Welcome to Atlanta, Dyson Daniels

[AHF]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

DD can be a taller Derrick White. He's a significantly more talented player than Thabo. Thabo wasn't an elite defender. He was very good but he was purely a specialist. Offensively, Thabo left a lot to be desired. I don't see your comp at all. Thabo is limited. DD isn't 

 

I'll give Thabo the defensive BBIQ edge based on his peak but that's as good as it gets. DD can defend more positions as well. 

I’m not comparing them because I think their ceilings are the same.  I am comparing them because I expect a similar defensive impact and was pointing out the comparison between DD’s production in a pretty similar role in NO to Thabo’s role here.  For example, Dyson actually was worse than Thabo was as a scorer in Atlanta as shown by the fact that Thabo scored more and more efficiently in Atlanta than DD did in NO.  The reason that isn’t me claiming they have the same ceiling as scorers should be obvious (beyond the fact that I didn’t say it).  One was 19 and 20 those seasons while the other was 30-32.  

Some are predicting scoring like 16 PPG on 37% 3pt shooting for Dyson this year.  I hope that is right but I think it sets the bar unreasonably high in light of his very modest numbers career to date.  My expectations are much more modest than that even though I expect his per36 to improve over his single digit scoring last year.

FWIW, guy I’ve seen people around thr Australian National Team compare him to is Thybulle.  Thybulle is pretty similar to Thabo in my mind.  To be clear, I expect more from DD than that as well.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I’m not comparing them because I think their ceilings are the same.  I am comparing them because I expect a similar defensive impact and was pointing out the comparison between DD’s production in a pretty similar role in NO to Thabo’s role here.  For example, Dyson actually was worse than Thabo was as a scorer in Atlanta as shown by the fact that Thabo scored more and more efficiently in Atlanta than DD did in NO.  The reason that isn’t me claiming they have the same ceiling as scorers should be obvious (beyond the fact that I didn’t say it).  One was 19 and 20 those seasons while the other was 30-32.  

Some are predicting scoring like 16 PPG on 37% 3pt shooting for Dyson this year.  I hope that is right but I think it sets the bar unreasonably high in light of his very modest numbers career to date.  My expectations are much more modest than that even though I expect his per36 to improve over his single digit scoring last year.

FWIW, guy I’ve seen people around thr Australian National Team compare him to is Thybulle.  Thybulle is pretty similar to Thabo in my mind.  To be clear, I expect more from DD than that as well.

Difference for Dyson this year over last, Trae Young.

 

[REHawksFan]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:32 AM, thecampster said:

Difference for Dyson this year over last, Trae Young.

 

It's hard to imagine, but I think sometimes people forget the impact Trae has on players around him offensively. 

[bleachkit]

4 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

It's hard to imagine, but I think sometimes people forget the impact Trae has on players around him offensively. 

So what numbers are you expecting from him?

[NBASupes]

On 8/3/2024 at 7:23 AM, AHF said:

I’m not comparing them because I think their ceilings are the same.  I am comparing them because I expect a similar defensive impact and was pointing out the comparison between DD’s production in a pretty similar role in NO to Thabo’s role here.  For example, Dyson actually was worse than Thabo was as a scorer in Atlanta as shown by the fact that Thabo scored more and more efficiently in Atlanta than DD did in NO.  The reason that isn’t me claiming they have the same ceiling as scorers should be obvious (beyond the fact that I didn’t say it).  One was 19 and 20 those seasons while the other was 30-32.  

Some are predicting scoring like 16 PPG on 37% 3pt shooting for Dyson this year.  I hope that is right but I think it sets the bar unreasonably high in light of his very modest numbers career to date.  My expectations are much more modest than that even though I expect his per36 to improve over his single digit scoring last year.

FWIW, guy I’ve seen people around thr Australian National Team compare him to is Thybulle.  Thybulle is pretty similar to Thabo in my mind.  To be clear, I expect more from DD than that as well.

I am expecting more scoring wise from Risacher than Daniels. DD isn't really a high volume shot taker. Even for Australia. What he's doing is really what i expect with the Hawks. 29mpg, 13ppg, 4 3papg. That's double of what Thabo gives you. 

Risacher is the one I am expecting 15-18ppg from. He's just a superior offensive player. He's always moving, he doesn't pass up open shots. DD hasn't for Australia but has for NO although he doesn't get many open attempts for NO. Risacher just has a superior scoring instinct and he fits Trae a lot more. The short and small movement, always cutting, always finding holes in the defense. He is the player which should benefit the most from Trae ball of anyone since JC and more than JC because you can sell out to defend JC and the 1/4 PnR but you can do that with Risacher style of play. Risacher is who I am expecting to shine. Even with the 2nd unit, I can easily see Risacher giving us 12ppg. 

