2024-25 Insider Thread

[theheroatl]

Valanciunas or Allen.. Smith, no thanks. 

 

I consider Jarrett Allen a massive stud on defense. As proven by his average yearly defensive BPM:

Jarrett Allen:

 

 

So I prefer him. Jonas is a great backup option if Cleveland won't complete a deal. 

 

Edited June 29 by theheroatl

[Afro]

23 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

Daniels actually has a lot of Delon similarities already 

Oh so we're gonna let him walk? Lol

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Bonzaii58 said:

I have this concern too. After taking some time and thinking over this trade a little more I think there has to be another move to be made.
 

I really wanted us to get Herb from the Pelicans and the fact that we couldn’t find a way to do that or even bring in Ingram (who I really didn’t want anyway but at least he is a scorer) tells me they simply did not want him. It does not mean they could not have gotten him but there may be another player via trade or FA they’d prefer to have. We gave up Murray but still have Hunter, Capela, and OO who are all expendable via trade and could be flipped for someone much better.
 

Anyway, I  think we could have gotten Ingram but maybe it doesn’t match with Landry’s vision. And whatever it is I hope we all see it within the next week before we all lose our minds

Good post.  I 100% agree on Ingram.  We could have had him.

The two big problems with Ingram being part of the deal are:

(1) You can't get out from being a tax paying team by adding him and I strongly believe that getting under the tax was a top priority in moving DJM.

(2) If you don't intend to sign Ingram for the $45M-50M / year he is likely to demand and get, then you might as well add someone like Dyson who could be a long-term part of the team instead.

[JTB]

Just now, AHF said:

I don't believe Daniels is a starter.  I think we are most likely to start Risacher and Hunter where both of them are viable scoring / shooting threats.  I think it is likely that Bogi is the fist guy off the bench for offense and Daniels for defense.

If we keep Hunter then I agree this is a potential lineup and I’ll be ok with it.

maybe then a possibility of a Allen trade makes sense. We still don’t have another go to scorer outside of Trae but we have more offense cause Hunter is in the lineup (even though I like bench Hunter).

Trae, Risacher, Hunter, Jalen, Allen 

 

I can get behind this starting lineup (I think)

[JTB]

4 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Valanciunas or Allen.. Smith, no thanks. 

 

I consider Jarrett Allen a massive stud on defense. So I prefer him. Jonas is a great backup option if Cleveland won't complete a deal.

 

Allen would be a great get here defensively.

i don’t mind Jonas because he can shoot but more than likely in the Jonas situation we probably play OO as the primary starter and that worry’s me.

OO has incredible heart and motivation but he can’t do anything about getting overpowered or dealing with guys much bigger then he is.

[theheroatl]

Can we sign Slowmo or will he resign with the Wolves? I'm sure he will absolutely be one of the hot free agents for team MLE out there. And definitely a Wolves priority. What about offering him more than the team MLE in a sign and trade? He is worth $15m IMO.

 

That way you beat out the market for one of the best defensive wings there is.

Edited June 29 by theheroatl

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Couple of points on this one: we did just use the JC TPE in the Murray trade and created a new TPE to roll another year.  Also, we didnt sell JC at the bottom of his value, his value is actually still going down.

We missed the window for trading JC for value.  Clearly.  I'm not going to speculate on whether his value has changed today after putting up better numbers in Utah despite a very strange fit with their frontcourt.

On the TPE, did you even read the post you quoted?  I already addressed this.

Quote

So final judgement comes now as the TPE expires unused for any purpose that we could not have accomplished without it

...

(Fool me once on the TPE.  To do something we can’t do without it means using it in a way to add salary we could not otherwise have added.  We essentially “used it” to renew it at a smaller value.  That is better than nothing but only becomes something meaningful when actually used to add a contract you could not have added without it.  Do we Charlie Brown fans think that the FO is going to do that this time now that this new TPE has been created?  Line that football up and let’s see.)

 

Couple of other responses:

1 hour ago, JTB said:

I’m not opposed to keeping Hunter either. Just saying Bench Hunter was great!

Since there’s so many eyes in having all these wing players, why not just keep him.

I would rather attach a first with Capela and ship him off alone now that I think about it 

As of today, I think keeping Hunter is essential or it is essential to get back a wing who can score and defend in his place which is going to be tough to do.  I am betting on him still being here or us dumping his salary and missing him next year.

1 hour ago, hylndr11 said:

Daniels actually improved throughout the year on his offense, it was always what it was but he has consistently improved it slowly in 2 years, we need to chill on this he will always have no offense stuff.  It's way harder to get guys to play D much less be elite at it.

