2024-25 Insider Thread

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Hunter staying only works if we see him as our long term starter.  If we don’t…you cut him.  

This improves our team because we free up salary for guys we want to pay vs Hunter being a guy we don’t want to pay.    

I’m cool with Hunter for Williams plus a pick.  Then we trade Capela + Nance for Ayton.  

Start Williams, Risacher, or Daniels at the three.  Risacher could start with Trae, Bogi, Jalen, and Ayton.  All he needs to do is 3 & D.

Describe how we will use that salary to make the team better this year or is this another "we'll make the team worse this year but trust me bro I'll totally spend more in the future to make the team better just wait!" move?

2 hours ago, ShayD said:

You do the deal if it's an unprotected first though.

Right...but why in the world would Charlotte of all teams give away an unprotected first to get DeAndre Hunter a player that FQ says we should simply cut?

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Describe how we will use that salary to make the team better this year or is this another "we'll make the team worse this year but trust me bro I'll totally spend more in the future to make the team better just wait!" move?

Right...but why in the world would Charlotte of all teams give away an unprotected first to get DeAndre Hunter a player that FQ says we should simply cut?

People seem to have worked themselves up into thinking that DeAndre Hunter is worthless and that Risacher is a welcome improvement right now. I don't know what's going on but part of me want him to get away from this toxic situation just to open people's eye a bit next season

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Lmao. Completely. It'll probably be top 29 protected with Landry negotiating it. 

It's a deal where they can acquire any first round pick and give it to us so we get the worst of all their picks but the good news is it is only top 27 protected!  Fans tell me this is great because with a "worst of all worlds" pick, the top 27 protection doesn't really mean anything so we should be applauding its inclusion.

Plus then the team can conclude that Grant Williams is overpaid and they don't want to pay him for the next 3 years and then salary dump him at the trade deadline to give the fans some excitement.  I'm hoping we see a return of Justin Holiday along with maybe someone who is injured for the rest of the season but is on an expiring contract to clear more cap room next year. 

Seriously, Risacher should get all the minutes he can get but not more than he can handle.  Don't throw him in the deep water without a quality alternative.  (Daniels should be getting the vast majority of his minutes at the SG spot.)

Hunter showed he can be a plus bench player last season and he has strength to matchup against big wings that Risacher is almost certainly going to lack as a teenage rookie.  Do not give him away to bring in some one dimensional bench player who wore out his welcome with multiple teams that love having a ton of wings.  I also don't think it is crazy to think Risacher might not be ready to start at the beginning of the season in which case playing in tandem with Hunter makes wayyy more sense than playing behind someone like Williams who should only get big minutes on a team with tanking aspirations.

Hunter has 3 years left on his deal and the closer he gets to the end of his deal the easier he should be to move because adding a two way wing on a contract that overpays him gets more interesting the less time there is remaining on that deal.

[Final_quest]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

Describe how we will use that salary to make the team better this year or is this another "we'll make the team worse this year but trust me bro I'll totally spend more in the future to make the team better just wait!" move?

Right...but why in the world would Charlotte of all teams give away an unprotected first to get DeAndre Hunter a player that FQ says we should simply cut?

By cut I mean move off of his salary ASAP getting as much as we can in return.  But yes, I have more of a long range view of our roster.  

If we build with only this year in mind keeping Hunter, we’re going to make that same tough choice again next year.  Kicking that can down the road every year hurts your team.  

What if we can never get a better player than Hunter by trading him?  We just keep paying him and then wonder why we have to cut someone else while Hunter remains the highest paid bench player in the league.

Why is paying Hunter only until we get an offer for a better player in return the right strategy?  It’s not.  Move him now.  Ya’ll don’t understand what has killed our team is being loaded with ineffective and overpaid guys that we hang onto.  

[Mikey]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Williams for Hunter.  Tell us you don't have plans to compete this year without saying it out loud.

Im always interested in how you guys land at this lol. Dre is not some world beater and they would add a better fit player plus recoup an additional first. Not to mention we are not competing for anything of note this year anyways. 

[deester11]

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

Im always interested in how you guys land at this lol. Dre is not some world beater and they would add a better fit player plus recoup an additional first. Not to mention we are not competing for anything of note this year anyways. 

