Welcome to Atlanta, Dominick Barlow

[AHF]

14 hours ago, Sothron said:

That's fair. I will say, just from risk/reward, this is a home run signing.

Home run transactions positively change the direction of the team.  This is a single for me until he is playing for the Atlanta Hawks and then it gets to move up from there depending on his performance.  Singles are good moves that don’t make much impact on the team which is what I currently expect from this and the Roddy deal - guys who don’t do much but make the 14th and 2-way roster spots better than they were before. If he plays like other two-way players we’ve had it remains a single.  If he becomes Bruce Bowen, Usonis Harlem, or Ben Wallace or or something it is a home run.  Some unclaimed players do become home run type impact players so I’m not going to rule that out but I can’t sign on to something being a home run when my expectation is that he only becomes a bottom of the roster player or emerges as a truly impactful player in 3 years for another team.  

For now, he is a guy who has played some NBA minutes that for some reason went overlooked by everyone else and who has some intriguing tools.  Will be rooting for him to maximize them.  I hope we look back and agree this turned out to be a home run move because we picked up a key member if our future rotation for free.
 

[Gray Mule]

Dominick Barlow is a young, 20-year-old headed to the Skyhawks.  Film looks good, naturally.  This deal is worthy of our keeping an eye on as we enter this season.  Hawks already had five centers and now we've added DB.  I suppose he replaces Bruno.

Some NBA team need a starting center?  Hawks may have what you need.  Anyone need a back-up center?  Inquire in Atlanta.  Finally, if any NBA team needs a 3rd string, end of the bench, center, we may have just what you need.  Give us a call.  Let's see what you have to offer.

Hawks continue to improve with their end of the bench players and their Skyhawks.  They made a major move early, trading Murray for players and draft picks.  Are they finished?  I think not.  Just waiting for the right deal.  We may have to wait until mid-season and the trade deadline.  

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Home run transactions positively change the direction of the team.  This is a single for me until he is playing for the Atlanta Hawks and then it gets to move up from there depending on his performance.  Singles are good moves that don’t make much impact on the team which is what I currently expect from this and the Roddy deal - guys who don’t do much but make the 14th and 2-way roster spots better than they were before. If he plays like other two-way players we’ve had it remains a single.  If he becomes Bruce Bowen, Usonis Harlem, or Ben Wallace or or something it is a home run.  Some unclaimed players do become home run type impact players so I’m not going to rule that out but I can’t sign on to something being a home run when my expectation is that he only becomes a bottom of the roster player or emerges as a truly impactful player in 3 years for another team.  

For now, he is a guy who has played some NBA minutes that for some reason went overlooked by everyone else and who has some intriguing tools.  Will be rooting for him to maximize them.  I hope we look back and agree this turned out to be a home run move because we picked up a key member if our future rotation for free.
 

This is pedantic— if you bucket transactions by type (stars, rotation guys, end of bench), this is clearly a home run for the end of the bench which is clearly what Soth meant by that… You have made a huge deal about filling out bench depth for the past two years and then we sign a very solid two way guy and you're still finding ways to downplay the move and discount peoples optimism.

[kg01]

26 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

This is pedantic— if you bucket transactions by type (stars, rotation guys, end of bench), this is clearly a home run for the end of the bench which is clearly what Soth meant by that… You have made a huge deal about filling out bench depth for the past two years and then we sign a very solid two way guy and you're still finding ways to downplay the move and discount peoples optimism.

"Pedantic"?  What's that?  Like having a foot fetish?  If so, then I can definitely see you being pedantic. 

And I don't think ah was downplaying the signing.  Just seemed to disagree with the use of 'homerun'.  So the word I think you're looking for is 'semantics'.  If you really read what he said, instead of trying to be pedantic (), you'd notice he's also fairly optimistic about it.

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

"Pedantic"?  What's that?  Like having a foot fetish?  If so, then I can definitely see you being pedantic. 

And I don't think ah was downplaying the signing.  Just seemed to disagree with the use of 'homerun'.  So the word I think you're looking for is 'semantics'.  If you really read what he said, instead of trying to be pedantic (), you'd notice he's also fairly optimistic about it.

Pedantic and semantic both fit, and now your antics!..

[Spud2nique]

22 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Pedantic"?  What's that? 

