLaS]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Presumably to get the deal done— the salary had to be included.  The protections are meaningless and do not change the overall value by any material amount.  Dont let the order of the reporting on full details influence your judgement of the deal as a whole.  Its emotional hand wringing to give those protections more than two seconds of thought.

For all we know, an iteration of the deal could have been the Pels ‘25 pick and we  negotiated it to be the Lakers ‘25 pick in exchange for protection on the ‘27 pick.  Its easy to fabricate scenarios and give praise or criticism based on them.  The only thing to judge is how we like our situation before v after.  I think we came out ahead.  

I disagree that it doesn't matter.  It sends a message that Landry is weak and can be pushed around in negotiations.  

If your point is correct that perhaps this was always the initial deal from the get go, then Landry or someone needs to come out and say that to ease our concerns.  Because this gives vibes that he will just fold at the negotiation table in the future.  After a deal was agreed upon, he would still allow the opposing team to add additional protection (even if unlikely to matter)? 

There is a reason GMs like Ainge and Ujiri get the credit as tough negotiators and won't get pushed around.

[ShayD]

16 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Presumably to get the deal done— the salary had to be included.  The protections are meaningless and do not change the overall value by any material amount.  Dont let the order of the reporting on full details influence your judgement of the deal as a whole.  Its emotional hand wringing to give those protections more than two seconds of thought.

For all we know, an iteration of the deal could have been the Pels ‘25 pick and we  negotiated it to be the Lakers ‘25 pick in exchange for protection on the ‘27 pick.  Its easy to fabricate scenarios and give praise or criticism based on them.  The only thing to judge is how we like our situation before v after.  I think we came out ahead.  

I could almost guarantee that Zeller was not supposed to be in the deal initially. Everything went to shit when Murray did not waive his trade kicker. NO probably did not structure this deal with the extra 3mil on Murrays contract, I doubt that. They probably also wanted Hawks to take on Ingram, but when they showed no interest they had to scramble to get the deal done (Adding both Zeller and EJ Liddell). 

Now the hawks are the one stuck with the useless 3mil of dead salary and will also have to pay Murray extra 3mil/year for the trade kicker. Double whammy. Overall the FO are not good negotiators and it is known around the league, other GMs just know the Hawks FO will bend over to almost any deal.

 

Edited July 7 by ShayD

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Literally everyone here is aware of our cap situation.  It's a 'reason' but not an excuse, imho.

It's not our jobs as fans to depress our expectations because they botched the cap sheet.  They have to do and be better.  Not fair or easy, but that's the job.

Everyone?  I see people who by their words demonstrate that they are either unaware or don’t understand.

To your second point, having a cleaner cap sheet with a viable path to long term improvement is the best thing Landry has actually done.  The short term upper echelon talent acquisition is where he has missed the mark so far.

[Hawkmoor]

And for the folks who want to trade Hunter.  Look at that roster.  Hunter is a gold nugget when you look at the entirety of that roster.  How the Hawks managed to get WORST in a off season in which they had the number 1 pick in the draft for the first time in 50 years is just down right amazing.

[Afro]

28 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Presumably to get the deal done— the salary had to be included.  The protections are meaningless and do not change the overall value by any material amount.  Dont let the order of the reporting on full details influence your judgement of the deal as a whole.  Its emotional hand wringing to give those protections more than two seconds of thought.

For all we know, an iteration of the deal could have been the Pels ‘25 pick and we  negotiated it to be the Lakers ‘25 pick in exchange for protection on the ‘27 pick.  Its easy to fabricate scenarios and give praise or criticism based on them.  The only thing to judge is how we like our situation before v after.  I think we came out ahead.  

Meaningless? Come on now. 

[JeffS17]

13 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

I disagree that it doesn't matter.  It sends a message that Landry is weak and can be pushed around in negotiations.  

If your point is correct that perhaps this was always the initial deal from the get go, then Landry or someone needs to come out and say that to ease our concerns.  Because this gives vibes that he will just fold at the negotiation table in the future.  After a deal was agreed upon, he would still allow the opposing team to add additional protection (even if unlikely to matter)? 

There is a reason GMs like Ainge and Ujiri get the credit as tough negotiators and won't get pushed around.

I dont care to debate a bunch of unknowns or “optics” discussions based on reporting.  Other front offices are not judging Landry based on the order of tweets by reporters reporting out deal structures.  Theyre judging him by their 1on1 interactions with him and what he brings to them for trade structures, etc.  and no amount of optic management to the fans will sway you guys.  If he did go down this path, the narrative would likely shift to him looking weak and insecure. Hed be accused of trying to cover up mistakes he didnt even make.  Theres no winning with nost of you and thats fine.

The reason I even post in opposition to the Landry-hating circle jerk, is because there are a lot of Hawks fans on this forum, and many of them are likely feeling dejected and pessimistic based on the general sentiment on this board, and there is actually good reason to be optimistic right now.  So for those that want a logical and rational narrative that supports being excited about our squad, I’ve laid it out.  And its a more justified position than the doom and gloom agenda around our FO that is based on bad faith interpretations and a broader agenda against Ressler and the FO.

[Vol4ever]

34 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

And for the folks who want to trade Hunter.  Look at that roster.  Hunter is a gold nugget when you look at the entirety of that roster.  How the Hawks managed to get WORST in a off season in which they had the number 1 pick in the draft for the first time in 50 years is just down right amazing.