They'd better be competing for at least the play in. I mean they've built the team for sustained mediocrity!

[RedDawg#8]

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

Im always interested in how you guys land at this lol. Dre is not some world beater and they would add a better fit player plus recoup an additional first. Not to mention we are not competing for anything of note this year anyways. 

It’s because G Williams has a punchable face, a corny personality, and thought he was better than he was because he was on the Celtics, and has come crashing back down to Earth since leaving them.

[Gray Mule]

Posters here, for the most part, want Capela and Hunter on some other NBA team's roster.  

Atlanta is not finished trading before opening bell.

We have a ton of very good young players.  Our hopes and dreams are, we find some great players from this group!

[Final_quest]

6 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Im always interested in how you guys land at this lol. Dre is not some world beater and they would add a better fit player plus recoup an additional first. Not to mention we are not competing for anything of note this year anyways. 

Hunter is about the longest contract on the roster and one of the highest paid players, but he doesn't fit the vision.  Keeping him indefinitely because he's marginally better than guys like Grant Williams is the wrong fork in the road to take.  

 

[Final_quest]

13 minutes ago, deester11 said:

They'd better be competing for at least the play in. I mean they've built the team for sustained mediocrity!

They don't even have to compete for a play in.  Most of the other play in level teams are tanking.  

[AtLaS]

17 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Im always interested in how you guys land at this lol. Dre is not some world beater and they would add a better fit player plus recoup an additional first. Not to mention we are not competing for anything of note this year anyways. 

Sure, Dre isn't a world beater but he's better than Grant Williams.  This trade makes the team worse.

If we aren't trying to compete this year than I guess we aren't worried about keeping Trae.  That's fine if that's the choice FO wants to make but we need to go ahead and get on with it.  Next year he will have lost a lot of value since he will be an expiring and expecting to get a huge payday in the '26 offseason.

Salary reduction moves that make your team worse for heavily protected future 1st rounders that won't convey for 4 years don't exactly instill confidence with your star players that are in their prime and want to win.

[Hawkish]

27 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Im always interested in how you guys land at this lol. Dre is not some world beater and they would add a better fit player plus recoup an additional first. Not to mention we are not competing for anything of note this year anyways. 

Is he a better fit personality wise?  His former teams have no problem saying goodbye.  
 

What kind of 1st could we expect?

[georgia]

I see Zaire Williams is being mentioned in trades.    Does Memphis need depth at center?     Trade them Nance for him and a sign and trade for Jordan Goodwin to feel our need as a 3rd PG.  

[kg01]

21 minutes ago, georgia said:

I see Zaire Williams is being mentioned in trades.    Does Memphis need depth at center?     Trade them Nance for him and a sign and trade for Jordan Goodwin to feel our need as a 3rd PG.  

We need Nance more than we need a 3rd string pg and a draft bust (Zaire W.). 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

By cut I mean move off of his salary ASAP getting as much as we can in return.  But yes, I have more of a long range view of our roster.  

If we build with only this year in mind keeping Hunter, we’re going to make that same tough choice again next year.  Kicking that can down the road every year hurts your team.  

What if we can never get a better player than Hunter by trading him?  We just keep paying him and then wonder why we have to cut someone else while Hunter remains the highest paid bench player in the league.

Why is paying Hunter only until we get an offer for a better player in return the right strategy?  It’s not.  Move him now.  Ya’ll don’t understand what has killed our team is being loaded with ineffective and overpaid guys that we hang onto.  

You really think Trae is going to stick around while watching the team dump player after player?  There is time sensitivity to competing NOW.  Trae has watched the team dump players for salary reductions for several straight years including this offseason with DJM which by itself is one thing because you can at least squint and see an improved roster from the trade due to fit but there is no putting lipstick on a pig to make Grant Williams look like an upgrade. 

If you want to keep your All-Star, at some point you need to try to compete along the way.  We sure didn't last year (or if you call putting all your eggs in the Siakam basket trying then I will say you failed) and ended up deliberately tanking the post-season roster to get into the lottery.  At least there was a moment of sanity where we stopped pretending to compete when we clearly didn't give a **** about competing for most of the season. 

Hunter getting $21.6M next year which is right about the same as a good role player like KCP ($22M).  We are already set up to dump $32M in salary with Nance and Capela next year.  We already dumped salary for this year with the DJM trade.  When is enough dumping enough to start competing?