Bobby AYE BEAR! 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

This is pedantic— if you bucket transactions by type (stars, rotation guys, end of bench), this is clearly a home run for the end of the bench which is clearly what Soth meant by that… You have made a huge deal about filling out bench depth for the past two years and then we sign a very solid two way guy and you're still finding ways to downplay the move and discount peoples optimism.

I view it like drafting Mo Gueye who I was happy we took a shot on.  It is nice and has the potential to be impactful but until someone like that actually plays and makes an impact then you can't sell me that it is a "home run."  You may view a home run as being someone who has no practical impact on the team but I do have a different standard than that. 

As far as "downplaying the move" and "discounting people's optimisim" we are talking about a two-way contract player right now.  How am I downplaying the move?  I'm just sharing my $.02 and don't agree with you that this is "clearly a home run."  That is a difference of opinion and perspective.  That difference is the reason we talk about these things. 

I already told you what I see as a home run for this type of player - someone no one really cares about but who carves out a role and plays impactful minutes.  Alex Caruso was once a two-way player.  That is a home run.  Austin Reaves was a two-way player; Duncan Robinson was a two-way player; Naz Reid; Lu Dort; etc.  These guys do occasionally carve out impactful roles on good teams and that kind of outlier performance is what is a home run for me.   Miami has had a bunch of guys no one else wanted who they develop and we see seize meaningful roles on the team.  That is a home run for this type of player.  

I'll be rooting for Barlow to do exactly that in Atlanta.  But if he ends up playing the vast majority of the season in the G-League before moving on to another team and then seizing a meaningful role or he ends up with a season more akin to Seth Lundy's season last year (which I would say was a near zero impact) that is in no way a home run for me.  I'm certainly not going to heap the expectation on him to be the next Naz Reid or be a failure.  Let's see how he does and evaluate based on that.

Using Vit as an example, I would rate him a double at this point based on his performance last year.  He definitely wasn't a big outlier success but he played some meaningful minutes and helped the team when it was decimated at the forward spots.  He stayed with the team and we get to see where he takes it from here.  I would consider a Vit type of season for Barlow to be a success.  Home runs aren't the only hits that count.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Bobby AYE BEAR! 

Your emoji game is on point, btw.  I don't think I've ever told you.  It's important to uplift folks when they do something good.  You're the emoji king. 

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I view it like drafting Mo Gueye who I was happy we took a shot on.  It is nice and has the potential to be impactful but until someone like that actually plays and makes an impact then you can't sell me that it is a "home run."  You may view a home run as being someone who has no practical impact on the team but I do have a different standard than that. 

As far as "downplaying the move" and "discounting people's optimisim" we are talking about a two-way contract player right now.  How am I downplaying the move?  I'm just sharing my $.02 and don't agree with you that this is "clearly a home run."  That is a difference of opinion and perspective.  That difference is the reason we talk about these things. 

I already told you what I see as a home run for this type of player - someone no one really cares about but who carves out a role and plays impactful minutes.  Alex Caruso was once a two-way player.  That is a home run.  Austin Reaves was a two-way player; Duncan Robinson was a two-way player; Naz Reid; Lu Dort; etc.  These guys do occasionally carve out impactful roles on good teams and that kind of outlier performance is what is a home run for me.   Miami has had a bunch of guys no one else wanted who they develop and we see seize meaningful roles on the team.  That is a home run for this type of player.  

I'll be rooting for Barlow to do exactly that in Atlanta.  But if he ends up playing the vast majority of the season in the G-League before moving on to another team and then seizing a meaningful role or he ends up with a season more akin to Seth Lundy's season last year (which I would say was a near zero impact) that is in no way a home run for me.  I'm certainly not going to heap the expectation on him to be the next Naz Reid or be a failure.  Let's see how he does and evaluate based on that.

Using Vit as an example, I would rate him a double at this point based on his performance last year.  He definitely wasn't a big outlier success but he played some meaningful minutes and helped the team when it was decimated at the forward spots.  He stayed with the team and we get to see where he takes it from here.  I would consider a Vit type of season for Barlow to be a success.  Home runs aren't the only hits that count.

