2024-25 Insider Thread

[theheroatl]

Just now, JTB said:

Yup! Folks need to watch his interviews…the guy just wants his talents maximized and honestly he’s so skilled around the basket it doesn’t make sense to not heavily involve him.

crazy how people get non motor mixed up with just being wanted .

Exactly. I would equate his personality to Dwight Howard. 

That statement isn't to equate him to talent or where he is in his career, just how his emotional state is.

[JeffS17]

Ayton was a 17 PPG players last year on 59% TS. That's really bad efficiency for a center (Okongwu 10 ppg on 68% TS for reference).  And Ayton cannot space the floor either-- he's the Brandon Ingram of centers.  He might be skilled, but not the ways that impact winning in the modern NBA.  And his defense is not really an upgrade over Capela or even Okongwu. 

Yes, I'm a big Ayton hater, never been a huge fan of him personally or his game.  He squandered a nice situation in Phoenix literally because he was a selfish player and did not put team first.  There is a 0% chance our FO is even considering this guy anyways so it's all kind of a moot point.

[Dragitoff]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There is no reasonable deal where DJ goes out and Ayton comes back unless it comes with Sharpe and I don't see why Portland would.

I think any deal that potentially brings Ayton to Atlanta is at least a 3-team deal.  Sending Ingram to Portland, Ayton, Thybulle & Picks to Atlanta, DJM & Capela to NO. 

[AHF]

35 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Yea but what were the offers , didn't someone already say that spurs rejectes the deal with us because they didn't think the diff between 1 and 4 was much ,I believe same guy said that 

He said 4 & 8 from SA with some undefined sweetner and 7&14 from Portland which would presumably have been something like Clingan and Knecht.  

[AtLaS]

31 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ayton will never be on a championship team, as a starter or a backup playing meaningful minutes.  The guy has no motor, no drive, no desire to be a plus player.  Pure talent, mostly wasted imo.  Moderately impactful player literally right up until he signed his extension and then he dropped to the worse player on the Suns, statistically and by eye test.  One of the most unserious players in the league, up there with guys like jordan poole and jaden ivey, 

Ayton was on a finals team as a starter and a top contributor.  His numbers improved after the finals run.  To me he is a great buy low candidate.  

He's not a great defender, but is an elite rebounder, finisher, plays well with a good PG, and can stretch the floor.  He will make Trae better offensively because he can space the floor, and Trae will make him better offensively b/c of his passing.

Noone was going to turn that Portland team around.  I don't disagree that he has question marks about his motor, but that's why his asking price is low.  He really could be a great buy low candidate.  

Getting better as a team is often done by acquiring players who are viewed in a bad light for scraps.  If you only trade for the proven, rock solid, well respected names then you have to give up a fortune.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ayton was a 17 PPG players last year on 59% TS. That's really bad efficiency for a center (Okongwu 10 ppg on 68% TS for reference). 

This is true.  I think if you are an advocate for paying Ayton $34M you have to believe that his efficiency significantly improves with Trae feeding him.  I'm not convinced it improves enough to make him a serious weapon.

Quote

And his defense is not really an upgrade over Capela or even Okongwu. 

It is a downgrade until he improves his game.

[ShooterSays]

37 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ayton will never be on a championship team, as a starter or a backup playing meaningful minutes.

He went to the finals as a starter playing meaningful minutes and his team went up 2-0, but go on.

I'd take a chance on him, depending on the price. Only 2 years left on his contract so if it doesn't work out this year, he'd be an expiring next summer and we could probably move off of him.

The talent is there folks.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

I think any deal that potentially brings Ayton to Atlanta is at least a 3-team deal.  Sending Ingram to Portland, Ayton, Thybulle & Picks to Atlanta, DJM & Capela to NO. 

This would require picks plus more stuff from NOP. 

[Hawkish]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This would require picks plus more stuff from NOP. 

Thybulle can go somewhere else.  
 

I don’t think DJ is involved in an Ayton-focused trade.  Herb Jones better be coming back in that circumstance.

Edited Thursday at 02:38 PM by Hawkish

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

He's not a great defender, but is an elite rebounder, finisher, plays well with a good PG, and can stretch the floor. 

As a rebounder, he was 24th in rebounds per minute (excluding low minute players) compared to 4th for Capela.

As a finisher, he was less efficient than both CC and OO last season and his overall TS% was very underwhelming for a big.

As a floor spacer, he is a career 24% shooter on 3's and a 43% shooter on long 2's.

He also misses around 20 games a year and has all the motor issues you described.  

 

If we trade for him, it needs to reflect the fact that we are doing Portland a favor by removing $34M of unwanted salary from their books and we need to get paid for whatever balancing salary we include in the deal because we don't have that much in undesirable contracts.  Ayton's contract is toxic right now.  If he was a FA, he would probably get closer to half of what he will be paid the next two years.

 

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ayton was a 17 PPG players last year on 59% TS. That's really bad efficiency for a center (Okongwu 10 ppg on 68% TS for reference).  And Ayton cannot space the floor either-- he's the Brandon Ingram of centers.  He might be skilled, but not the ways that impact winning in the modern NBA.  And his defense is not really an upgrade over Capela or even Okongwu. 

