Did we get enough value in the Murray trade?

[Gray Mule]

Pelican's gain experience, age, with this trade.  Compare the two.

Murray is 6'5" and was born 8/19/96, making him 27 years of age.

Daniels is 6'7" and was born 3/17/03, making him 21 years of age.

Murray is ready to step right in and start for the Pelicans.  Daniels, when he was added to the Hawks roster, became their best defender.  Wow!  The question arises, can he improve his offense?  At age 21, he still has time, don't you think.  After all, Murray improved his three-point shot after he became a Hawk.  

At this season's end we will know a lot more about how these two fit with their new team.  I believe both teams should be pleased with their new players.  Anything we got after we traded these two is just gravy on the deal!!

[deester11]

6 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

@deester11 @bird_dirt @AHF

 

Which one of yall wants to take a 1:12 avatar bet on both Milwaukee and Pels landing a top 4 pick in 27? If they are both in the top 4 so our pick doesnt convey, you control my avatar for 1 year, otherwise I control yours for 1 month.

 

All this nonsense about the secondary protection "moving the needle in a bad way" is downright silly. Put your money where your mouth is.

You can make a bet on anything. I'm betting Ham prices will rise, frogs will have legs and JLo will remain talentless. So what? The needle is mid, average, and meh. You like the moves...hooray.  I expected more and still do. I bet that ain't changing no time soon. In other words that's a sucker's bet even if the Hawks are mid. 

[AHF]

7 hours ago, SalvorMallow said:

@deester11 @bird_dirt @AHF

 

Which one of yall wants to take a 1:12 avatar bet on both Milwaukee and Pels landing a top 4 pick in 27? If they are both in the top 4 so our pick doesnt convey, you control my avatar for 1 year, otherwise I control yours for 1 month.

 

All this nonsense about the secondary protection "moving the needle in a bad way" is downright silly. Put your money where your mouth is.

Obviously you didn’t read my post about the original pick protection (the worst of) or any of my more recent posts. I expect that pick to be a late first.  But low probability **** happens sometimes and this means if Giannis and Zion are lost for the year and both teams crater, for example, we get ****ed for no good reason.  If this is meaningless then NO will not blow up the deal over rejecting it.

[AHF]

11 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

A better question is who closes the close games. They could go offense/ defense or they could go smaller and play Trae/DD/Bogi/JJ

Agree.  Closing lineup seems like it should be based on how guys are playing and the game situation and it could be one, the other, or both.

[Afro]

42 minutes ago, AHF said:

Obviously you didn’t read my post about the original pick protection (the worst of) or any of my more recent posts. I expect that pick to be a late first.  But low probability **** happens sometimes and this means if Giannis and Zion are lost for the year and both teams crater, for example, we get ****ed for no good reason.  If this is meaningless then NO will not blow up the deal over rejecting it.

That last line is the part I dont see how people fail to grasp. 

If it's meaningless....why exactly did NOP want it in there? 

Okay, it doesn't matter. So why are we on the losing side of "it doesn't matter"? 

[macdaddy]

I'm late to the party but we absolutely won the trade.   DJ is about the only player the Hawks ever showcased for trade.  Getting 2 firsts plus an 3rd year wing with elite D is a good haul.  It's not a steal but we definitely won.  I just don't think DJ is the difference maker that folks think he is.   The Pels are going to still be looking for another all star to go with Zion in order to really contend.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, deester11 said:

JLo will remain talentless

I beg your pardon? 

[deester11]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

I beg your pardon? 

The talent she does have aint singing or acting.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm late to the party

Fashionably as always it’s your MO.

[Afro]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

16.5 points

6.5 rebounds 

3.5 assists 

1.5 steals

1.0 blocks

47% FG

34% 3p%

 

This post isn't directed at you, but I think it's well organized so it's the best one to respond to lol. 

Are you saying that's this year? Or just some point in the future? 

I just want to give some statistical context, because I see a lot of "he will definitely explode with more minutes". 

His minutes per game went up from 17 to 22 from year one to year 2. We're expecting a jump from 22 to 30ish probably in year 3. 

In year 2 he averaged 6,3, 4, and 1.5 steals in 22mpg. 

Those numbers saw an increase of +2, +.5, +.5, +.7 from year 1 to 2 with  the 5mpg increase. 

This is where I start to think some of these projections are unreasonable and a bit unfair to DD. In year 3? Absolutely. But some are projecting that some of his counting stats will more than double, immediately, with 8 more mpg, and I just don't see where that's a fair thing to put on DD. 

Edited July 8 by Afro

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, deester11 said:

The talent she does have aint singing or acting.

[deester11]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm late to the party but we absolutely won the trade.   DJ is about the only player the Hawks ever showcased for trade.  Getting 2 firsts plus an 3rd year wing with elite D is a good haul.  It's not a steal but we definitely won.  I just don't think DJ is the difference maker that folks think he is.   The Pels are going to still be looking for another all star to go with Zion in order to really contend.  