I think some here feel like this signing will turn into the home runs you cited based on his potential and age.  You're effectively just disagreeing with them because the player hasn't already panned out yet.  It's true that you'll always be correct if you are waiting until things happen to form an opinion, but a good GM is constantly making good moves, even if some of them don't pan out.  It feels like you're taking this results-based attitude for only moves that are perceived as positive, only to occasionally flip to process-based judgement for other moves (i.e presupposing deal negotiation dynamics).

[AHF]

57 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think some here feel like this signing will turn into the home runs you cited based on his potential and age.  You're effectively just disagreeing with them because the player hasn't already panned out yet.  It's true that you'll always be correct if you are waiting until things happen to form an opinion, but a good GM is constantly making good moves, even if some of them don't pan out.  It feels like you're taking this results-based attitude for only moves that are perceived as positive, only to occasionally flip to process-based judgement for other moves (i.e presupposing deal negotiation dynamics).

I think you are reading things in that aren't there.  I generally don't view second round picks and two-way players as being significant.  For those to have significance, I do need to see something and will largely wait and see.  Is this player Alex Caruso or Sharife Cooper?  Does this bottom of the rotation player become a real nothing ala Omari Spellman, a true stud like Jalen Brunson (I have no Hawks for this slot), a significant role player like DMC (he probably isn't the best example but was a low $ FA), or a low impact rotation player like Mike Scott?  Unfortunately, the reality is that the Spellman and Scott outcomes are the most likely for these types of picks and FA acquisitions especially (at least historically) for the Hawks.  The Hawks are giving up so little in these transactions that I don't feel like you need to bash the team even if the player completely washes out.  There really isn't a process to evaluate.  You are going to fill all your 2-way slots, right?  So go sign the guys you like the best as prospects.  The only process consideration worth talking about here is the fact that our second round pick from this year's draft won't be in Atlanta if all our roster is filled.  Most second round picks and two-ways don't amount to anything so if we miss on a Roddy or Barlow then it isn't a big deal.  But it also shouldn't be expected to be a big deal for the team.  I don't expect home runs from these transactions because home run outcomes are outliers.

For players expected to enter the rotation and play major roles on the team, I am going to hold those transactions to a different standard and pay a lot more attention to process because it isn't simply "take a flier on a guy in the second round" or "take a flier on this FA that no one else has bothered to sign and hope for the best."  If we are giving up our best trade piece ala the DJM trade then that has huge implications for the next 3 years of this club.  Process is really important in that kind of deal and you can get into the optimal ways to execute the deal, the value return, etc. 

In that case, I'm not going to shrug my shoulders and say "I don't expect much but this is interesting so let's see how it pans out."  We better get a strong return as of the date of the deal for me to praise the deal.  I'm not going to wait and see because I feel like what we are trading and what we are getting back are more able to be evaluated in terms of value as of the date of the transaction.  How they develop from there is a second phase of those types of deals.  I'm not going to wait and see if trading Jeff Teague in March of 2014 for a second round pick is a good deal.  I'm going to go ahead and give my $.02 on what a good return should look like for him and then compare it against what we got.  Once the deal is done, I'm going to hope that we use that 2014 second round pick to take Nikola Jokic and that we maximize the **** out of that return.  But doing so won't make the original trade a good deal if the value we should have gotten for Teague was a first plus that second round pick.  What makes for a good deal and whether the deal is structured and executed in the best ways are much more complicated in these types of situations and more fertile ground for discussion, imo.  For some the JC trade was a huge victory for the team to get off of a bad contract, for others it was a huge failure where the team let an asset wither on the vine and then traded it for garbage, and for others it was somewhere in the middle.  

On significant transactions where we are talking about very significant value being given up and/or brought back, I expect reasonable minds to differ in how they evaluate those deals and even the standards by which such transactions are measured are going to differ from person to person (i.e., cap, competitiveness, draft, and other implications all being prioritized differently for different fans).

[JayBirdHawk]

It's a Two way contract. He's not even end of regular bench as yet.

I'm excited to see him.in CP.

I'd get really excited as soon as we convert him to an NBA contract with at least 2 guaranteed years.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's a Two way contract. He's not even end of regular bench as yet.

I'm excited to see him.in CP.

I'd get really excited as soon as we convert him to an NBA contract with at least 2 guaranteed years.

Yep.  As usual, Jay makes the point more succinctly than me.