I don't mind a Hunter trade but you should be trading with a priority in mind of competing for this season.  If we dump Hunter for a subpar player like Grant Williams, we are really putting all our eggs in the Risacher basket which seems unfair to me to aske of a 190 lb teenager.

The wing position is just not one where you should be deliberately making your roster more shallow and limited.  Hunter isn't my favorite Hawk but he contributes on both ends of the floor and has the size to guard big wings.  Can you say the same of Grant Williams?  If not, when does the team turn the corner and start focusing on competing?

[JustSomeGuy]

6 hours ago, Final_quest said:

We have to understand why teams don’t want our guys.  They are/were overpaid.  You can easily trade Hunter, Collins, or Capela if teams want them.  

Does anyone thinks Landry keeps turning down killer offers for Hunter and Capela?  I think he never got a good offer, but if there is a complaint against him it implies there is an expectation that he should be turning trash into treasure.  

If you trade Hunter or Capela, how do you do it in a way that improves the team?

Hawks university is our actual long term answer, and a lot of teams are gonna need to make this shift with the new CBA.  

It’s not that teams don’t want our guys. They have markets, which means people find them valuable. The issue at hand is they know we are desperate and trying to squeeze maximum value for pennies on the dollar

[JustSomeGuy]

DH should be a better player than he is but his ceiling is capped, not because he is overpaid, but because he can’t rebound, has a low motor, is an overrated POA defender, and stays injured. As he ages these are things that will only become more problematic as well. 

Who is giving up anything of consequence for that? 

Grant Williams is a good shooter, dawg POA defender and more disruptive than DH. Harrison Barnes is a winning role player in this league and solid contributor who can replace his scoring. Are they better 1 on 1 players? No. But can be arguably a better fit for our lineup and team because they do the things DH doesn’t. 

Edited July 15 by JustSomeGuy

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Hunter is about the longest contract on the roster and one of the highest paid players, but he doesn't fit the vision.  Keeping him indefinitely because he's marginally better than guys like Grant Williams is the wrong fork in the road to take.  

 

Grant and Hunter are on the same 3 year contract.  Hunter costs a premium but two-way wings cost a premium.  ($21.6M to $13M this season)  Why is adding a terrible defender and limited offensive player who hasn't been liked by his teams and is under contract for the same length of time some big win for us?  What are we going to do with the $8.6M we save that will be better than the better performance from Hunter?  We are going to be over the cap and under the tax line for all practical purposes for the next couple of years unless we really tear this team down.  What is the great team building benefit from this downgrade salary dump trade?  What is the move that this enables?

I feel like I'm missing the silver bullet that this trade gives us.  Help me see what type of deal this trade unlocks for us when we are paying $8-10M less for a worse forward over the next 3 years.  I'll do my best to listen.

1 hour ago, AtLaS said:

Sure, Dre isn't a world beater but he's better than Grant Williams.  This trade makes the team worse.

If we aren't trying to compete this year than I guess we aren't worried about keeping Trae.  That's fine if that's the choice FO wants to make but we need to go ahead and get on with it.  Next year he will have lost a lot of value since he will be an expiring and expecting to get a huge payday in the '26 offseason.

Salary reduction moves that make your team worse for heavily protected future 1st rounders that won't convey for 4 years don't exactly instill confidence with your star players that are in their prime and want to win.

This is the punchline for me.  Seems like we have one foot in a rebuild and one foot in a build around Trae.  I don't see the logical through line but I'm hoping FQ can show me how we do the Grant Williams deal and suddenly this unlocks the addition of a star to our roster that we could not otherwise have done because it just seems like we will be in the same place (non-tax-paying team that is over the cap) but with a worse rotation wing.

[Final_quest]

13 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

It’s not that teams don’t want our guys. They have markets, which means people find them valuable. The issue at hand is they know we are desperate and trying to squeeze maximum value for pennies on the dollar

Not true.  The notion that our PR sucks as the reason no one wants to trade for Capela or Hunter is just wrong.  

[JustSomeGuy]

4 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Not true.  The notion that our PR sucks as the reason no one wants to trade for Capela or Hunter is just wrong.  

I said something about PR?