2024-25 Insider Thread

[Packfill]

4 hours ago, djjob23 said:

or Naji Marshall? 

He is in Dallas now.

[KB21]

I’m all for a DeAndre Hunter for Isaac Okoro deal though.  

[Hawkish]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Pels are talking Ingram for Allen swap with Cleveland but Atkinson wants to keep them from trading. 

Any opportunities out there for us?  

[Packfill]

3 hours ago, Dragitoff said:

I really hope you're right because OO had an opportunity last year to seize that starting job and couldn't do it either because of performance or health.  He really has all the tools and is considerably better offensively.  I really hope they can get something of value to move Clint to take the training wheels completely off for OO.  With the extension signed, even if it's a great value contract, we need to know if he's our starting center or not going forward.

I think there is a bit of Hopium involved in thinking that OO's inability to rest the starting job away from a declining CC is based solely on the personel around him - as if CC and every other Hawks would not benefit from better defenders up and down the roster.  

But this season should allow us to all determine if OO is starter material definitively.  CC is an expiring who is unlikely to return (let alone make it through the season) and OO has been the heir apparent for years now and he has enough experience at this point where the excuses are gone.  

[Peoriabird]

I don't think the Hawks are trading Capela.

https://soaringdownsouth.com/posts/insider-hawks-pelicans-murray-trade-capela

[AtLaS]

27 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't think the Hawks are trading Capela.

https://soaringdownsouth.com/posts/insider-hawks-pelicans-murray-trade-capela

I didn't get that from this article at all.  It just sounds like we don't want Ingram, and most fans agree.

Worst case scenario we keep Capela for this year, he's still a good rebounder and defensive player, and he's certainly better than Bruno/Nance/Zeller.  He kills our spacing offensively though so I'd rather start OO over him regardless.

 

[JTB]

4 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I have a theory....

I think Clint's predominant value to the Hawks is defense.  I think he gets in the way on offense, but he actually holds the team together defensively.  I think because the defense outside of Clint has been SOO BAD the last few years, there was no way Quin could play Clint less because the defense would never get a stop.  

I actually think addressing the POA and Wing defense with DD and Risacher will allow Quin to play the guy with the offensive game to fit the rest of the team and not have to worry about the defense.  I think OO starts this year precisely because the rest of the team's defense has now gotten better.  I don't think the team NEEDS Clint's defense as much as it has the last 2 years.  

 

I believe that’s the plan IF Okungwu’s jump shot from 3 is truly reliable this season. If it is there’s no question he will start. If OO can be reliable from 3 shot it will keep traditional bigs (unless stars) sidelined against us and that would be a big plus because it will make his defense stay impactful as well vs small ball lineups.

BUT if OO doesn’t develop a reliable jumper I don’t see how he starts over Capela personally. Your theory can be reversed by staying that better wing defenders allows more aggressive play on the perimeter because they know Capela has the rim protection covered.

49 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  I can’t see Kenny being on board with trading for Ingram.  

I can’t. I actually see Kenny pushing to keep Allen over Ingram but we shall see.

Pelicans can turn out to be extremely good with an Allen pick up though. SMH we may have helped make the pelicans contenders….what’s new.

[JTB]

56 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I’m all for a DeAndre Hunter for Isaac Okoro deal though.  

Keep Hunter and put him on the bench to back up Risacher. That’s the best move for us and allows us to have depth.

Also I rather have Thybulle over okoro. Thybulle is at least a true multi defense all team player whereas okoro never lived up to expectations seem like.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Pels are talking Ingram for Allen swap with Cleveland but Atkinson wants to keep them from trading. 

Pels want a lot of things for Ingram, but most people can see that guy isnt a winning player, just an expensive one

[JeffS17]

15 minutes ago, JTB said:

Keep Hunter and put him on the bench to back up Risacher. That’s the best move for us and allows us to have depth.

Also I rather have Thybulle over okoro. Thybulle is at least a true multi defense all team player whereas okoro never lived up to expectations seem like.

I think the Pels are going to have the same epiphany we had— DJ is good but isnt adding wins.  Hes a pretty average distributor and play maker which is better than what theyve had but we’ll see.  His shooting efficiency and shot diet is all average.

[Sothron]

15 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Pels want a lot of things for Ingram, but most people can see that guy isnt a winning player, just an expensive one

it is his wanting a max extension that is scaring teams off. The Pels are in a hard place with him. They can't pay the LT so resigning him is not possible. They will have to flip him before the trade deadline or he'll just walk.

[deester11]

25 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think the Pels are going to have the same epiphany we had— DJ is good but isnt adding wins.  Hes a pretty average distributor and play maker which is better than what theyve had but we’ll see.  His shooting efficiency and shot diet is all average.

Jeff..this ain't it. I get he's  not a Hawk anymore, blah..blah..blah, but DJM was not average. He did all this team asked him to do including playing 2nd fiddle to Trae. He was not the problem, the fit was. He's above average..it's disingenuous to say otherwise.