Looks like a nice gamble.  Let’s see where it goes.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Yep.  As usual, Jay makes the point more succinctly than me.

Looks like a nice gamble.  Let’s see where it goes.

I said earlier we really need to hit on 2nd rounds and two ways that turn into real rotation depth. Vit is a good start, so is Garri Bird....but just don't want them having g to fill in as front line starters because we lack real depth in front of them.

[AHF]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I said earlier we really need to hit on 2nd rounds and two ways that turn into real rotation depth. Vit is a good start, so is Garri Bird....but just don't want them having g to fill in as front line starters because we lack real depth in front of them.

I’m not sold on either of them as longterm rotation pieces but both had much better second halves than first halves last season and I hope that continues.  Mathews has an obvious role as a stretch the floor, low volume shooter and the real question is whether he can be more than that limited role.  Vit is more of an all-around player.  The role is less obvious but the upside might be greater for that reason if he can keep improving.  His contract was a smart move from Fields to lock in the upside while limiting the downside.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 7/30/2024 at 3:05 PM, Sothron said:

For everyone bitching about our FO, this is an underrated steal of a 2 way contract. I'm honestly shocked he hasn't gotten a minimum contract at least from some other team. He's a real prospect that is a two way player.

And he's a light skinned brother so @RedDawg#8 can have another Hawks DNA player to cheer for!

And how many of our 2-way contracts have panned out?

While this may be an intriguing prospect, he is just that . . . a prospect.

I was giving them credit for the Murray and Bey trades.  But that has blown up in our faces.  Their star coaching hire has a worse winning percentage with the Hawks than Nate.

 

This Front Office deserves ZERO CREDIT, until their moves cash out. 

If they're the "smartest kids in the room", their moves will pay off this year.  

If not, they can ALL kick rocks

 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

If not, they can ALL kick rocks

 

[FL_BRYANT]

I wonder why DBarlow wasn't under some kind of minimum contract somewhere. Question, is he a better ballplayer than our second round pick.  

When looking at his highlights you see size,length, lateral movement, hops, handles, good first step, driving ability, passing,  help defense, decent shot, and post moves. Question being what's he doing when he's not in the highlights.  Looks like a good development piece. I would really try to to develop his mid range  jumper both off the bounce and catch, with his length and vertical ability holding off on the three pointer until he gets the midrange jumper (not set shot) down. Seemed hesitant in shooting the midi while driving into traffic at times. His athleticism and skills look as good as many of the first rounders so my question is why did SAS just let him go and why was he just sitting there this summer with no one picking him up.

Ok development staff it looks like you've got a lot to work with let's see what you do with it because right now I don’t have a lot of faith in you. 

Ps every move the Hawks have made smells like rebuild or semi rebuild to me. As is we shouldn't expect much more next year than improvement as the season progresses. 

[Gray Mule]

Sometimes a change of teams is all that a player needs to shine.  We hope that applies to Dominick Barlow.  Murray didn't really fit with the Hawks.  This doesn't make him a lesser player.  He will look great with his new team.  This signing of DB is a very small gamble for Atlanta.  If it works out, great!  If it doesn't, so what.  I like this move!

[deester11]

11 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And how many of our 2-way contracts have panned out?

While this may be an intriguing prospect, he is just that . . . a prospect.

I was giving them credit for the Murray and Bey trades.  But that has blown up in our faces.  Their star coaching hire has a worse winning percentage with the Hawks than Nate.

 

This Front Office deserves ZERO CREDIT, until their moves cash out. 

If they're the "smartest kids in the room", their moves will pay off this year.  

If not, they can ALL kick rocks

 

Lmao. Don't say that..you'll obviously be labeled a hater because you don't agree with every move. The organization has a mediocre vibe. Until they don't. If the reverse naysayers want to think different, that's cool. No love lost. But results speak. 

If I'm the only one thinking it, so be it. I want to be wrong.  I do. But I don't see 'homerun' on anything the Hawks have done. I see...something. I don't know if it's good or bad but when the results show, I'll be the first to call myself out on it. Until then..that gif is on point!

[Packfill]

I much rather have a guy with potential upside on a two-way versus a guy like Trent Forest, so I think this is a fine move.  That said, the probability Barlow becomes a rotation player is probably low.

This seems like a Hawks team in transition.