2024-25 Insider Thread

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

Steve Koonin is really losing credibility.  This complaint I get.  They had false confidence in what they would be able to do on the trade market two years in a row.  

Last year they left massive holes on the roster and $10M unused.  I hope their plan B is better this year because we don’t have time to falter.  We need to be better on the court by a significant margin over the next 3 years while SA owns our picks.

[thecampster]

Just now, AHF said:

If we reroute Zeller that removes one wart but the bigger issue is not enough value coming back.  This was our big chip to cash in.  We left money on the table.  

Well, you and I agree on the premise, disagree on the biggest chip.  We whiffed on getting value out of that #1 pick.  Risacher could turn out to be the next coming of Klay Thompson but that's kind of the bar for me right now on them doing well with the pick. If Risacher turns out to be Marvin Williams (or worse), I might have to start seeking a little professional help. If the bigs in this draft turn out better than Zaach, people (and by people I mean me) are going to demand answers.

IMHO biggest chip was the pick, #2 was DJ.  I like the value back (basically 3 1sts when you consider DD) but your point isn't lost on me.

[AHF]

Just now, Hawkmoor said:

Hunter is a piece.  You rather build around Dyson, Nance Jr.?

No one is building around Nance.  He is filler who will be a nice role player at the 4 and 5 off the bench for this year and likely is gone after this year.

Dyson is the centerpiece of the deal for at least the remainder of Trae’s contract.  The Hawks are building around him given how this trade was structured and the time horizon for competing in this era of the Hawks.  It is a lot to put on his shoulders but he is a talented you player who does things we really need.  I’ve seen a lot of All-NBA defense mentions for him among fans of the trade and I hope he delivers on their faith.

[JayBirdHawk]

Let's understand that the original deal, had it occurred prior to June 30th had us only matching DJs $18 million contract plus the kicker so ~$20.7 million. So Nance, Daniels, then the added Lydell got us close $18.1. NOP apparently offered Matt Ryan ($2), which should have closed the deal, Hawks declined, so the deal got pushed to the new league year. 

DJ's new salary plus the kicker increased the trading salary to ~$28 million...so now we are forced into a SnT for a player that will get more than a minimum contract to make the matching salaries work. 

Make that make sense!

Spoiler

Like I said previous, there might me something we are missing that may become clearer down the line, but as of now it doesn't pass the smell test

 

[Final_quest]

5 minutes ago, ShayD said:

There is a problem with all this, they don't have much time to get better and don't have the draft picks to be a bad team.

I agree with this concern as well.  We’re building a team reliant on Trae, but the talent might not come together in time to keep him.  

[phoostal]

Did we improve?  Yes.   

I think for most on the site they were expecting more.   

You had our insiders hyping up the off season as well as Koonin on his radio spot saying the Hawks are going to be very relevant in the off season. 

This gets everyone excited thinking we are going to make some moves to give us reason to think we are going to be contenders. 

So when this happens and there are no other imminent moves it seems like a huge let down.   

Yes we are better but everyone wanted more than what really happen. 

It is what it is and maybe we'll surprise.

I think the biggest failure is Ressler.  He's holding this franchise back.   The team will never perform the way it should with him running the show.

[AHF]

Just now, thecampster said:

Well, you and I agree on the premise, disagree on the biggest chip.  We whiffed on getting value out of that #1 pick.  Risacher could turn out to be the next coming of Klay Thompson but that's kind of the bar for me right now on them doing well with the pick. If Risacher turns out to be Marvin Williams (or worse), I might have to start seeking a little professional help. If the bigs in this draft turn out better than Zaach, people (and by people I mean me) are going to demand answers.

IMHO biggest chip was the pick, #2 was DJ.  I like the value back (basically 3 1sts when you consider DD) but your point isn't lost on me.

That is fair.  The way I am thinking about it is that the #1 pick was going to be a high pick for us that we should have leveraged for more return but didn’t.  The biggest return from the pick was always most likely in my mind whoever we picked.  The failure to get any kind of sweetener with a trade down was a miss we both agree but I’m ok with us going with Risacher.  I am assuming our scouts had him as the most impactful player in the draft by a significant margin so I think our best case there was picking up another pick to trade down and still get him.  I think your view is we could have gotten two players at his level if we had traded down and that is a fair view but one I’m assuming our scouts didn’t share.
 