I know,  unbelievable!.  Pisses me off 

[Final_quest]

12 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I dont care to debate a bunch of unknowns or “optics” discussions based on reporting.  Other front offices are not judging Landry based on the order of tweets by reporters reporting out deal structures.  Theyre judging him by their 1on1 interactions with him and what he brings to them for trade structures, etc.  and no amount of optic management to the fans will sway you guys.  If he did go down this path, the narrative would likely shift to him looking weak and insecure. Hed be accused of trying to cover up mistakes he didnt even make.  Theres no winning with nost of you and thats fine.

The reason I even post in opposition to the Landry-hating circle jerk, is because there are a lot of Hawks fans on this forum, and many of them are likely feeling dejected and pessimistic based on the general sentiment on this board, and there is actually good reason to be optimistic right now.  So for those that want a logical and rational narrative that supports being excited about our squad, I’ve laid it out.  And it’s a more justified position than the doom and gloom agenda around our FO that is based on bad faith interpretations and a broader agenda against Ressler and the FO.

We have a surge of negotiation and PR experts on here who know how to discern something as important as a pick protection that will never materialize.  Every GM in the league is circling Landry like a vulture after this.  Sure.  
I’m OK with being critical, but it’s starting to get completely out of touch with reality.  

[Final_quest]

38 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

And for the folks who want to trade Hunter.  Look at that roster.  Hunter is a gold nugget when you look at the entirety of that roster.  How the Hawks managed to get WORST in an off season in which they had the number 1 pick in the draft for the first time in 50 years is just down right amazing.

We’ll see if we are worse.  We may have solved our main problem POA defense.  

Hunter is an issue because he seems like he’s kind of a misfit in Quin’s system.  Not very fluid with his read and react ability.  He has a long and expensive contract for a guy who might be a poor fit.  

[RedDawg#8]

42 minutes ago, ShayD said:

I could almost guarantee that Zeller was not supposed to be in the deal initially. Everything went to shit when Murray did not waive his trade kicker. NO probably did not structure this deal with the extra 3mil on Murrays contract, I doubt that. They probably also wanted Hawks to take on Ingram, but when they showed no interest they had to scramble to get the deal done (Adding both Zeller and EJ Liddell). 

Now the hawks are the one stuck with the useless 3mil of dead salary and will also have to pay Murray extra 3mil/year for the trade kicker. Double whammy. Overall the FO are not good negotiators and it is known around the league, other GMs just know the Hawks FO will bend over to almost any deal.

 

So we are clear on this, the way this works is that the Hawks payout DJ the money from the trade kicker but the salary goes on the Pels cap sheet. It is not dead money for us. 100% of DJ’s salary is on their books, even if the extra cash comes from us. 

[Packfill]

Latest intel is that the Hawks are going big game hunting at the trade deadline. They will use their plethora of expiring contracts and best in class trade player exception to extract a star from another team that lacks the vision, stability and long range planning that has come to embody the Hawks franchise. Teams are already starting to try and figure out how to navigate long term given the Hawks projected hegemony in the East. 

Landry is clearly playing 3-dimensional chess while the rest of the league is playing checkers. 

[ABH]

All they want is to stay under the cap..peroid..they will learn soon when Trae ask out or leaves..peroid

[deester11]

47 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Everyone?  I see people who by their words demonstrate that they are either unaware or don’t understand.

To your second point, having a cleaner cap sheet with a viable path to long term improvement is the best thing Landry has actually done.  The short term upper echelon talent acquisition is where he has missed the mark so far.

Man yall killing it with the Hawks know best, clean cap shyt. When the FO shows they know how to use money wisely and stop bending at the will of other teams, Holla. UNTIL such time, this board and the fans can be negative all they want. Perhaps the Hawks can shut us all up and do something besides be mediocre. 

[deester11]

2 minutes ago, Packfill said:

Latest intel is that the Hawks are going big game hunting at the trade deadline. They will use their plethora of expiring contracts and best in class trade player exception to extract a star from another team that lacks the vision, stability and long range planning that has come to embody the Hawks franchise. Teams are already starting to try and figure out how to navigate long term given the Hawks projected hegemony in the East. 

Landry is clearly playing 3-dimensional chess while the rest of the league is playing checkers. 

If Landry is playing Chess, it's clearly against a much better opponent. His azz getting checkmated to death. 

[Packfill]

3 minutes ago, deester11 said:

If Landry is playing Chess, it's clearly against a much better opponent. His azz getting checkmated to death. 

It only seems that way on the surface. Look deeper and you can see the vision. Every star in the league wants to come play in the Landryverse now given the tailor made opportunities for shot creators. Trae will slide perfectly into a Steve Nash efficiency monster role with the new star taking over the lead shot taking role now that DJ is gone and not clogging that “lane”.

[Hawkmoor]

21 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

We’ll see if we are worse.  We may have solved our main problem POA defense.  

Hunter is an issue because he seems like he’s kind of a misfit in Quin’s system.  Not very fluid with his read and react ability.  He has a long and expensive contract for a guy who might be a poor fit.  

Thats what got Murray moved. Instead of making the coach fit the good players, the Hawks are doing the opposite.  The Hawks are gonna be left with Trae Young,  their version of Ronald Acuna Jr. with a consistently hurt Johnson (which nobody talks about), a maybe in Risacher, and some "guys" with the rest of them.   As much as I despise Trae Young, he is a sympton of the problem, not the problem itself.  The Hawks ain't trying to win.  If they can luck into something with minimum payroll and just throwing guys around Trae, they are happy.