[REHawksFan]

6 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Jeff..this ain't it. I get he's  not a Hawk anymore, blah..blah..blah, but DJM was not average. He did all this team asked him to do including playing 2nd fiddle to Trae. He was not the problem, the fit was. He's above average..it's disingenuous to say otherwise.

I think we are all spoiled by Trae's passing ability which is ELITE. In comparison, it does seem like DJM is just avg as a passer. 

I think where he's elite is as a playmaking guard but the vast majority of times he's creating for himself. He can go get buckets when you need them. But he isn't exactly creating for other players. 

And I know he avg a bunch of asts when Trae was out. I'm not saying he can't do those things. It's just that he doesn't seem to be great at them. Or at least not compared to Trae.

It's telling to me that DJ didn't make any player better this year offensively. Every rotational player for the Hawks was better without DJ on the court than with DJ.

Will be interesting to see if that changes with NO. I'm not convinced the fit will be great there either. 

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Jeff..this ain't it. I get he's  not a Hawk anymore, blah..blah..blah, but DJM was not average. He did all this team asked him to do including playing 2nd fiddle to Trae. He was not the problem, the fit was. He's above average..it's disingenuous to say otherwise.

Average is definitely harsh as a raw evaluation of his talent.  He's an above average starting PG.  That's probably a more fair way to describe him-- above average.  But if you look at his net rating as a player over the last two years, his impact seems to be below pretty much all of our starters and rotation players.  This is why I say he's a weird player to gauge his value.  He has a high floor but a low ceiling.

Also, you have to look at the minutes he's replacing.  22 of those are Dyson Daniels.  So here is how I think of it: 22 minutes with worse defense, right?  I think we can all agree DD is a better defender than Murray.  Now whose shots is he taking?  5 FGA coming from Daniels in which Murray is a marginally more efficient scorer.  The rest are going to be eating into the rest of the lineup which are all pretty efficient scorers.  What NO is banking on is Murray being able to facilitate and play make to get better looks than Zion and Ingram and CJ and the rest of the team were generating.  Murray is a decent play maker, but again, nothing special.  I just don't know if they're going to get the lift they think the will from him.  I could be dead ass wrong, of course, but I think there's a chance this trade is going to age like wine for us and milk for them.  Not even rooting for it really, I would love for the Pels to be actual contenders next year -- I always pull for small market teams.

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

And I know he avg a bunch of asts when Trae was out. I'm not saying he can't do those things. It's just that he doesn't seem to be great at them. Or at least not compared to Trae.

Yeah, I do wonder if I'm too hard on Murray because I'm anchored to Trae.  Not all assists are the same tho for sure -- go to nba.com and go to any Pacers game and click to watch through Haliburtons assists and it will be eye opening.  Bookkeeping on assists is wild-- a lazy pass around the horn to Siakam where Siakam pauses, does three dribble moves, shoves the defender, then hits a middie, and that's an assist for Hali.  There's a gulf between a lot of guys assist quality and Traes.

[djjob23]

2 hours ago, Packfill said:

He is in Dallas now.

Yep. He was available after the DJM trade was announced, but not when it was completed. ATL must’ve not thought Naji fit our team culture LOL. 

[deester11]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yeah, I do wonder if I'm too hard on Murray because I'm anchored to Trae.  Not all assists are the same tho for sure -- go to nba.com and go to any Pacers game and click to watch through Haliburtons assists and it will be eye opening.  Bookkeeping on assists is wild-- a lazy pass around the horn to Siakam where Siakam pauses, does three dribble moves, shoves the defender, then hits a middie, and that's an assist for Hali.  There's a gulf between a lot of guys assist quality and Traes.

No @JeffS17..I don't think you're being harsh you have your view. I just think for what he was asked to do he tried to integrate his game into a pg dominant offense for the good of Trae for better it worse. You and @REHawksFan bring up valid points. I just feel that to elevate Daniels and the picks above what Murray is/was is selling him short just a little. 

[MarylandHawk]

6 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I have a theory....

I think Clint's predominant value to the Hawks is defense.  I think he gets in the way on offense, but he actually holds the team together defensively.  I think because the defense outside of Clint has been SOO BAD the last few years, there was no way Quin could play Clint less because the defense would never get a stop.  

I actually think addressing the POA and Wing defense with DD and Risacher will allow Quin to play the guy with the offensive game to fit the rest of the team and not have to worry about the defense.  I think OO starts this year precisely because the rest of the team's defense has now gotten better.  I don't think the team NEEDS Clint's defense as much as it has the last 2 years.  

 

Yeah but OO17 isa better defender. 

[theheroatl]

I’m not expecting any further moves from Atlanta.

Maybe Trae traded at the deadline if the tank is on.

 

Looking forward to seeing rookies and rooting for the Lakers to suck. That’s about it.

Edited July 9 by theheroatl

[ShooterSays]

Sac pick + whatever we can get for Capela.

I’d feel a lot better about our off-season and future if we could land Kessler.