Win? Hardly.  I can squint and see push. The story needs to be written.  But as @AHF eloquently put it (in different words), you let NO punk you into a protection on a pick. You're getting a great defensive player (+move), and even then your hoping he unlocks more on offense. It will be needed. The firsts you got back are not meaningless per se, but again that's IF things break right. At its surface, "win" is a stretch. 

Edited July 8 by deester11

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm late to the party but we absolutely won the trade.   DJ is about the only player the Hawks ever showcased for trade.  Getting 2 firsts plus an 3rd year wing with elite D is a good haul.  It's not a steal but we definitely won.  I just don't think DJ is the difference maker that folks think he is.   The Pels are going to still be looking for another all star to go with Zion in order to really contend.  

More truth here than we wanna admit.  NOP will be desperately lookin to trade McCollum soon as a way to salvage things.  Mark my words, Mark. 

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

It's true, squd.  She can't sing and her acting is bad.  She was a great dancer at one point tho.  Her talent is now 'being famous'. 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, Afro said:

This post isn't directed at you, but I think it's well organized so it's the best one to respond to lol. 

Are you saying that's this year? Or just some point in the future? 

I just want to give some statistical context, because I see a lot of "he will definitely explode with more minutes". 

His minutes per game went up from 17 to 22 from year one to year 2. We're expecting a jump from 22 to 30ish probably in year 3. 

In year 2 he averaged 6,3, 4, and 1.5 steals in 22mpg. 

Those numbers saw an increase of +2, +.5, +.5, +.7 from year 1 to 2 with  the 5mpg increase. 

This is where I start to think some of these projections are unreasonable and a bit unfair to DD. In year 3? Absolutely. But some are projecting that all of his counting stats will more than double with 8 more mpg, and I just don't see where that's a fair thing to put on DD. 

You’re not taking in factors like a different system, a new coach, a bigger role. Also, numbers don’t go up incrementally when speaking of young players stats.

It’s not like it has to be :

Year 1: 2 ppg

Year 2: 4 ppg

Year 3: 6 ppg

NO, not at all,

Peep these couple dudes, now I’m not saying everyone takes leaps, but Drexler and Drazen sure did and with Drazen it was all based on opportunity.

OPPORTUNITY 

 

 

Edited July 8 by Spud2nique

[deester11]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's true, squd.  She can't sing and her acting is bad.  She was a great dancer at one point tho.  Her talent is now 'being famous'. 

Just ask her to sing you a Christmas song. You'll be begging for Jim Carrey's "Mr. Grinch."

[JeffS17]

18 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm late to the party but we absolutely won the trade.   DJ is about the only player the Hawks ever showcased for trade.  Getting 2 firsts plus an 3rd year wing with elite D is a good haul.  It's not a steal but we definitely won.  I just don't think DJ is the difference maker that folks think he is.   The Pels are going to still be looking for another all star to go with Zion in order to really contend.  

Where you been Big Mac??? Also I agree with your assessment assuming Daniels is who I think he will be 1-3 years from now.  DJ is high floor, low[er] ceiling, player, which is sort of tricky for valuation imo.  

[Afro]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

You’re not taking in factors like a different system, a new coach, a bigger role. Also, numbers don’t go up incrementally when speaking of young players stats.

It’s not like it has to be :

Year 1: 2 ppg

Year 2: 4 ppg

Year 3: 6 ppg

NO, not at all,

Peep these couple dudes, now I’m not saying everyone takes leaps, but Drexler and Drazen sure did and with Drazen it was all based on opportunity.

OPPORTUNITY 

 

Him tripling his PPG on 33% more mpg is a huge ask. This puts him somewhere close to tied with the expected output from actual scorers like Bogi and Zacc. 

For a guy that shot 64% FT and scored 6ppg in 22 minutes. To me, that it just asking a ton of DD, regardless of a scheme change. 

Idk how we got to this point and it makes me nervous if this is what we're gonna judge the trade on. 

I'm not shitting on DD at all here, kind of the opposite. 

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Win? Hardly.  I can squint and see push. The story needs to be written.  But as @AHF eloquently put it (in different words), you let NO punk you into a protection on a pick. You're getting a great defensive player (+move), and even then your hoping he unlocks more on offense. It will be needed. The firsts you got back are not meaningless per se, but again that's IF things break right. At its surface, "win" is a stretch. 

This is all based on the idea that DJ is worth a ton.  But if this isn't good return, and the whole league knew we were shopping him, how did we not get a better deal?   It's because the league knows his actual value vs what was propped up at the end of the season.  There's a reason a rebuilding Spurs team didn't want to keep him around.  

I'm not knocking him.  He's a great guy and a good player.  He's just not what people think he is. 

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's true, squd. 

She’s not Jenny from the block anymore.  

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Where you been Big Mac??? Also I agree with your assessment assuming Daniels is who I think he will be 1-3 years from now.  DJ is high floor, low[er] ceiling, player, which is sort of tricky for valuation imo.  

Patiently waiting for the Hawks to make another move.......