Yes, I'm a big Ayton hater, never been a huge fan of him personally or his game.  He squandered a nice situation in Phoenix literally because he was a selfish player and did not put team first.  There is a 0% chance our FO is even considering this guy anyways so it's all kind of a moot point.

Sure that’s what the media tells you but what I witnessed is an non supporting coach who’d throw his player under the bus publicly.

Monte Williams is a joke as a coach . Then you have Booker who’s actually the selfish me first player running down the court taking shot after shot. Ayton opportunities only came from playing with CP3.

i won’t argue with you or anyone else on how you feel about ayton. I’ve already done that around here on multiple threads.

[JTB]

6 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

Thybulle can go somewhere else.  

What’s wrong with Thybulle ?

[ShooterSays]

I don’t think Ayton costs us DJM. Dejounte plays the more valuable position on a much much more valuable contract. He’d still probably be available to get us Ingram.

I think Ingram makes a lot of sense for us right now.

Trae / Zac / Ingram / JJ / Ayton

Bench: Kobe, Bogi, OO, Bey, Mo G. And maybe you could get Daniels too in a Murray for Ingram trade. 

We’re winning the division with this lineup.

[warcore]

25 minutes ago, JTB said:

but such a move probably requires DJ and unless we can get a lot more probably not a good move.

they have Simons and Scoot at the 1 and Sharpe at the 2..... they are not the DJ trade partner we're looking for. 

I would suspect they want to get off his contract more than anything and tank for the 2025 draft. Although the Deni trade doesn't line up with that... but maybe they don't even know what they're doing. 

Clint's big expiring is the ideal trade chip needed to bring him in. Otherwise we're in the tax which Tony won't approve of. 

[JTB]

4 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

I don’t think Ayton costs us DJM. Dejounte plays the more valuable position on a much much more valuable contract. He’d still probably be available to get us Ingram.

I think Ingram makes a lot of sense for us right now.

Trae / Zac / Ingram / JJ / Ayton

Bench: Kobe, Bogi, OO, Bey, Mo G. And maybe you could get Daniels too in a Murray for Ingram trade. 

We’re winning the division with this lineup.

I like it but I know right now many others hate it  

[Hawkish]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

What’s wrong with Thybulle ?

I just recall him lacking skills in our Philly series.  He was athletic and strong defensively but considerably limited on offense.

[AtLaS]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

As a rebounder, he was 24th in rebounds per minute (excluding low minute players) compared to 4th for Capela.

As a finisher, he was less efficient than both CC and OO last season and his overall TS% was very underwhelming for a big.

As a floor spacer, he is a career 24% shooter on 3's and a 43% shooter on long 2's.

He also misses around 20 games a year and has all the motor issues you described.  

 

If we trade for him, it needs to reflect the fact that we are doing Portland a favor by removing $34M of unwanted salary from their books and we need to get paid for whatever balancing salary we include in the deal because we don't have that much in undesirable contracts.  Ayton's contract is toxic right now.  If he was a FA, he would probably get closer to half of what he will be paid the next two years.

 

Agreed. I'm not suggesting we give up DJ in any package for Ayton unless there are multiple first rounders coming back.  I meant that I liked him as a buy low candidate.  

DJ to me should be worth 3 first rounders to a team needing a PG.  Considering his contract, age and production I think that is more than fair.  

We can then choose what to do with those picks whether that is keeping them or packaging for a better fitting player.

[dalamchops]

ayton's offensive game is so much better than OO/CC, even though he doesn't shoot 3s, has a legit enough mid range game to really unclog the middle for trae. We would've had so many more chances at wins last season if CC quit missing around the rim.

defensively CC's really fallen off since our ECF run.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

Sure that’s what the media tells you but what I witnessed is an non supporting coach who’d throw his player under the bus publicly.

Monte Williams is a joke as a coach . Then you have Booker who’s actually the selfish me first player running down the court taking shot after shot. Ayton opportunities only came from playing with CP3.

i won’t argue with you or anyone else on how you feel about ayton. I’ve already done that around here on multiple threads.

Him getting benched in the playoffs and everything isn't a good look but the clips of him just not trying are the ones that really curdle the milk for me.  

We've all seen this but WTF is he doing here?

 

[dalamchops]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

As a rebounder, he was 24th in rebounds per minute (excluding low minute players) compared to 4th for Capela.

As a finisher, he was less efficient than both CC and OO last season and his overall TS% was very underwhelming for a big.

As a floor spacer, he is a career 24% shooter on 3's and a 43% shooter on long 2's.

He also misses around 20 games a year and has all the motor issues you described.  

 

If we trade for him, it needs to reflect the fact that we are doing Portland a favor by removing $34M of unwanted salary from their books and we need to get paid for whatever balancing salary we include in the deal because we don't have that much in undesirable contracts.  Ayton's contract is toxic right now.  If he was a FA, he would probably get closer to half of what he will be paid the next two years.

 

DA 0-3ft 76%, 3-10ft 54% 10-16ft 45%

CC 0-3ft 64% 3-10ft 43%  10-16ft 43% (probably very few attempts)