I view DJM as the big pick because we weren’t going to just get out of the draft or anything.  We came into the offseason in the business of getting out of DJM.  Most of the value from our pick was still going to be in our top pick.  For DJM, everything coming back was return value.  So as far as impact on the team for next year, I’ve always seen his trade as the big move.  
 

But I think you and I see a lot of this the same way.

[thecampster]

Here is what everyone needs to focus on with the Zeller add to the contract.  This now puts us in the position of either Zeller or Bruno.  If we don't reroute Zeller in the next 3 days for a pick or a stash player, we won't tender Bruno come July 10th.  That's what you need to let sink in.  The money for Zeller is mostly a wash with Bruno's expected salary.  But you're trading Zeller for Bruno at this point.

[Hawkmoor]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Let's understand that the original deal, had it occurred prior to June 30th had us only matching DJs $18 million contract plus the kicker so ~$20.7 million. So Nance, Daniels, then the added Lydell got us close $19.3. NOP apparently offered Matt Ryan ($2), which should have closed the deal, Hawks declined, so the deal got pushed to the new league year. 

DJ's new salary plus the kicker increased the trading salary to ~$28 million...so now we are forced into a SnT for a player that will get more than a minimum contract to make the matching salaries work. 

Make that make sense!

But the Hawks have 10 GMS and a Cap Guru.

[Hawkish]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Here is what everyone needs to focus on with the Zeller add to the contract.  This now puts us in the position of either Zeller or Bruno.  If we don't reroute Zeller in the next 3 days for a pick or a stash player, we won't tender Bruno come July 10th.  That's what you need to let sink in.  The money for Zeller is mostly a wash with Bruno's expected salary.  But you're trading Zeller for Bruno at this point.

Keep Bruno

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is fair.  The way I am thinking about it is that the #1 pick was going to be a high pick for us that we should have leveraged for more return but didn’t.  The biggest return from the pick was always most likely in my mind whoever we picked.  The failure to get any kind of sweetener with a trade down was a miss we both agree but I’m ok with us going with Risacher.  I am assuming our scouts had him as the most impactful player in the draft by a significant margin so I think our best case there was picking up another pick to trade down and still get him.  I think your view is we could have gotten two players at his level if we had traded down and that is a fair view but one I’m assuming our scouts didn’t share.
 

I view DJM as the big pick because we weren’t going to just get out of the draft or anything.  We came into the offseason in the business of getting out of DJM.  Most of the value from our pick was still going to be in our top pick.  For DJM, everything coming back was return value.  So as far as impact on the team for next year, I’ve always seen his trade as the big move.  
 

But I think you and I see a lot of this the same way.

Yah and you know there were a few players I coveted in this draft that could have been had with a trade down. A couple of teams got really good value in the teens/20's on a few select players.  Those salaries are lower and carried less risk than Zaach. 

 

For those who haven't heard my take on him....he's skinny, needs to add weight.  He did some good things in France but again, that was a significantly lower league than the competition he would have faced in the NCAA big conferences.  I always skew results from players from Europe, because for every Wemby/Doncic, there are multiple washouts.  Remember, Alpha Kaba is a stud in Europe right now.  3 years ago, Kaba was an 8/8 player in the same league Risacher played in.  I'm going to support him (the Hawk) but always question the pick unless proven wrong.

[ShayD]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Here is what everyone needs to focus on with the Zeller add to the contract.  This now puts us in the position of either Zeller or Bruno.  If we don't reroute Zeller in the next 3 days for a pick or a stash player, we won't tender Bruno come July 10th.  That's what you need to let sink in.  The money for Zeller is mostly a wash with Bruno's expected salary.  But you're trading Zeller for Bruno at this point.

Bruno cannot catch a pass but he is still better for this team than washed Zeller. But now how are they going to get rid of Zeller?

[deester11]

19 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Steve Koonin is really losing credibility.  This complaint I get.  They had false confidence in what they would be able to do on the trade market two years in a row.  

It was the pompous way he handled questions two years straight like the fans were dumb and the hawks were going to look different. Like @JayBirdHawk...it's taken me a while to get here, but now that I am...show me. Not listening to the Stanford guy..Riddler...none of em. 

[JeffS17]

22 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Steve Koonin is really losing credibility.  This complaint I get.  They had false confidence in what they would be able to do on the trade market two years in a row.  