It wasn't a big change on offense over the year.  The biggest variability in his per game scoring was his minutes per game (example:  his  highest points per game was in November because that was his highest minutes per game).  He shot a bit better as the year went along (a trend that went the other direction his rookie season) but his points per minute were very similar month to month:

[phoostal]

After having more time and reading up on all aspects of the trade, I officially like this trade.   

I was underwhelmed at first, but I think this was probably The best move we could make at this time. 

I'm excited about our next moves.  Not just our insiders but people in the media expect us to be very active in improving the team. 

Also, Trae I feel isn't getting traded.   Unless he flat out ask out.  Listening to Koonin he says the team is going to be better than last year.   You can't say that if you're trading Trae.  If he ask out that's another story. 

I can't wait to see what happens in the next week to 10 days.   The front office and coach have a plan and they are executing it.  Better than what we have had in past seasons. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

42 minutes ago, Megaloxali said:

Can you explain how we used the JC TPE on the Murray trade? 

We took Nance ($11 mil) and Daniels ($6 mil) into the JC TPE. So there is $6 mil of the TPE left.

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

Couple of other responses:

As of today, I think keeping Hunter is essential or it is essential to get back a wing who can score and defend in his place which is going to be tough to do.  I am betting on him still being here or us dumping his salary and missing him next year.

 

You may be right that we keep him because the only other wings who can score and defend appear to be out of our price range.

Ingram, Butler, George ….none of those players are walking through the door for us anytime soon.

Because of this I feel we should go for a scoring center in Ayton who’s more than capable of also being good defensively.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, Bonzaii58 said:

Anyway, I  think we could have gotten Ingram but maybe it doesn’t match with Landry’s vision. And whatever it is I hope we all see it within the next week before we all lose our minds

I don't think the Hawks are/were prepared to pay him the kind of salary he was seeking.

[JeffS17]

Ingram clearly isnt the type of player our FO covets.  I dont think its much more than that, regardless of salary or trade options, etc. Just dont think weve ever been interested in him.

[ABH]

40 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Can we sign Slowmo or will he resign with the Wolves? I'm sure he will absolutely be one of the hot free agents for team MLE out there. And definitely a Wolves priority. What about offering him more than the team MLE in a sign and trade? He is worth $15m IMO.

 

That way you beat out the market for one of the best defensive wings there is.

You know we can't sign anyone..no one wants to come here

[Final_quest]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

I’m going to judge each move as it happens but the entire offseason only when it was done.  Here is the analogy.

 I said the JC for garbage trade was crap last year when it happened. Clearly we could have gotten more from him by managing that in a better way (most notably by trading him earlier) and we sold at the bottom of his value for no basketball reason (just a $$ reason).  But I recognized that we also got the TPE and that could end up being used to add a great player so that not only would we not be paper thin at PF necessarily we could end up picking up a great player.  
 

So final judgement comes now as the TPE expires unused for any purpose that we could not have accomplished without it:  It was a s**t trade that left us undermanned last year and hurt us on the basketball court and served no purpose other than dodging the tax.  On the buy low, sell high spectrum TS bought high and LF sold low.  Front office fail.

(Fool me once on the TPE.  To do something we can’t do without it means using it in a way to add salary we could not otherwise have added.  We essentially “used it” to renew it at a smaller value.  That is better than nothing but only becomes something meaningful when actually used to add a contract you could not have added without it.  Do we Charlie Brown fans think that the FO is going to do that this time now that this new TPE has been created?  Line that football up and let’s see.)

JC had an injury that seemed to tank his value.  When we traded him our payroll was waaaayyy over the luxury tax line.  Extremely unfortunate, but the biggest mistake with JC was always the contract.  Keeping him in hopes of restoring his value would have required us to either pay beyond the second apron level.  By some measures he was among the worst starters in the league last year.  No better options would have emerged by keeping him longer.

Preserving the TPE is smart.  Using the TPE to add talent when you are hard capped and put yourself in 2nd apron penalties is not smart.  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

WOW! I think that's a record.

 

....and counting!

 

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ingram clearly isnt the type of player our FO covets.  I dont think its much more than that, regardless of salary or trade options, etc. Just dont think weve ever been interested in him.

For once, I think you're right, jeffe. 

If they wanted Ingram, they would've gotten him when these talks were initially happening. 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Forget high priced centers like Ayton and Allen....I would look for MLE type Centers to backup OO.

 

 

More here:

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2024-nba-free-agent-rankings-top-centers-available-summer/

 

Yes on Jalen.  Absolutely not on Jonas.  

[JayBirdHawk]

State of the Hawks Post Draft.