[NBASupes]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:32 AM, thecampster said:

Difference for Dyson this year over last, Trae Young.

 

I've said this a thousand times and I am one that's not convinced Trae is a different maker for perimeter players. That said, Atlanta should be much easier for DD than NO just due to the natural space Atlanta will have with guys like JJ, Risacher, Hunter, Bogi, and Kobe compared to the guys who need the middy or close shot attempts which NO had. 

5 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

It's hard to imagine, but I think sometimes people forget the impact Trae has on players around him offensively. 

Trae biggest advantages really don't favor perimeter players but he does give you a lot of open looks and if you are always moving which most guys aren't, Trae is very beneficial to you which speaks to Risacher who is a max perimeter fit. Truth is, DD is an ideal fit for Trae so both players are guys I coveted for Trae for years and it's hard to find and even harder to land them. 

[Gray Mule]

This upcoming Atlanta Hawk season brings us a new-look team.  Most "experts" expect this team's record to mirror last season's record.  Personally, I see this Hawk team as being much improved.  We're still very deep at center and sallow at the PG position behind Trae.  This may change before tip-off of the season.

[REHawksFan]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

So what numbers are you expecting from him?

To be very clear....

I expect his biggest impact to be on the defensive end.  

As for offensive numbers, my expectation is more about increasing his willingness to shoot.  Trae will get guys open, even guys on the perimeter.  We've seen Trae get Dre and Bogi open looks.  So for me, I want to see him avg 10-12 shots per game ideally.  I think that would put him in the 13-15 pts per game range.  He may not get there year 1, but I think he's capable.  

I also firmly believe DD will do things that help the offense that may not always show up in the box score.  Deflections that lead to fast breaks.  A rebound that he starts transition in.  Moving without the ball.  I could see 6-8 reb and 5-7 ast in time.  I just think he's going to be a very valuable player.  

I'm not at all saying he'll be avg 20+ pts per game or anything.  Just that he'll be very impactful and fit with Trae very very well.  

[AHF]

A per game of 13 points on a good ts%, 6 rebounds and 5 assists (the low end on all three) to go with the projected All-NBA level defense would be a fantastic first season in Atlanta.  I hope you guys are right.  I’m expecting more modest production to go with the impact defense this season.

[Wurider05]

Do you all think that Quin will have him starting? 1

[benhillboy]

A quick glance at DD’s metrics shows he’s likely gonna hit the ground running.  If he can duplicate his 2.5 defensive box from last season I’ll have no complaints, no perimeter player in the Trae era has even come remotely close outside of Point D Delon at 2.4.  I love how the first lineup he registers in had the most explosive point differential by far among the most used for the Pels:

 

Bona fide difference maker on game flow.  Our top on floor per 100 guy was Big Balls Bogi by far at 1.9, DD crushes him at 4.2 last season.  That’s usually elite reserve/ damn good starter values on a middle seed squad.

I been bitching about perimeter cutters and screeners on this team for years.  If he’s consistent the rest of his offense will flow trust in that.

Edited August 5 by benhillboy

[REHawksFan]

12 hours ago, Wurider05 said:

Do you all think that Quin will have him starting? 1

With the caveat that it probably doesn't matter if he's technically starting, I still say yes.  I think he starts next to Trae at the 2.  If Trae plays 35 min a night, I'd play DD 28-30 min next to Trae.  

Trae/DD/Hunter or ZR/JJ/OO is how I think it plays out.  

That gives you Bogi with Hunter or ZR, Nance, and Clint off the bench.  Kobe as well, although I think he's clearly the 10th man and will likely get only bit minutes.  I think you'll see DD, JJ, and Bogi doing some of the ball handling when Trae sits.  I could be way off on Kobe, but I'm only expecting 8-10 mpg from him this year.   

I'm thinking something like this:

1 - Trae (33-35) / Kobe (8-10) / DD (3-5)

2 - DD (18-20) / BB (18-20) / ZR (8-10)

3 - DH (24) / DD (7-9) / BB (8-10) / ZR (7-9)

*DH would also play a few min per game at the 4

Edited August 5 by REHawksFan

[NBASupes]

29 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

With the caveat that it probably doesn't matter if he's technically starting, I still say yes.  I think he starts next to Trae at the 2.  If Trae plays 35 min a night, I'd play DD 28-30 min next to Trae.  

