So what exactly is our identity coming into this season?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

If only we had beat the #1 seed in the playoffs then it would have been legit. 

 That win was due to injuries of Danny Green. Kevin killed Seth plus the disappointing series of Ben Simmons in the 4th quarter. 

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 That win was due to injuries of Danny Green. Kevin killed Seth plus the disappointing series of Ben Simmons in the 4th quarter. 

We don't need to re-litigate it but if the #1 seed can't beat the #8 seed because Danny Green is out then I'd say we did pretty damn good.   We gentleman swept the Knicks when literally zero folks thought we could win the series. 

Kevin killing Seth and Simmons getting owned just sounds like we beat them to me. 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We don't need to re-litigate it but if the #1 seed can't beat the #8 seed because Danny Green is out then I'd say we did pretty damn good.   We gentleman swept the Knicks when literally zero folks thought we could win the series. 

Kevin killing Seth and Simmons getting owned just sounds like we beat them to me. 

We had multiple injuries as well.  Part of the game.

[Packfill]

19 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Clint played out of his mind that year.  Hasn't played that well anytime sense.  Not sure you can count on that specifically.  But we generally have a greater number of good quality defenders on this squad compared to that one, so the hope is we play different but still good quality defense.  

Agreed, without CC playing at a DPOY level the Hawks would not have been able to make that run in my opinion. Given the passage of time, and CC's general slide, I think it is unreasonable to expect that level of play to come back.  

I wish there were any easy way to draw a connection between the success the team had that season after the coaching change but this is a very different team, one that needs to forge its own identity and that, due to personnel changes (both on the roster and the coaching staff), the past success does not guarantee future success.

I do think this will be a transitional year as the team assimilates new players, the young guys gain experience, and hopefully the team finds an identity, so that the following season can yield real results (and if it doesn't chances are Quinn is out and there will be more roster turnover).

[NBASupes]

53 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We don't need to re-litigate it but if the #1 seed can't beat the #8 seed because Danny Green is out then I'd say we did pretty damn good.   We gentleman swept the Knicks when literally zero folks thought we could win the series. 

Kevin killing Seth and Simmons getting owned just sounds like we beat them to me. 

Danny Green was critical for a team like them which lacked experienced depth. When we had less money, injuries killed us. When we had good depth, it didn't even though he also had injuries then too if not more. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

We don't need to re-litigate it but if the #1 seed can't beat the #8 seed because Danny Green is out then I'd say we did pretty damn good.   We gentleman swept the Knicks when literally zero folks thought we could win the series. 

Kevin killing Seth and Simmons getting owned just sounds like we beat them to me. 

We went into EVERY series as an underdog.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

We had multiple injuries as well.  Part of the game.

Exactly.  Bogi had one wheel and he was critical for us.  Dre and Cam went down.  

Danny Green. GTFOH

It’s not like Milwaukee throttled us when we made it to the ECF.  That series was winnable.  

[JeffS17]

We got very favorable matchups to our PnR heavy playstyle but injuries were not a major factor for our success. 

From an ATL perspective, we just had incredible depth for that run because we had a more expensive bench than our starters due to so many rookie scale contracts (Trae/JC/Kev/Cam/Hunter/OO).  We were able to have high paid experienced vets coming off the bench in Bogi/Gallo/Lou Will.  Gallo was absolutely elite in that series and the x factor for why we won it.  We overcame multiple massive deficits because of how outclassed their bench unit was against ours.  We only had three players with a cumulative positive +/- in the series and it was Lou, Gallo, and OO.  Our bench won us the series and the front office misattributed our success to the starters and started handing out fat contracts, but don't get me started on that again

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

We got very favorable matchups to our PnR heavy playstyle but injuries were not a major factor for our success. 

From an ATL perspective, we just had incredible depth for that run because we had a more expensive bench than our starters due to so many rookie scale contracts (Trae/JC/Kev/Cam/Hunter/OO).  We were able to have high paid experienced vets coming off the bench in Bogi/Gallo/Lou Will.  Gallo was absolutely elite in that series and the x factor for why we won it.  We overcame multiple massive deficits because of how outclassed their bench unit was against ours.  We only had three players with a cumulative positive +/- in the series and it was Lou, Gallo, and OO.  Our bench won us the series and the front office misattributed our success to the starters and started handing out fat contracts, but don't get me started on that again

I agree.  and getting back on track to the topic (which i largely derailed myself) I'm hopeful that we have real depth this season.  That will be part of our identity.   It's a good sign that guys like Vit and Garrison aren't even projected to be rotation guys when they were logging a lot of minutes late last season.  