 

Just now, deester11 said:

It was the pompous way he handled questions two years straight like the fans were dumb and the hawks were going to look different. Like @JayBirdHawk...it's taken me a while to get here, but now that I am...show me. Not listening to the Stanford guy..Riddler...none of em. 

Not a big fan of him.  He continually puts his foot in his mouth.  Im actually surprised hes maintained employment with the org— not really sure what value hes providing.

[JayBirdHawk]

  TONY'S busy:

Speaking ing from experience Tony?

Quote

....the importance and value of the overall assets themselves, will dramatically push to improve management and expertise in these businesses, which really historically, haven’t been very well run…

 

 

[terrell]

4 hours ago, BangHolman said:

I don't think anyone is mad at the insiders for sharing what they hear.

We're upset with the FO for coming up short every off-season and deadline. The frustration is with them, not you. This was the most important off-season for the Hawks and were walking away with Dyson and Nance as our "win now" players as of now. Is that enough o keep Trae. He looks completely disengaged on every social media platform already.

To me, They’re hanging on to the past, while trying to transition to the future and giving this Group one more run....

Problem is, right now we really don't know if the young guys(Kobe Risacher Gueye Daniels etc) can play or not..... that is what we need to learn this season, and if things start poorly we’ll need to know before the trade deadline.....................

One things for sure, we need Trae to get off to a hot start(knock on wood), and he's not really known for that.. 

If he starts slow and we're  like 10 games below .500 at the break, I can see a total rebuild happening sooner than later...

[JayBirdHawk]

The Kings went hard after the Utah Jazz’s Lauri Markkanen earlier in the week, protecting Keegan Murray in the discussions but putting on the table what they believe was a substantial enough picks-based offer, team sources said. But they put a deadline to their side of the deal, needing an answer quickly considering the urgency of the dissolving market.

Utah didn’t meet it. There’s growing skepticism leaguewide that Jazz executive Danny Ainge will actually move on any Markkanen deal. So the Kings pivoted quickly to DeRozan, getting wind he’d actually have interest and then hitting the gas pedal. They had several veteran players and assistant coach Leandro Barbosa, who played two seasons with DeRozan in Toronto, call and give their pitch.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5621320/2024/07/07/demar-derozan-kings-trade-sacramento-celebration/?source=emp_shared_article

[ShayD]

The hawks might be better than they were last year, but they lost a 20ppg scorer and right now there are at least 7 teams in the East proven to be better than the Hawks. There are also 3 under the radar teams that should not be slept on Heat, Raptors and Detroit.

Detroit are obviously banking on internal development but added Beasley and Tobias. Heat were better than the Hawks last year, lost some FAs but "culture" and coaching and overall top end talent is still better. And Raptors may seem like a bad team, but with a starting lineup of Quickley, d*ck, Barret, Barnes, Poeltl is not that bad on paper, still have Bruce Brown, Olynyk as depth pieces.

The hawks just have to very careful this year and not become a feeder team to the Spurs

[terrell]

1 hour ago, ABH said:

All they want is to stay under the cap..peroid..they will learn soon when Trae ask out or leaves..peroid

Obviously they don't care.. lol

He's made Tony plenty of $ already..

He could just sell the team if he wants to, and make even more profit.... 

This is just a business to Ressler..

Edited July 7 by terrell

[Final_quest]

14 minutes ago, phoostal said:

Did we improve?  Yes.   

I think for most on the site they were expecting more.   

You had our insiders hyping up the off season as well as Koonin on his radio spot saying the Hawks are going to be very relevant in the off season. 

This gets everyone excited thinking we are going to make some moves to give us reason to think we are going to be contenders. 

So when this happens and there are no other imminent moves it seems like a huge let down.   

Yes we are better but everyone wanted more than what really happen. 

It is what it is and maybe we'll surprise.

I think the biggest failure is Ressler.  He's holding this franchise back.   The team will never perform the way it should with him running the show.

Agree with everything but the last part.  I think the premise that you use the tax to turn a .500 team into a contender is flawed/wrong.  There are maybe 4 teams in the league using the tax well, and everyone else is using it wrong or not using it.  If we started to use it, it would most likely be a failure to launch.  

Teague said our owner is cool as hell.  Why do so many here think he’s Monty Burns?  Is the truth somewhere in between?

I’m personally tired of the “pay the tax” worshippers when we don’t even have a roster that justifies it.