Trae/DD/Hunter or ZR/JJ/OO is how I think it plays out.  

That gives you Bogi with Hunter or ZR, Nance, and Clint off the bench.  Kobe as well, although I think he's clearly the 10th man and will likely get only bit minutes.  I think you'll see DD, JJ, and Bogi doing some of the ball handling when Trae sits.  I could be way off on Kobe, but I'm only expecting 8-10 mpg from him this year.   

I'm thinking something like this:

1 - Trae (33-35) / Kobe (8-10) / DD (3-5)

2 - DD (18-20) / BB (18-20) / ZR (8-10)

3 - DH (24) / DD (7-9) / BB (8-10) / ZR (7-9)

*DH would also play a few min per game at the 4

Risacher is gonna start. Zero chance he doesn't. DD should start. Bogi and Hunter have been better off the bench based on last year. Why start either when Daniels and Risacher both need Trae and neither Dre or Bogi needs Trae. 

Edited August 5 by NBASupes

[Final_quest]

18 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

This upcoming Atlanta Hawk season brings us a new-look team.  Most "experts" expect this team's record to mirror last season's record.  Personally, I see this Hawk team as being much improved.  We're still very deep at center and sallow at the PG position behind Trae.  This may change before tip-off of the season.

Experts are eventually trained to align their analysis towards clicks.  Promoting the Hawks doesn't bring in clicks.  We haven't been good enough for them to be forced to talk about us since the ECF.  

Gonna be really interesting to see if defense, fit, and youth will have a more positive impact than having guys like Murray and Collins.  Typically younger teams and lineup changes struggle, but our defense was so bad last year.  Improving defense helps a lot.  

[REHawksFan]

34 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Risacher is gonna start. Zero chance he doesn't. DD should start. Bogi and Hunter have been better off the bench based on last year. Why start either when Daniels and Risacher both need Trae and neither Dre or Bogi needs Trae. 

I hope you are right.  I would be fine with it.  But I guess I'll believe they start a rookie over DH when I see it.  I agree Hunter is better off the bench.  

[AHF]

51 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Risacher is gonna start. Zero chance he doesn't. DD should start. Bogi and Hunter have been better off the bench based on last year. Why start either when Daniels and Risacher both need Trae and neither Dre or Bogi needs Trae. 

Bogi's numbers are almost identical off the bench and starting last year.

Starter:

17.0 points on .572% TS%

3.8 rebounds

3.5 assists

1.5 stocks

 

Off the Bench:

16.8 points on .568% TS%

3.2 rebounds

2.8 assists

1.5 stocks

 

Career numbers are very similar breakdowns as well.

 

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Experts are eventually trained to align their analysis towards clicks.  Promoting the Hawks doesn't bring in clicks.  We haven't been good enough for them to be forced to talk about us since the ECF.  

Gonna be really interesting to see if defense, fit, and youth will have a more positive impact than having guys like Murray and Collins.  Typically younger teams and lineup changes struggle, but our defense was so bad last year.  Improving defense helps a lot.  

And even the ECF season we were an afterthought until about game 5 of the Philly series.

It took until the game 1 win against Milwaukee for them to say “hold up, the Hawks may actually be this good and make the finals.”

Winning matters, winning consistently matters more. We have to get out to a fast start (been saying this for years) otherwise the narratives will be outlined for the season by the time we get to Christmas.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

And even the ECF season we were an afterthought until about game 5 of the Philly series.

It took until the game 1 win against Milwaukee for them to say “hold up, the Hawks may actually be this good and make the finals.”

Winning matters, winning consistently matters more. We have to get out to a fast start (been saying this for years) otherwise the narratives will be outlined for the season by the time we get to Christmas.

I would add if an NBA writer or analyst even tries to be objective about the Hawks they have only seen us play five times or less.  There is no way we’re gonna get fair or accurate analysis.  

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Risacher is gonna start. Zero chance he doesn't. DD should start. Bogi and Hunter have been better off the bench based on last year. Why start either when Daniels and Risacher both need Trae and neither Dre or Bogi needs Trae. 

I don't see it happening. That would mean 2 possible 3 new starters if OO starts.

As complex as everyone kept saying Quin's offense is, two new starters, one being a rookie doesn't scream winning and starting the new season strong.

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't see it happening. That would mean 2 possible 3 new starters if OO starts.

As complex as everyone kept saying Quin's offense is, two new starters, one being a rookie doesn't scream winning and starting the new season strong.

Heh, it's 2 new starters.  Trust me.