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

It's a good sign that guys like Vit and Garrison aren't even projected to be rotation guys when they were logging a lot of minutes late last season.  

It is a very good sign.  If they get minutes, hopefully it will be because they have earned them and not what we saw last season where guys regularly got minutes out of pure desperation and kept playing even when they were terrible.  Probably led to improved play by some of them in the later parts of the season, but I don't want to see us getting abysmal minutes from guys just because we don't have depth.

[JeffS17]

15 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agree.  and getting back on track to the topic (which i largely derailed myself) I'm hopeful that we have real depth this season.  That will be part of our identity.   It's a good sign that guys like Vit and Garrison aren't even projected to be rotation guys when they were logging a lot of minutes late last season.  

Im happy they will get fewer minutes and Im also happy their minutes are likely going to be much improved from last year

[JayBirdHawk]

35 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

We got very favorable matchups to our PnR heavy playstyle but injuries were not a major factor for our success. 

From an ATL perspective, we just had incredible depth for that run because we had a more expensive bench than our starters due to so many rookie scale contracts (Trae/JC/Kev/Cam/Hunter/OO).  We were able to have high paid experienced vets coming off the bench in Bogi/Gallo/Lou Will.  Gallo was absolutely elite in that series and the x factor for why we won it.  We overcame multiple massive deficits because of how outclassed their bench unit was against ours.  We only had three players with a cumulative positive +/- in the series and it was Lou, Gallo, and OO.  Our bench won us the series and the front office misattributed our success to the starters and started handing out fat contracts, but don't get me started on that again

In the words of @TheNorthCydeRises...play big. We did that with Gallo at the 4 with CC/OO instead of Solo.

[RedDawg#8]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll keep using that season like it legit. It wasn't. It was more BS than the bubble due to the insane scheduling. 

 

Trae and Bogi have proven to be extreme defensive liabilities together. Please no more Trae and Bogi outside of backup minutes against bench units where they either have offensive flaws or defensive flaws. 

We need to fully lean into the Trae, Zacc, and Dyson 1-3 unit with JJ at the 4. We need to become an movement team around Trae and everyone needs to be able to be defensively versatile and defend multiple positions outside of Trae. 

Respectfully, the numbers support it. The reason you can say it was a one off is because Bogi has been coming off the bench ever since.

“Men lie, women lie, numbers never lie”

Hawks are at their best with Trae and Bogi on the court. You dont have to like facts, but they tell the truth.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Respectfully, the numbers support it. The reason you can say it was a one off is because Bogi has been coming off the bench ever since.

“Men lie, women lie, numbers never lie”

Hawks are at their best with Trae and Bogi on the court. You dont have to like facts, but they tell the truth.

They are terrible on defense together. That's what the tape, data, and every statistical measure says. My issue isn't them on offense, it's defense. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

49 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They are terrible on defense together. That's what the tape, data, and every statistical measure says. My issue isn't them on offense, it's defense. 

Hawks are 125 - 115 with Bogi in the lineup.

Hawks are 102 - 94 with Bogi and Trae in the lineup

 

I'll try to see if I can find the Hawks record with Trae and Bogi as starters.

[NBASupes]

Dre looking good in the 3rd

[AHF]

Bogi and Trae have been great together every year.  Don’t know what you guys have been watching.

[JeffS17]

Bogi and Trae is a regular season combo that decimates bench units, it's not a serious back court in the playoffs

[REHawksFan]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

Bogi and Trae have been great together every year.  Don’t know what you guys have been watching.

Obviously the numbers support this assertion.  My contention is the Hawks will be better overall with a primary lineup of Trae/DD/Zacc and then the backup lineup of Kobi/Bogi/Dre.  The starters are better and the bench is better, imo.  

But it's not like the Hawks are subbing 5 in and 5 out.  They all play together.  If Trae avgs 36 min and Bogi 30 min (last year's numbers) and even if you assume Kobi is playing (with Bogi) every minute that Trae sits, that's still just 12 minutes.  So Bogi and Trae would be on the court together for 18 min per game.  And Quin can probably work is to that it is even more if Kobi doesn't play the full 12 or something.  

Edited 11 hours ago by REHawksFan

[macdaddy]

 

Trae/Bogi net+3,  defrtg 114

DJ/Bogi net +1, defrg 114

Trae/DJ net -6, defrtg 121