 

Atlanta Hawks

Offseason transactions: Zaccharie Risacher (first round), Dyson Daniels (trade), Larry Nance Jr. (trade), E.J. Liddell (trade)

Offseason priority: The Dejounte Murray trade to New Orleans now clears a path to extend Jalen Johnson.

The forward averaged career highs in points (16.1) and 3-point percentage (35.3%). Overall, Johnson has increased his scoring average from 5.6 last season to 16.1 this season. That is the second-largest increase among players to play at least 50 games in both seasons, trailing Cam Thomas. Johnson ranked in the bottom-10 in field goal percentage on all jumpers last season but saw an increase this year, going from 29% to 39%.

Since Landry Fields joined the front office in October 2020, Atlanta has signed a player to a rookie extension in each of the past three offseasons (Trae Young, Kevin Huerter, De'Andre Hunter and Onyeka Okongwu). Young is eligible to sign a three-year, $157 million extension up until Oct. 21.

More offseason priorities:

• The price point on a new contract for Saddiq Bey

• The Johnson rookie extension

Team needs:

• Rim-protector and defensive depth on the perimeter

• Playmaker who can create shots for others

• Shooting off the bench

• Improved availability from the rotation forwards (Hunter, Bey, Johnson)

• Forward depth

Future draft assets rating: 6 out of 10

Atlanta received two first-round picks as part of the Murray trade, including the Lakers unprotected first in 2025. They also receive the least favorable 2027 first of New Orleans or Milwaukee. The Hawks will send their 2025 and 2027 picks to San Antonio as part of the trade that brought Murray to Atlanta in 2022. San Antonio also has the right to swap firsts in 2026. The first allowable year the Hawks can trade a first is 2029. Atlanta has six second-round picks available.

Cash: $7.3 million (to send) | $7.3 million (to receive)

Cap space breakdown: Atlanta has $166 million in salary and are $5.5 million below the luxury tax. They are also $9.5 million below the first apron.

Available exceptions: $12.9 million non tax mid-level, $4.7 million biannual, veteran minimum and trade ($23, $3.7, $2.6 and $2.3 million).

CBA impact: Because Atlanta sent cash to Miami, they are now hard capped at the $189.5 million second apron. They are $20.3 million below the threshold.

Projected Depth Chart - Atlanta

PG	SG	SF	PF	C
T. Young	D. Daniels	D. Hunter	J. Johnson	C. Capela
L. Nance	G. MathewsT	Z. Risacher	EJ Liddell	O. Okongwu
K. Bufkin		B. Bogdanovic	M. Gueye	B. FernandoN
N: Non-guaranteed; T: Team option

 

 

Extension eligible: Young, Johnson and Clint Capela (as of July 6); Wesley Matthews; Fernando (as of Oct. 2)

Free agent status

• Saddiq Bey | Bird | Restricted free agent

• Garrison Mathews | Bird | Team option

• Wesley Matthews | Non-Bird | Unrestricted free agent

• Trent Forrest | Early Bird | UFA

• Vit Krejci | Non-Bird | RFA

• Seth Lundy | Non-Bird | RFA

• Dylan Windler | Non-Bird | UFA

ESPN +

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40286276/nba-free-agency-2024-priorities-player-needs-30-teams-draft-outlook

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Preserving the TPE is smart.  Using the TPE to add talent when you are hard capped and put yourself in 2nd apron penalties is not smart.  

I agree preserving the TPE is smart.  I don't understand under what scenario we could have used the TPE to get someone that we could not acquire in a straight trade that you think we would have put ourselves in 2nd apron penalties last season.  My explanation for saying we did not use the JC TPE comes down to the idea that we were sold the TPE was the real vehicle for adding value to the basketball side of things when we got nothing from the JC trade.  We in fact added nothing and ran with major holes on our roster instead.  That is not using the TPE for anything basketball related.

We obviously did not preserve the entire TPE but preserving a chunk of it is better than nothing.  But in light of our inactivity last year it invites the question of my mind as to whether you think we will actually use it for anything other than creating new TPEs this year.  I am highly skeptical that will happen.

[KB21]

19 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ingram clearly isnt the type of player our FO covets.  I dont think its much more than that, regardless of salary or trade options, etc. Just dont think weve ever been interested in him.

He’s a terrible fit for Quin and alongside Trae.  He’s a taller Murray, and Murray’s size wasn’t the issue. His desire to slow the offense and isolate so he could get to his mid-range game was the issue.  Ingram does the same thing.  Ingram is never going to be a player that either shoots the three or attacks the rim no matter who he has at PG.